Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Thino]

You see the problem is, nothing will ever be literally unbeatable.
Unless it was like as soon as the match starts, the game goes to the results screen on the first frame and MK is named the victor. Or something like that.

What degree of "beatable" would his planking have to be for it to be acceptable or unacceptable? Because I can guarantee you not every "shade" of the word beatable is the same. At a certain point you cross the line of what's reasonable to expect someone to have to go through to beat something when doing all of this won't even guarantee some accurate or desirable test of skill. Oh MK only 8-2's the cast instead of 100-0 when he gets to plank, we should still allow it and let it kill the game. No screw that.

How exactly do you draw this line?
How do you guys decide that its at 8-2 and not 100-0 that a character is beatable or not? arbitrarily?

But the wrong options from the edge tend to still be incredibly strong due to position/invincibility he gets, and doing a wrong option doesn't mean the other guy is or would reasonably be capable of punishing it.

If you say it this way, it makes it look like MK's planking is unbeatable since even if he messes up, he cannot be punished for it.

What about over-centralization? MK allowed to endlessly plank at the VERY least heavily degrades the game and would easily turn the game into not only heavy MK usage but heavy planking. Would that not be bannable or in need of a limit despite being some "slim" degree of beatable?

There's nothing wrong about over-centralization except variety considerations IMO, it's in the domain of personal tastes whether it "degrades" the game or not.

That is in NO WAY bannable or in need of a limit, unless people give in in the players wishes NOT to play a certain way (planking) or not to see a certain character winning over and over (MK) and this is exactly what the URC did.

Something that is beatable has no reason to be banned or nerfed.

Same thing with other characters' planking. It's not unbeatable but it could centralize the game around ledge play. If they remove the LGL, then they should also legalize stages with walk offs

What IS wrong with centralizing the game around ledge play, competitive-wise and leaving the "boring" and "that's not what the game is about" and "the goal is to take all stocks" arguments outside?

 

[Judo777]

Why would it matter if TKD was a character specific top level player or an overall top level payer when using him as an example of the Fox vs. MK match up?

Zeaton is considered a top Fox player. His loses against MK should count

Maybe hes really a top fox player and is just extremely abnormally good at the MK MU and would therefore be an outlier. So is TKD and Trevonte. It's not too strange to have 3 outliers.

 

[Flayl]

3 outliers is really pushing it considering the size of the fox player base.

 

[Tommy_G]

Pro-ban logic: Any kind of information of a player that disproves my logic is an outlier and should not be counted.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I like how people assume that their side is the only one that doesnt have hardheaded ignorant people on it.

 

[DMG]

What's funnier is when 1 person of that faction doesn't realize it himself.

Tommy G: Kind of broad statements since 1990

 

[freetibet10]

Brawl is wack

 

[Judo777]

3 outliers is really pushing it considering the size of the fox player base.

Well I wasn't being serious. however if you ask me, the fact that there are in fact only 3 known fox players points more toward them being exceptional than the opposite idea.

Anti-ban Logic: Any kind of information that disproves my opinion should be ignored, proceed to talk about how he will never get banned and that the thread should be locked.......oh yea I almost forgot, get better.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If there really was a character who went even with or even beat MK, people would actually use said character.

Its simple as that.

 

[Conviction]

Don't people use Metaknight?

 

[Judo777]

Don't people use Metaknight?

What do you know! MK goes even with MK!

Rule of thumb, if a character goes relatively even with MK (like even reasonably close) a lot of people will play him.

 

[Gnes]

Lmao @ at people trying to defend planking.

 

[Eddie G]

M2K vs Gnes yeah we seen dawg.

But they sure didn't...

 

[Conviction]

24% didn't.

@Judo: XD

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Defending MK's planking: Stupid.
Defending other character's planking: Logical.

 

[Conviction]

Defending MK at this time and point (well it always has been): Stupid.

 

[Thino]

Lmao @ at people trying to defend planking.

M2K vs Gnes yeah we seen dawg.

But they sure didn't...

24% didn't.

@Judo: XD

Defending MK's planking: Stupid.
Defending other character's planking: Logical.

Defending MK at this time and point (well it always has been): Stupid.

You guys are really good at arguing and making points.

 

[Eddie G]

You guys are really good at arguing and making points.

I'd rather be direct and brief than spend a good amount of time arguing in circles about the obvious. It's that simple.

 

[Thino]

I'd rather be direct and brief than spend a good amount of time arguing in circles about the obvious. It's that simple.

The "obvious" eh..

okay I understand then.

 

[Cassio]

smh at "the obvious". Boys and girls this is why we dont rely on public opinion with things that matter. By that list of quotes we see people care more about bullying their personal opinion over being correct. God help us, lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We've argued the point billions of times in the past, no need to reiterate and get told that Pikachu can beat MK's planking >_>

 

[Cassio]

1) appealing to the obvious =/= arguing. People who appeal to the obvious are a)stupid or b)know theyre wrong.
2) the response to pikas antiplanking ability was more or less "Nuh uh!". Not that I care if people want to hold onto this belief, but you cant claim there was some earth shattering argument about this that didnt exist.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

For good reason.

 

[Mekos]

M2K vs Gnes yeah we seen dawg.

But they sure didn't...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miH3MHzKizs

Lol what!? M2k is going so aggro this match. He isn't even doing any of the so called "broken" stuff yall are talking about. He is just playing well. Getting reads, cutting off options, forcing his opponent to play his game, etc.

He approaching most of the time from what I see. But no matter what m2k does yall will blame it on mk and say mk needs to be banned. Cuz Fyi no other mk is on m2k's level and does the stuff he does. Really yall want m2k banned lol.

 

[Ripple]

m2k should have been banned from tournaments months ago (possibly even over a year) for all the **** he put some people through.

Also more anti ban logic: the only reason we are banning MK is because we want m2k banned/gone

 

[da K.I.D.]

imo, the fact that any character is as good as m2k makes him is bannable. but thats just me.


@ ripple, are you talking about in game stuff, if so I disagree.
If youre talking about outside of game factors, then you may have a case.

 

[_Kain_]

1) appealing to the obvious =/= arguing. People who appeal to the obvious are a)stupid or b)know theyre wrong.
2) the response to pikas antiplanking ability was more or less "Nuh uh!". Not that I care if people want to hold onto this belief, but you cant claim there was some earth shattering argument about this that didnt exist.

Yes but you keep trying to imply that u've dealt with said tactic or have had an MK TRY TO TIME YOU OUT

That's the problem with most of you people arguing about MK's planking not being that bad. Not even M2K planks all the way, he admitted he tried not to time people out yesterday. Even though he planks pretty bad at times he still only does it ultimately to give himself an opening onstage, not to timeout. He more or less timeouts out when he doesn't know how to fight a character, or what do you know? When the clock is getting close to running out.

Go play a really good MK. Tell him to plank you til you get timed out. Til then. Please don't speak as if you think it's not unbeatable. Cause a MK coming back onstage, when he has the lead, isn't doing the planking right.

 

[Ripple]

This surprises me. Kain, I thought you were antiban.

Or are you anti but for LGL?

 

[_Kain_]

This surprises me. Kain, I thought you were antiban.

Or are you anti but for LGL?

The 2nd. Moreso for a universal LGL for all characters just cause it's my preference to not play at the ledge all day or watch others play at the ledge all day.

Just can't believe of all the matches people have seen of planking and how hard it is to even land a hit, or intentionally get them back onstage without them actually doing it themselves. Like, I don't think I've ever seen a MK get forced to get back onstage, they willingly go ALL THE TIME, unless like I said, the clock is running out

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@Kid: does the term "player skill" mean anything to you? I mean, we could obviously say that anyone who makes Fei Long as good as Fuudo does in AE points to the character being broken, but that's nonsensical–other people just have to step up their ****ing games.

@Grim: Poor logic on the fox point. Some characters are niche, have underdeveloped metagames, or just have enough matchups in the realm of "really ****ing stupid" that they don't see much use. Fox falls in most of those categories.

 

[John12346]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miH3MHzKizs

Lol what!? M2k is going so aggro this match. He isn't even doing any of the so called "broken" stuff yall are talking about. He is just playing well. Getting reads, cutting off options, forcing his opponent to play his game, etc.

He approaching most of the time from what I see. But no matter what m2k does yall will blame it on mk and say mk needs to be banned. Cuz Fyi no other mk is on m2k's level and does the stuff he does. Really yall want m2k banned lol.

Wrong match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHQZBcLb5Z8

 

[Cassio]

@kid, tyrant actually made a good point about what M2Ks done with MK. Stating MK isnt overpowered, MK with asperengers is overpowered. Who knows what limits other characters could be pushed to when youre capable of sitting in a room by yourself playing with CPUs for hours and hours without losing focus.

Ripple I think you didnt get Mekos point.

Yes but you keep trying to imply that u've dealt with said tactic or have had an MK TRY TO TIME YOU OUT

That's the problem with most of you people arguing about MK's planking not being that bad. Not even M2K planks all the way, he admitted he tried not to time people out yesterday. Even though he planks pretty bad at times he still only does it ultimately to give himself an opening onstage, not to timeout. He more or less timeouts out when he doesn't know how to fight a character, or what do you know? When the clock is getting close to running out.

Go play a really good MK. Tell him to plank you til you get timed out. Til then. Please don't speak as if you think it's not unbeatable. Cause a MK coming back onstage, when he has the lead, isn't doing the planking right.

This wasnt my point at all though. People try and talk about this theoretically broken planking thats never happened, so I gave a theoretically good solution.

I'm not doing this to prove planking shouldnt be limited, only to show that differentiating between MKs planking vs planking in general isnt a matter of "broken" vs "beatable", but where you wish to draw the line.

On the topic of M2K trying not to plank at LCS, he also exhibited some of the best play hes had in quite awhile with some fairly dominating victories in comparison with his campier stategy.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

@kid, tyrant actually made a good point about what M2Ks done with MK.

Nah, he really didn't.

Unless you think Ally, Nairo, Anti, etc... all have aspergers too?

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Kain bought some fire. And to think he is so quiet in person.

 

[Sync.]

m2k beat trela with 5 seconds left on the clock the only reason it wasnt a timeout is because trela ran offstage and tried to dair him (he couldnt him otherwise) resulting in a shuttleoop that sent him to the other side he then got dsmashed with like 5 seconds left.

People think that just because someone didnt time a person out that they didnt try to when in actuality the othe person would rather just get killed than timed out.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Its not that they'd rather get killed than get timed out, its that they need to approach recklessly to increase their chances of winning from 1%.

 

[Eddie G]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miH3MHzKizs

Lol what!? M2k is going so aggro this match. He isn't even doing any of the so called "broken" stuff yall are talking about. He is just playing well. Getting reads, cutting off options, forcing his opponent to play his game, etc.

He approaching most of the time from what I see. But no matter what m2k does yall will blame it on mk and say mk needs to be banned. Cuz Fyi no other mk is on m2k's level and does the stuff he does. Really yall want m2k banned lol.

What match were you watching? Lol it's so obvious how he abused the system yet again with his stupid *** character.

John#s referenced the correct match, go watch it then get back to me with your same argument.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Really yall want m2k banned lol.

Mission accomplished!

 

[Judo777]

Wrong match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHQZBcLb5Z8

Dude like never at any point in that whole game was M2K even playing for longer than 3 seconds. He was like "I don't know what to do, dair dair dair dair, NADO!!!! I still don't know what to do NADO!!!!!!! Hm still no clue but he'll never expect dair dair LAND dair dair NADO!!!!!!"

 

[Sinister Slush]

Really yall want m2k banned lol.

Haha, No.

Mission accomplished!

Banning MK is basically banning M2K unless he still wants to play brawl and goes King D3 again.