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Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

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-LzR-

-LzR-

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Marth, the character everyone and their dog uses but only a few can actually use him well.
 
Nike.

Nike.

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Alot of people think his matchup spread and tier list placing is overrated.
I disagree.
However, with literally every good Marth attending Apex (first time all the good ones are at a single event), it's gonna finally settle the results debate.
 
Xubble

Xubble

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I've been looking for a new secondary/co-main to go with my D3, and Marth has been catching my eye.

Not that I wanna bandwagon on the Marth train. I just like his defensive game against the rest of the cast. >_>
 
Xubble

Xubble

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My issue with Marth before was that I wasn't good at spacing.

Now I'm somewhat decent at spacing. Soooooo yeah. :D
 
~ Gheb ~

~ Gheb ~

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Nike, if you say you disagree with Marth being overrated you basically say that Olimar and ICs are not better than him. While a case on him being better than Olimar can be made [and the majority would likely agree with it] it's almost impossible to make a valid argument on him being better than ICs. 6th is the highest spot I can realistically see Marth in, everything beyond that would be deluded imho. I'd say anything within 6th - 8th is a reasonable placing for him.

:059:
 
C.J.

C.J.

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Gheb_01 said:
Nike, if you say you disagree with Marth being overrated you basically say that Olimar and ICs are not better than him. While a case on him being better than Olimar can be made [and the majority would likely agree with it] it's almost impossible to make a valid argument on him being better than ICs. 6th is the highest spot I can realistically see Marth in, everything beyond that would be deluded imho. I'd say anything within 6th - 8th is a reasonable placing for him.

:059:
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The argument for/against IC being better than Marth I think comes down to the starter list. 5 stages, IC are better. 7 I'm not so sure. 9 Marth is better. Flossing, Marth is better imo.
 
Nidtendofreak

Nidtendofreak

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*nods*

ICs have a lot bigger stage problems than Marth. If you're considering the Recommended Ruleset, you can make the argument that Marth > ICs.
 
Nike.

Nike.

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What they just said. I've actually hopped on the Oli/IC's bandwagon and wouldn't have a problem with them higher on the next list. I guess my previous statement was aimed more towards wario/pika.

Actually, know that I think about it, IC's are going to **** at Apex lol.

Gheb, how many from Japan do you expect to place in the top8 at Apex?
 
~ Gheb ~

~ Gheb ~

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Nike. said:
Gheb, how many from Japan do you expect to place in the top8 at Apex?
Click to expand...
Top 8 at Apex is a really outstanding achievement and given the level of competition it's impossible to say anything for sure. Nietono not placing in the top 8 would surprise me though and if Kakera keeps his ICs in shape and knows when to use them he has a shot as well. Otori will be extremely slept on but once he's progressed further in the bracket people will stop doing so. Often it's just a question of whom you face in bracket. Rain / Kakera will place disappointingly if they think that doing MK dittos is a good idea but they will do very well against ICs / Olimar. And then there's Brood ofc ... I'd say 2 japanese in the top 8 seems to be a rather safe assumption. Nietono, Kakera / Otori, Brood and Rain [if he uses Falco] have the skill to place top 8 [in that order].

:059:
 
Nike.

Nike.

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Gheb_01 said:
Top 8 at Apex is a really outstanding achievement and given the level of competition it's impossible to say anything for sure. Nietono not placing in the top 8 would surprise me though and if Kakera keeps his ICs in shape and knows when to use them he has a shot as well. Otori will be extremely slept on but once he's progressed further in the bracket people will stop doing so. Often it's just a question of whom you face in bracket. Rain / Kakera will place disappointingly if they think that doing MK dittos is a good idea but they will do very well against ICs / Olimar. And then there's Brood ofc ... I'd say 2 japanese in the top 8 seems to be a rather safe assumption. Nietono, Kakera / Otori, Brood and Rain [if he uses Falco] have the skill to place top 8 [in that order].

:059:
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I've only recently been hearing about Otori. I think you made a post awhile back how he's one of the top3 MK's in Japan now, but I feel ignorant for not knowing who he is :(

January can't come soon enough.
 
da K.I.D.

da K.I.D.

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As far as I know Otori has been getting top placings for a very long time now.

Its just that he uses MK so nobody cares.

Pretty much anytime you see a Japanese player beating an MK in one of those "holy crap _____ character is amazing because I saw ____ player stomp a really good Mk with him" videos, the mk is usually otori lol.
 
Ishiey

Ishiey

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Honestly, I feel like there's a fairly evident gap between Wario/Pika and the rest of top tier. Not to say that they don't belong in top tier, but definitely the bottom two in my eyes. Unless D3 somehow makes his way back up there once MK's banned, that is.

:059:
 
~ Gheb ~

~ Gheb ~

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Nike. said:
I've only recently been hearing about Otori. I think you made a post awhile back how he's one of the top3 MK's in Japan now, but I feel ignorant for not knowing who he is :(
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He could be argued to be their best MK although it's really hard to tell whether he's better than El or not. In any case he's their best MK in the ditto by far and will probably stomp on US MKs who are overconfident in their skill at the MK ditto and underrate the japanese MKs. Since he's also good vs Olimar [he's taken sets off Nietono] vs ICs [he literally made his brother Kakera quit attempting ICs vs MK on anything other than FD] and vs Diddy Kong, he's going to do pretty well at Apex.

da K.I.D. said:
As far as I know Otori has been getting top placings for a very long time now.

Its just that he uses MK so nobody cares.

Pretty much anytime you see a Japanese player beating an MK in one of those "holy crap _____ character is amazing because I saw ____ player stomp a really good Mk with him" videos, the mk is usually otori lol.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's kinda true. Since he usually places 3rd or 4th the vids you'll see are often the one's of him losing in some finals. Most people that saw him play know he's really good though.

:059:
 
DUB

DUB

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Kakera is considered best IC in Japan? I've seen 9B play the MK matchup a few times. He's really conservative and always protected his options vs MK. The MK was El though. I'd expect big things from him at APEX.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

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@ Doc King's stupid infinites, No one is going to fall for that stupid slope infinite once they know about it, The pivot infinite is near impossible to do and is only legit at higher percents and this is only going to make his already good match up better. It's not going to do anything for his horrible match ups

@The Japan argument, I don't think any American Diddys are going to want to run into Otori in bracket. Ally is now going to be harder to take out since he has so many characters now so I'm not too sure if it is going to be as easy for Brood this time around. If Kakara really practices using the Apex stage list, I don't think he will do that bad.
 
~ Gheb ~

~ Gheb ~

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Hitler should've raged about all the other match-ups staying +1 for Marth. Pika as even would've been legit.

Fun video though, especially the name drops of Steam and Doc King :bee:

:059:
 
phi1ny3

phi1ny3

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Pezza said:
It's not training mode. Note the stale dthrow, the score display and the replay load screen at the end of the video.

That said I have no idea why it is in slow motion unless it was filmed deliberately like that.
Click to expand...
Slow Brawl under Custom game modifiers? (you know, the ones where you can set curry, heavy, flower, metal, invisible, etc.)

Edit: video was gdlk
 
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