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Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

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Sharky

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:mario2:

-4: :dedede:
-3: :metaknight: :snake: :falco:
-2: :diddy: :popo: :pit: :kirby2: :marth: :fox: :wolf:

These are what I believe to be Mario's real bad match-ups. Only characters Mario has an avantage against for sure are Falcon and Yoshi. Ganon, Zelda, Link and Puff are somewhere between 0 and +1 for Mario.

Ganon doesn't lose vs Mario, Luigi and Falcon imho.

:059:
ummm right.
 

8Bitman

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Honestly, it could be even.

Offstage - ROB has the advantage, but I don't feel as though it is extremely significant.

His fair works very well at pressuring us because of our terrible airdodge and floaty weight, as well as his u-air and nair which work on killing us or keeping us up there. He does a great job on reading our parasol, peach bomb, and or float because of the lengthy amount of time he is able to stay offstage with Peach and the extremely deceptive duration of his bair. He also has two great projectiles to shoot at her to disable some of her recovery options. You really want to focus on abusing Peach's terrible airdodge by continuously sending her in the air. This is where ROB excels in the matchup.

Onstage - Peach has the advantage.

ROB has a pretty poor blindspot against Peach's dair and his stature doesn't help his case against our dair either. Our ground floated nairs and bairs cover a lot of his rolling options due to his size and mobility. We have a more mobile projectile and can pressure his shield with ease.

Counterpicking is fairly even, but I feel as though Peach can work Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise a bit more efficiently.

Halberd would probably be your best bet as a counterpick against Peach.
I completely agree with your opinion, except for the fluid Item part. Honestly I feel R.O.B's Gyro is much better than Peach's Turnips... I mean unless of course you are pulling out Bombs and Sabers every two seconds. But I feel Turnips aren't as, useful as R.O.B's Gyro is to him. This is why I said +1 for R.O.B. It definitely isn't a strong Advantage over Peach but from playing many Peaches, I just feel if R.O.B is aggressive enough up close his Fair MAKES it a +1. IMO R.O.B's Laser and his Fair are his best moves in this MU.

I catch you when you jump every time with Laser, which slows you down in trying to gain momentum. And my Fair has soo much range, and speed.

If I had to give it the numbers, I would say 55/45 R.O.B. But then again this is high level play, and it is my Opinion from EXP. Just saying. =)
 

Kewkky

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>>Implying I can see what DM does in the backroom.
>>Implying you started disliking him when the chart was released.


You are aware of this but the chart is private until it's released right?
You knew the chart has been in construction for quite some time, Zigsta made sure the community knew. It was no secret either, non-BBR members were all told and some participated in it. We even mentioned it many times in the V1.0 thread.


Lol sis I already do, anyone who's used Zelda twice within the last year reps Zelda more than him.
Well babe, this proves my point as to you not being man enough to step up and step him down by joining the BBR as the Zelda pro.


The BBR is private, idg why you act like you don't know this.
It's sort of impossible for me to contribute when I can't even see these discussions.
How about this:
1) go to the BBR thread and look at the Zelda mains.
2) if you find one suitable, you're done. If you don't, apply for the BBR and rep Zelda.
3) ???
4) profit.

So much for needing to check out the BBR. You have a buffet of info in front of you but you don't want to eat it because it's not chewed beforehand.


Well I guess Marc is just a flop for making these choices
I don't understand how you can think someone who doesn't even play the game anymore is an appropriate panel leader.
Says a guy who can't step up his forum game. Keep complaining all you want; if no Zelda main wants to join the BBR, then you blame yourself as a lazy Zelda main and not the BBR. That's just stupid and I get the feeling you can't understand why it's stupid.

Notice he's not here defending himself, because hes INACTIVE.
Funny thing, that... His last post made was today, you just can't see it because you don't have access. Seems to me he just doesn't know you think he's a worthless player (that IS what you're saying). Think twice before you throw out accusations like that. >_>


Also, this was a very immature way of handling something you dislike. Just saying, it's not helping your case. All it looks like to me is that you're either jealous of DM, or you're trolling. Either way, both immature choices.
 

PMC66

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i'm sorry i think you guys need a better system of voting how is Snake even with Ice climbers? I thought marth even with Pika was dumb enough.
 

-LzR-

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This is not 08 anymore. You must have overslept for 2 years. Most people think it's even now. Deal with it.
 

Cassius.

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I actually think the voting system was fine enough, and it was the best, and probably only way to solve certain matchups (I'm not talking about Snake vs. ICs)

:phone:
 

Alphicans

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^ This. I've heard some ICs think it's in their favour, which I think I might agree with. Don't bash the chart when it's you who needs to get better.

Whoops. In response to lzr obviously.
 

Alphicans

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Suppose that was for sure true, would that really make up for kirby getting dominated onstage? Plus, wouldn't marth also be able to **** kirby off stage?
 

SaveMeJebus

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Suppose that was for sure true, would that really make up for kirby getting dominated onstage? Plus, wouldn't marth also be able to **** kirby off stage?
Kirby doesn't really get destroyed onstage. He only has problems when he is the one being forced to approach. Offstage, Marth can't really do much if Kirby recovers high.
 

-LzR-

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Yeah, Kirby is unique, he can edgeguard Marth. No one else is able to do that since Marth has a really versatile and long recovery.
 

VibeSlyph

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Even though I agree Marth/Kirby is potentially even, I'm just gonna say that.

Marth can do a lot if Kirby recovers high. Unless it's like ridiculously high, in which case they probably used all of their jumps to get there, so we can just get in dat *** when they're landing.

I don't have any problems getting edgeguarded by kirbies, unless I do something stupid. I think it's (Almost) 50/50 for different reasons.
 

Peachy-Desu

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Yeah, Kirby is unique, he can edgeguard Marth. No one else is able to do that since Marth has a really versatile and long recovery.
Umm.. I think MK and to some extent Peach can also pressure marth offstage. MK for the obv fact that he's mk. Peach has turnips + float stalling to bait marth to do things. She also has a few options to hit him offstage if he ends up recovering on the stage. So I'm pretty other other characters mains could also argue that they could edgeguard him to... but I dunno. :x
 

Shaya

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West Coast:
Marth loses to every Kirby and Sonic main that ever existed.

East Coast:
Marth and Kirby mains are all like "Marth is +4 on kirby"

:(
TIS BEEN LIKE THIS SINCE ANTIQUITY.

Personally, I used to hold the opinion that Kirby was even, he gays Marth so hard in a lot of ways. BUT, I think the MU improved for Marth since then (in terms of how people play it). Potentially still even.
 

hichez50

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It is not important that west coast and east coast differ. IT is all about who is using marth and kirby.
 

BSP

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Wrong actually.

Sonic loses 11/-1 to Marth because he has hitboxes and can grab
 

hichez50

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A character can win consistently with a small disadvantage. IMO. I don't know why that can't be possible.
 

Dakpo

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FD is good for olimar as well. PS2 is...a mystery for me.

Lylat is a good oli stage because the tilts don't mess him up as much as the rest of the cast and the platform placement makes his juggling game very strong. I can't imagine ZSS likes lylat much.
Items **** olimar on FD if they are not super careful and it diminishes his camping game since there are no platforms to hide under. But lylat doesnt really mess with zss to much.
 
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itt: people continue to dramatically overrate marth's mus even after mikehaze says they're not good or loses to said characters

Because, like tools and stuff. Marth has a sword so it must be +1 Marth.
LOLLLL
 
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I don't understand how you can think someone who doesn't even play the game anymore is an appropriate panel leader.
I don't play the game anymore, but I'm a panel leader. Being a panel leader isn't so much about being the best with your character or playing the game, so much as it is about leadership and organization. Being in the panel requires that you at least know a lot about your character, but being a panel leader just requires you to be a good leader. Leaders should be active, organized, good at decision making, and dedicated to the project so you can get things done for your panel.
 

Flayl

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Well the last 3 MKs he lost to were M2K, Tyrant and Havok those are among the best.
 

Cassio

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I was just referring to SoCal's MKs in general. NY/NJ has the best MKs IMO. but still.
NY/NJ only has two good MKs in the first place, lol. People overrate MK.

Mike goes back and forth with everyone except tyrant, who he beats on occasion. But theres only 2 MKs in the US at his level or better anyways.
 

Steam

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okay then, so Mikehaze usually loses against really good MKs, making -1 a good ratio.

making shaya wrong.
 

Judo777

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Haha people are gonna be mad at me, but I still think Sonic has the second worst moveset in the game lol. But his mobility makes up for it a lot.
 

Neon!

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As anyone can see DK's ratios are probably the most pessimistic in the chart.

Here is a more optimistic (and probably realistic) look at how DK's matchups should look.

:snake: 0
:dedede: -3
:gw: 0
:pit: -1
:wolf: 0
:kirby: +1
:fox: -1
:sonic: 0
:ness2: +3
 
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