Feelings on MK and the MK ban after Apex

[Kimidori]

I cp frigate all the time as lucario

And of course mk isn't that much of a problem when the game is limited to 3 stages that play much differently than the others. The problem is clearly mk when he's the only one that "breaks" the stages. The current stage list has been shown to be easy to adapt to and balanced. Yes everyone has to use their ban on rc against certain characters... Just like they all have to ban fd against the likes of falco and ice climbers.

Kimi- fd gives an unfair advantage to ground based characters. It's one of two stages without platforms in the game. Ban please.

There also is no walk off on brinstar

And water is not a reason to ban a stage.

D3 does not auto win on castle, it's easy to just air camp the 2nd transformation as anyone

Sharking is a mk only issue.

Halberd weapons give you several years to react.

Nothing is wrong with acid ruining Cgs, Lylat can do it, so can ps1.

Everything about frigate is hilariously stupid. Learn to adapt please.

Stage interference is something inherent to smash. We ban stages when they interfere at random without ample time to react, have serious balance issues, or have a ******** risk reward related to some hazard (a centralizing strategy)

You say FD gives an "UNFAIR" advantage to ground based characters. Well it doesn't lmao. Just because there are no platforms to camp on doesn't mean it gives characters like IC's an unfair advantage. If anything, it's a really small one. I didn't say Brinstar has a walkoff. I didn't say water was a reason to ban it. I said it was a little interfering. I ALSO didn't say D3 gets "auto win" on anything. I meant he wins a stock, as I posted earliar. Sharking is an MK dominant issue. Many characters can rise through the platforms and attack. Halberd weapons can still interfere. Bombs can kill. And it's still possible to get your opponent into these weapons. Ruining CG's is ruining characters. If CG's are the reason IC's are good, then there shouldn't be stages that stop them from that. It's the character they are. Some stages interfere with gameplay. Basically all the ones I listed. Lylat doesn't mess with CG's, sure it tilts, but it's nothing that completely screws them over like Acid or scrolling stages, or even a flipping stage. PS1 is the same. And obviously you don't want to reach a compromise unless all gimmicks are present so throwing it in there was mostly to keep people like you happy.

 

[Rykard]

im just highly curious what people who are pro ban think is going to happen with Metaknight gone. do you really think it is going to expand character diversity? all that will happen is that everyone who mained him will either not play anymore, which won't change a thing, or flock to a new top/high tier character that you will all complain about.

 

[Arcansi]

im just highly curious what people who are pro ban think is going to happen with Metaknight gone. do you really think it is going to expand character diversity? all that will happen is that everyone who mained him will either not play anymore, which won't change a thing, or flock to a new top/high tier character that you will all complain about.

The former is somewhat reasonable for certain people.

The latter (us complaining) is very unreasonable and you should provide proof if your going to make such claims.

Also, stumbled upon this a ton of pages back.

If your job is to objectively look at the best solution, I would not spare the character because people who played him "wasted time" or have to switch if it meant making the wrong decision.

The people making the rules don't have this job. Their job(actually, goal) is to make sure the ruleset is used everywhere, as a standard.

I'll bet you anything if everyone pro metaknight stopped coming to tournaments, and it was enough to significantly make an impact on tournament scenes, metaknight would get unbanned.

You say FD gives an "UNFAIR" advantage to ground based characters. Well it doesn't lmao. Just because there are no platforms to camp on doesn't mean it gives characters like IC's an unfair advantage. If anything, it's a really small one. [stuff] It's the character they are. [stuff]

1. Fd gives an amazing advantage to characters that can abuse it. Most characters are at a HUGE disadvantage when landing and this is further increased if you can't ever land away from your opponent. Add to this the fact that grabbing is one of the best options when someone is landing near you...

2. 'It's the character they are'. And I guess akuma 'is the character he is' in sf2 turbo, right?

 

[Blue Warrior]

im just highly curious what people who are pro ban think is going to happen with Metaknight gone. do you really think it is going to expand character diversity? all that will happen is that everyone who mained him will either not play anymore, which won't change a thing, or flock to a new top/high tier character that you will all complain about.

I expect whoever is serious about winning to flock to whatever is the next best choice if they do play. If they're not good at that character, they'll choose the one after it and so on.

The thing is, with Metaknight gone, the next best choice becomes less clear. You could consider Snake (or Diddy Kong, or IC's, or whatever, depending on what you consider to be #1) the best character in MK banned tournaments, but 1) his skill:effectiveness ratio isn't as distorted as MK's and 2) competition will likely be much closer due to each top not having >=50% matchups across the board. Both of these are factors that will affect each character's usage and winning earnings. Even if there is a lead (which I'm sure there will be), it won't be nearly as grossly exaggerated as with MK.

 

[Dr. R.O.Botnik]

The reason why Nietono outplaced all the Americans was because Japanese Brawl decks American Brawl. It's not because the URC made the wrong choice, it's because they're just better at the game as a whole. And, although MK may not be as bad as the tops in Marvel 2, he still dominated the metagame and severely restricted the development of other characters, so I'm glad he's gone. Also, why is this being discussed? This topic as a whole is a giant inevitable flame war, and it's never going to be overturned, so it's also pointless to talk about.

 

[Steam]

You say FD gives an "UNFAIR" advantage to ground based characters. Well it doesn't lmao. Just because there are no platforms to camp on doesn't mean it gives characters like IC's an unfair advantage. If anything, it's a really small one. I didn't say Brinstar has a walkoff. I didn't say water was a reason to ban it. I said it was a little interfering. I ALSO didn't say D3 gets "auto win" on anything. I meant he wins a stock, as I posted earliar. Sharking is an MK dominant issue. Many characters can rise through the platforms and attack. Halberd weapons can still interfere. Bombs can kill. And it's still possible to get your opponent into these weapons. Ruining CG's is ruining characters. If CG's are the reason IC's are good, then there shouldn't be stages that stop them from that. It's the character they are. Some stages interfere with gameplay. Basically all the ones I listed. Lylat doesn't mess with CG's, sure it tilts, but it's nothing that completely screws them over like Acid or scrolling stages, or even a flipping stage. PS1 is the same. And obviously you don't want to reach a compromise unless all gimmicks are present so throwing it in there was mostly to keep people like you happy.

I'd call it an unfair advantage when it's such a unique and polar stage... Lmao

You did say brinstar had a walk off. Go back and read your post lmao

I'd assume "d3 wins" would suggest you thought it was auto win for him... But w/e

Stages Ruining Cgs is part of the game and presents strategical opportunities on said stage. Fd ruins platform camping but we don't ban it over that.

Ps1 causes grabs to drop when it transforms. Like they just instantly break out. Anyone who's played the stage a few times should know this.

News flash: stages aren't gimmicks. Diverse stages are inherent to smash's design and is something that makes the series unique. Also FYI people don't take people to frigate hoping the flip kills their opponent (only scrubs get killed that way anyways). they choose it because of design of the stage itself.

 

[Kimidori]

I'd call it an unfair advantage when it's such a unique and polar stage... Lmao

You did say brinstar had a walk off. Go back and read your post lmao

I'd assume "d3 wins" would suggest you thought it was auto win for him... But w/e

Stages Ruining Cgs is part of the game and presents strategical opportunities on said stage. Fd ruins platform camping but we don't ban it over that.

Ps1 causes grabs to drop when it transforms. Like they just instantly break out. Anyone who's played the stage a few times should know this.

News flash: stages aren't gimmicks. Diverse stages are inherent to smash's design and is something that makes the series unique. Also FYI people don't take people to frigate hoping the flip kills their opponent (only scrubs get killed that way anyways). they choose it because of design of the stage itself.

Yes, because a totally flat stage is unfair if some people can't choose where they recover (or lack the brain power to trick their opponent into missing a punish). It's called punishing for a reason, you know. Frigate has an ungrabbable edge, obviously. Tether recoveries fail on that stage for that reason. Why do you think people take Olimar to Frigate so much? Stages are almost half the matchups. How do you expect to learn matchups with distractions such as trying to keep up with the platforms and scrolling of the stage?

Also what makes uniqueness and diversity more important than skill in the game? Besides the "fun" factor of course because that's a matter of opinion.
"stages ruining cg's is a part of the game"?? That's the lamest statement I've heard yet. That shouldn't happen, because it's completely taking away what makes some characters, "some characters". But if you want to enter a match thinking; "Okay, what stage will screw over my opponents character most?", then that's fine with me. Just know you won't be getting better at the game.

 

[Orion*]

The latter (us complaining) is very unreasonable

When most of the people I see on pro ban complaining don't attend tournaments regularly or are unable to comprehend the game past an extremely basic level I seriously doubt this because it's very likely that many of these players spend more time posting and *****ing than playing the game.

Even the URC who banned MK... is made mostly of inactive or mediocre level players.

1. Fd gives an amazing advantage to characters that can abuse it. Most characters are at a HUGE disadvantage when landing and this is further increased if you can't ever land away from your opponent. Add to this the fact that grabbing is one of the best options when someone is landing near you...

1. you never explained why
2. you have to be hit in order to be landing, it's not like characters magically start off disadvantaged in the air. even saying this, both characters assuming they are viable would likely have the exact same advantage in this situation over each other, including ICs/Falco/Diddy.

2. 'It's the character they are'. And I guess akuma 'is the character he is' in sf2 turbo, right?

metaknight is not very comparable to sf2 akuma lol

I'd call it an unfair advantage when it's such a unique and polar stage... Lmao

Every stage in this game is unique so I don't really call that significant. In short I could make the argument that it's the least unique or polar stage because it is in short, the basis for all other stages in the game. FD is the most basic layout with absolutely no random events, giving absolutely no random advantages.

It simply allows character traits vs character traits to become extremely apparent. Players that don't know their matchups, or don't have the patience or followups down will get bodied there because in short they can't rely on anything but their own solid game play.

Stages Ruining Cgs is part of the game and presents strategical opportunities on said stage. Fd ruins platform camping but we don't ban it over that.

LMAO at that even being strategical though. It's more like a, "let me cp this and maybe if I get grabbed that 1/1000 time during the transformation i will break out". Unless you're planning on deciding to approach only when the stage transforms, in which case it's just telling players to run away 99% of the time and rely on the stage the few times it transforms.

It actually in many ways is LESS strategic because it requires less thought. you're essentially comparing
... "hmmm how can I break down this blizzard wall, when he does this I do this so maybe I can do this".

to

"ill camp until the stage gives me a free 50/50 approach where I won't get grabbed and the risk reward is heavily skewed in my favor"


Don't even get me wrong because I honestly think ps1 should be legal anyway. But thinking stages always =s more strategic is an absolute joke.

News flash: stages aren't gimmicks. Diverse stages are inherent to smash's design and is something that makes the series unique. Also FYI people don't take people to frigate hoping the flip kills their opponent (only scrubs get killed that way anyways). they choose it because of design of the stage itself.

no people take people to frigate and hope that when the stage changes they can get an opportunity to approach instead of actually learning to make one themselves.

stages in general aren't gimmicks no, but that doesn't mean that they don't promote or even worse have them randomly occur on a fairly regular basis regardless.

 

[-LzR-]

I'm literally dying out of laughter from reading Kimidoris posts.
He is like the Doc King of stages lmao!

 

[kailo34ce]

If kimidori ever came to texas i would totally request big blue to be legal

OMG FRIGATE WHY DO YOUR PLATFORMS MOOOOOOVE?!??!?!!!!

 

[Gea]

1. you never explained why
2. you have to be hit in order to be landing, it's not like characters magically start off disadvantaged in the air. even saying this, both characters assuming they are viable would likely have the exact same advantage in this situation over each other, including ICs/Falco/Diddy.

Not to get overly involved here, but do you honestly need someone to explain to you why platforms are so important vs ICs?

 

[Judo777]

im just highly curious what people who are pro ban think is going to happen with Metaknight gone. do you really think it is going to expand character diversity? all that will happen is that everyone who mained him will either not play anymore, which won't change a thing, or flock to a new top/high tier character that you will all complain about.

Piss so there is another character that won't have even a single even MU with MK banned (still don't personally believe ESAM on the MK MU, especially after we discussed Sheiks with Pika).

Not only is there no character that is as strong in the game as MK, but the next few in line have the very un-bat-like quality of being able to tilt MU's in their favor by picking a stage that they are bad on.

Diddy (has options like Frigate, Brinstar [if still legal], Lylat), Falco (Frigate, Lylat, Brinstar, Halberd or even Delfino possibly), IC's (Frigate, Brinstar, Transforming stages in general)

I'm starting to see a trend.......................

@Orion I'm sorry ordinarily i agree with a lot of what you say, but concerned with the Midwest. The top players in the midwest are as follows (not in any order) Lain (who now and has for a while mained MK), Shugo (who mains both Falco and MK and uses them both about equally [I actually lean more toward MK cause he relies on him heavily for games 2 and 3 alot]), MJG who main TL and uses MK for a select few MU's, Judge who up until recently has always mained MK and is still very reknowned for his MK, Kel (who mains MK tho recently he has been trying to learn new character since he forsaw the ban a LONG time ago, so hes really been out of practice lately). The midwest's top players ALL play MK. No discredit to Nicole she is amazing, however I don't believe she played any of the higher MK's in bracket at SiiS6 (I didn't play any either actually).

Also every person on Socal's PR plays MK (while not all maining him) and Tyrant, Tearbear, Havok (to a much lesser extent I'll give you) are all very reknowned for their MK's and I have personally seen a decent amount of both Mike and DEHF's MK in tournament (they are 2 of my favorite players to watch).

 

[C.J.]

In short I could make the argument that it's the least unique or polar stage because it is in short, the basis for all other stages in the game. FD is the most basic layout with absolutely no random events, giving absolutely no random advantages.

It simply allows character traits vs character traits to become extremely apparent. Players that don't know their matchups, or don't have the patience or followups down will get bodied there because in short they can't rely on anything but their own solid game play.

I don't really care about the rest, but, since every other stage has platforms, that alone makes it impossible for you to argue that FD is least unique stage. Also, it excludes some other/lowers the overall threshold for other character traits. It lowers the threshold needed for ledge trapping characters (no platforms to help them so less options to cover) however it makes bad characters on the ledge worse on the ledge from the other side I guess. So I guess that one is a wash if you want it to be. However, it does completely negate platform pressure. There's others, but I don't care enough to argue.

 

[theunabletable]

Also every person on Socal's PR plays MK (while not all maining him) and Tyrant, Tearbear, Havok (to a much lesser extent I'll give you) are all very reknowned for their MK's and I have personally seen a decent amount of both Mike and DEHF's MK in tournament (they are 2 of my favorite players to watch).

honestly, the "he also sometimes plays MK" argument is kinda silly. like, this is the one instance where i think a counter-argument comparing this to melee fox is applicable.

like ****ing everyone plays a space animal to some extent in melee

 

[Cassio]

Yeah that was kind of silly. Especially when most people use MK for the stages everyone wants to get rid of.

 

[DMG]

Mike's MK is kinda booty unless he's upgraded it significantly from the last time I saw it in action. His Marth is 5 trillion times better.

 

[Hylian]

Not to get overly involved here, but do you honestly need someone to explain to you why platforms are so important vs ICs?

I mean, I think battlefield is IC's best stage against MK, even better than FD. The platforms give IC's free grab set-ups in several different ways and let them wall mk out much easier than FD.

 

[Orion*]

Not to get overly involved here, but do you honestly need someone to explain to you why platforms are so important vs ICs?

He wasn't just talking about ICs regardless of my opinion on that, it was an extremely broad and blanket statement for the entire cast.

"Originally Posted by Arcansi
1. Fd gives an amazing advantage to characters that can abuse it. Most characters are at a HUGE disadvantage when landing and this is further increased if you can't ever land away from your opponent. Add to this the fact that grabbing is one of the best options when someone is landing near you..."

@Orion I'm sorry ordinarily i agree with a lot of what you say, but concerned with the Midwest. The top players in the midwest are as follows (not in any order) Lain (who now and has for a while mained MK), Shugo (who mains both Falco and MK and uses them both about equally [I actually lean more toward MK cause he relies on him heavily for games 2 and 3 alot]), MJG who main TL and uses MK for a select few MU's, Judge who up until recently has always mained MK and is still very reknowned for his MK, Kel (who mains MK tho recently he has been trying to learn new character since he forsaw the ban a LONG time ago, so hes really been out of practice lately). The midwest's top players ALL play MK. No discredit to Nicole she is amazing, however I don't believe she played any of the higher MK's in bracket at SiiS6 (I didn't play any either actually).

Also every person on Socal's PR plays MK (while not all maining him) and Tyrant, Tearbear, Havok (to a much lesser extent I'll give you) are all very reknowned for their MK's and I have personally seen a decent amount of both Mike and DEHF's MK in tournament (they are 2 of my favorite players to watch).

Lains MK is ***. He's not going to beat anyone oos with that **** i'll be honest. Even at apex homie LOST because he went MK.

MJG mostly relies on TL, his MK is also fairly mediocre but TL is not really a viable character without a secondary anyway. It's definitely more possible to do it with MK gone, but I don't think solo TL will be winning anything significant.

Shugo/Judge/Kel I will accept. However Kel atm is ***, as you said yourself.

It also doesn't change the fact that nicole got 2nd in your region with Peach. Like what MKs where even scary in the bracket in general that she was supposed to face LMAO? like the next best one after shugo who beat her with falco was http://www.smashboards.com/archive/index.php?t-311446.html

Mikes MK is not that good, like he even tried to switch to MK vs jash at apex after doing semi decently with marth and got 2 stocked on frigate in a 65/35 matchup vs an inactive player. I've never seen mikes MK actually significantly effect his tournament placings either.

Tearbear and havok are both MK mains, but neither are regularly winning tournaments and both are also known for playing a plethora of characters and doing well. Havok has solid tournament wins with snake/marth and he actually uses those characters to advance.

I don't really care about the rest, but, since every other stage has platforms, that alone makes it impossible for you to argue that FD is least unique stage

while I can completely agree with that point of view, but in terms of actual gameplay it really doesn't work that way. People tend to play completely differently in multiple aspects as far as ledge trapping, recovery, camping/approaching on a stage like lets say delfino in comparison to FD.

 

[GTZ]

I feel like for the competitive scene of Brawl, there needed to be a change. The MK ban in my opinion levels the playing field a lot. One of my mains is definitely lower-tier, and worst match-up is MK, so I am not complaining about the MK ban either.

 

[Steam]

Yes, because a totally flat stage is unfair if some people can't choose where they recover (or lack the brain power to trick their opponent into missing a punish). It's called punishing for a reason, you know. Frigate has an ungrabbable edge, obviously. Tether recoveries fail on that stage for that reason. Why do you think people take Olimar to Frigate so much? Stages are almost half the matchups. How do you expect to learn matchups with distractions such as trying to keep up with the platforms and scrolling of the stage?

Also what makes uniqueness and diversity more important than skill in the game? Besides the "fun" factor of course because that's a matter of opinion.
"stages ruining cg's is a part of the game"?? That's the lamest statement I've heard yet. That shouldn't happen, because it's completely taking away what makes some characters, "some characters". But if you want to enter a match thinking; "Okay, what stage will screw over my opponents character most?", then that's fine with me. Just know you won't be getting better at the game.

Funny... We've been playing these stages for years and I'm certain we'd wreck our 08/09 selves. Having to deal with stages doesn't impair your improvement, it forces you to adapt.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

When most of the people I see on pro ban complaining don't attend tournaments regularly or are unable to comprehend the game past an extremely basic level I seriously doubt this because it's very likely that many of these players spend more time posting and *****ing than playing the game.

I can say I have researched some people and seen how well they place or play the game. A lot more people actually openly play than your actually giving credit to, practice the game, that is another story all together, but playing, yeah almost everyone who visits here play it.

Even the URC who banned MK... is made mostly of inactive or mediocre level players

This is irrelevant.

 

[Kimidori]

Funny... We've been playing these stages for years and I'm certain we'd wreck our 08/09 selves. Having to deal with stages doesn't impair your improvement, it forces you to adapt.

Well of course you're going to get good at the game from playing, but at this point there won't be much advancement at all. ESPECIALLY with MK gone. Getting better from playing is a given, even with items on. You just won't have much skill in the game if you focus on counterpicking stages. Also, we shouldn't have to adapt to stages in the first place. You don't have to adapt to SV, BF, or FD. Being forced to adapt to stages will distract you and limit your chances at getting better at the game.

 

[Roller]

Lains MK is ***. He's not going to beat anyone oos with that **** i'll be honest. Even at apex homie LOST because he went MK.

No, he lost because he literally only works, sleeps, and plays LoL now. He has not come to a single smashfest since ~July. His wii is at someone else's house, and he has literally 0 access to it. He never plays anymore.

The last time he entered an OoS tourney while having practiced at all beforehand that I remember was SiiS (5 I think), at which he got 3rd going ONLY metaknight. 1st was M2K, 2nd was Ally. Lain's mk is definitely a force to be reckoned with when he actually plays the game.

/hopsoffhis****

 

[B.A.M.]

LOL Arcansi is trying to debate thats too funny.

@ C.J: FD is the one of the few stages where scenarios between opponent a vs. opponent b can be created without massive interference from the stage.


People need to come to terms that Brawl is grossly different that the previous Smashes and you cant just pick stages with the same reasoning. FD makes you actually deal with character traits entirely; you cant hope for a stage can to lessen the strength of a tactic.

And of course everyone has a pocket MK in this game; hes the top character period. The problem is, is that our ruleset amplifies his particular qualities. RC, Brinstar, even Delfino (tho it is definitely the less of the 3 and with a stage ban I think its fine) all allow MK to practically negate other characters strengths completely. I mean seriously, based on how brawl is, how the hell could someone even THINK that Rainbow would make ANY sense? I mean you got P-1 in URC talking about hes master of RC with Diddy; thats freakin stupid. Even Jiggs will gimp that hoe.

In a game of VERY weak punishes aside from ICs and some MU specific stuff, the stagelist is critical. Why? because ANY STAGE THAT CAN ALLOWS YOU TO THINK LESS IS AMAZING, when you have to make consecutive reads to kill an opponent in brawl. The thing is if people actually look at the damn sets, you realize that even when MK wins, the opponent playing a non MK character does well until some stupid stage pops up and an top level MK walks away with the W. Its not like these non-MK top players were getting bodied, they just fell victim to our stupid *** CP system THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT SINCE DAY 1. But people always forget that, ppl just know an MK one and the walk away complaining.

If Jason got that last hit on Ocean and beat him, we would hear 'ahhh MK is soooo broken, look at what happened.' How stupid is that? I mean you have people saying that theres nothing wrong with US because an MK won. THE TOP MK AS OF RIGHT NOW WHO PRACTICED HIS *** OFF TO BEAT SOMEONE WHO DECIMATES HIM CONSISTENTLY. Everyone needs to look at EVERY MATCH, and see whats up.

Heck thats the same reasoning ppl are using to say Europe is booty, when theyre clearly not. A Marth going toe to toe with Larry isnt garbage. Neither is a Marth/Peach going game 3 last stock with Gnes. Are people really that deluded that they cant see anything wrong with the paradigms we've embraced in the US over the years?



@ Steam: LOL so how should Olimar adapt to having no recovery on the right? Hey if I ever play you, let me break your arm first. So you can adapt. Cuz obviously that isnt impairment. Freakin stupid. YOU ADAPT BECAUSE YOU ARE CURRENTLY IMPAIRED. Freakin think before you type. Why would u adapt up less you are in an unfavorable position. Cutting off a recovery is huge. You think Marth having to straight up B isnt easier to punish than playing the ledge game with him? You think it doesnt require less thought? Come on dude.

 

[DMG]

Lain MK in teams is booty. In singles it randomly shifts from "Wtf M2K junior" to "I saw some **** in 09, here's my take on it"

 

[swordgard]

I mean, I think battlefield is IC's best stage against MK, even better than FD. The platforms give IC's free grab set-ups in several different ways and let them wall mk out much easier than FD.

This. And its just so much easier to protect nana overall.

 

[xDD-Master]

Free mk!!!

 

[C.J.]

while I can completely agree with that point of view, but in terms of actual gameplay it really doesn't work that way. People tend to play completely differently in multiple aspects as far as ledge trapping, recovery, camping/approaching on a stage like lets say delfino in comparison to FD.

Gameplay-wise you certainly have a case and I can certainly agree. As to stage layout, it's inarguable as to its uniqueness.

Also, it still doesn't test platform pressure. Battlefield da bess stage ever!

@ C.J: FD is the one of the few stages where scenarios between opponent a vs. opponent b can be created without massive interference from the stage.

i am aware.. that was my point. The fact that it is one of sofew stages inherently makes it more "unique" since the vast majority don't follow that guideline.

 

[Orion*]

I feel like for the competitive scene of Brawl, there needed to be a change.

yeah...

an attitude one LMAO

Funny... We've been playing these stages for years and I'm certain we'd wreck our 08/09 selves.

no ****, if you didnt get any better at the game in like 4 years you should cut yourself. literally.

I can say I have researched some people and seen how well they place or play the game. A lot more people actually openly play than your actually giving credit to, practice the game, that is another story all together, but playing, yeah almost everyone who visits here play it.

Maybe im not clear when i say play the game.

like my ex gf spending time ****ing around with bowser =/= learning/studying/actively playing in the determination of getting better.

i know plenty of people who have played brawl for literally nonstop hours. but they suck because they either

A. have no knowledge on how to become better, aka they don't study
B. they don't care
C. they dont practice/focus they just play to play

i literally played melee since the day it came out, but all of those hours and hours of countless gaming that I put in don't reflect the same as like the occasional Focused 15 minutes every few months that i put into the game. Having a serious competitive, or even just simply focused mindset definitely makes a large difference.

This is irrelevant.

Is it really?
If the panel was made up of like 6 m2ks and they said no bad would you honestly be satisfied or respect that decision? regardless of my stance on the opinion I don't think I would...

No, he lost because he literally only works, sleeps, and plays LoL now. He has not come to a single smashfest since ~July. His wii is at someone else's house, and he has literally 0 access to it. He never plays anymore.

The last time he entered an OoS tourney while having practiced at all beforehand that I remember was SiiS (5 I think), at which he got 3rd going ONLY metaknight. 1st was M2K, 2nd was Ally. Lain's mk is definitely a force to be reckoned with when he actually plays the game.

/hopsoffhis****

He did significantly better vs Sky w/ ICs than with MK.
Him beating shugo/atomsk and mjgs TL (garbage matchup) to get 3rd in an event 8 months ago suddenly doesn't make homie some magical force that will win tournaments with metaknight. don't get me wrong lain is a great player, but his MK is not gonna beat gnes/razer/larry/mike/adhd/esam/whatever, where his ICs could if he's playing his best.

him not practicing is also not a legit john, but irregardless... that moreso proves my point. ICs take MUCH more constant practice than MK does and the fact that he did so much poorer with metaknight kinda makes me lol.

I mean seriously, based on how brawl is, how the hell could someone even THINK that Rainbow would make ANY sense? I mean you got P-1 in URC talking about hes master of RC with Diddy; thats freakin stupid. Even Jiggs will gimp that hoe.

or better yet bizkit talking about PS2 being legit.
I literally can't remember a single tournament set ever going there before i played him (i think this german TL forfeited to me in pools and we did wario dittos there once or something ? LMAO). and homie like legit did not know the stage, and it made me salty because I actually think bizkit's snake is mad good.

But he had like 1-2 gimmicks and otherwise didnt really do much, he didnt get stage control on the transformations, he didnt put me into bad positions.

Heck thats the same reasoning ppl are using to say Europe is booty, when theyre clearly not. A Marth going toe to toe with Larry isnt garbage. Neither is a Marth/Peach going game 3 last stock with Gnes. Are people really that deluded that they cant see anything wrong with the paradigms we've embraced in the US over the years?

Europe definitely isn't as good as america Imo but like tbh EU as a whole I would sponsor for a MM vs midwest . loser pays the plane ticket.
the top players definitely would be ranked/place well in america, as they can stand up to other top US players. but hey like, let people do their thing and have their opinion.

Hey if I ever play you, let me break your arm first. So you can adapt. Cuz obviously that isnt impairment.

I laughed wayyyy to hard XDDD

Lain MK in teams is booty. In singles it randomly shifts from "Wtf M2K junior" to "I saw some **** in 09, here's my take on it"

that inconsistency homie

 

[DMG]

Don't get me started on how much of a wild card he is depending on his level (or lack thereof) of highness.

 

[kailo34ce]

you guys should make weed mandatory at brawl tourneys that way everyone is playing more focused and etc.


*walks away*

 

[Thino]

Don't get me started on how much of a wild card he is depending on his level (or lack thereof) of highness.

I'm interested.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Maybe im not clear when i say play the game.

like my ex gf spending time ****ing around with bowser =/= learning/studying/actively playing in the determination of getting better.

i know plenty of people who have played brawl for literally nonstop hours. but they suck because they either

A. have no knowledge on how to become better, aka they don't study
B. they don't care
C. they dont practice/focus they just play to play

i literally played melee since the day it came out, but all of those hours and hours of countless gaming that I put in don't reflect the same as like the occasional Focused 15 minutes every few months that i put into the game. Having a serious competitive, or even just simply focused mindset definitely makes a large difference.

You made the initial claim that pro ban is full of people who are scrubs and don't play and it seems at this point practice.

This is true depending on the individual. I can say for certain almost everyone who posts here play. It's not Street Fighter people or casuals who don't play the game in some form for tournaments, online ladders, etc.

Practice is something I didn't disagree, but at the same time this isn't mutually exclusive to a view point.

Is it really?
If the panel was made up of like 6 m2ks and they said no bad would you honestly be satisfied or respect that decision? regardless of my stance on the opinion I don't think I would...

I realize this, but there was a reason the poll was made along with restrictions on who could vote. It was a large majority, pretty much a super majority. Then a counter poll was made on AiB for what top players thought, aka the SWF ranking list taking the top 100, it was 70-30 for pro ban.

This isn't exclusive to player skill.

Nor does it matter, since based on this response, which seems to go past the skill level of people in Unity point and onto you thinking they are full of bias on their personal stances. Which based on responses from most of them, this doesn't seem to be the case. The poll was the nail in the coffin that changed a lot of opinions.

 

[Orion*]

You made the initial claim that pro ban is full of people who are scrubs and don't play and it seems at this point practice.

I'm not taking numbers or documenting ****. but when 99% of the people I have to debate with on SWF specifically (not irl) claim how broken mk is, then I see that their non existent tournament placings, or them clearly not understanding basics about how the game works I get salty. Especially when they have like 3000+ post count like are you kidding me LOL.

Most of the top players that are pro ban when I talk to them IRL aren't spreading all this damn salt or really caring they are more focused on just getting better and if he gets banned yayuhz.

Here it's like the other way around and I honestly hate the mentality that many people have torwards this game. Everyone wants to take shortcuts to winning, and nobody wants to actually blame their losses on their own mistakes and learn from crap and improve.

->

Also just out of curiousity I looked at the top 100 players on the SWF rankings just out of spite and realized, despite the percent that is actually pro ban. Did you notice how little % of any of those posters actually do anything or give 2 cents about posting in these forums? LMAO like really it's pathetic.

 

[Gea]

Can you blame them?

 

[Orion*]

Can you blame them?

in all honesty no. this community, Especially online has so many deep rooted problems that it's pathetic.
very few of the good representatives of this community want to post on this website, and even less so of the good players.

 

[kailo34ce]

orion half the backrooms now are people who shouldnt dictate anything, even skilled players sometimes shouldnt make rules but i was directly referring to them. also like a million people who joined in 08 and have 3k posts got modded just because the power on this site is now distributed through circle jerking

booom.

 

[AKARed]

I don't think mk should be banned just because he's only one character in the entire game.

 

[Steam]

Steam: LOL so how should Olimar adapt to having no recovery on the right? Hey if I ever play you, let me break your arm first. So you can adapt. Cuz obviously that isnt impairment. Freakin stupid. YOU ADAPT BECAUSE YOU ARE CURRENTLY IMPAIRED. Freakin think before you type. Why would u adapt up less you are in an unfavorable position. Cutting off a recovery is huge. You think Marth having to straight up B isnt easier to punish than playing the ledge game with him? You think it doesnt require less thought? Come on dude.

he could position himself to not get put off the right side of that stage... Always DI up. Or try to stall out the transformation til it flips. Or if worse comes to worse he could just ban the stage. I've always advocated multiple stage bans. But the same argument could be made with fd... The lack of platforms present on pretty much every stage impair wario against ics. Ban fd.

And If you want everything to be pvp... Then play other games. This is smash and all these stages are in the game for a reason. If you don't like it you should play a different game because the stages being a factor is inherent to smash's design.

 

[swordgard]

I don't think mk should be banned just because he's only one character in the entire game.

Out of all the anti-ban arguments available thats the one you chose?

awdlknmdwlnasw

I don't blame orion for saying most pro-ban don't train, but tbh I could claim the same thing about a lot of the anti-ban. The fact is, most players don't train and make claims with little evidence often based on anecdotal evidence instead of statistics, and often their own experience is completely meaningless since they don't understand the game at a level deep enough to even comment on it.


I am pro-ban, but tbh I am still 100% against the way this ban was made and would like for it to be lifted so we can actually go about this in a logical way. But that probably won't happen.