Feelings on MK and the MK ban after Apex

[Orion*]

he could position himself to not get put off the right side of that stage...

When the match starts there's a 50/50 that he will auto be at a significant disadvantage then.

Always DI up.

Olimar does that regardless homie his recovery options are meh

Or try to stall out the transformation til it flips.

pretty much the strategy for half the CPs in this game LMAO, that would also be relying on something random

Or if worse comes to worse he could just ban the stage. I've always advocated multiple stage bans. But the same argument could be made with fd...

it can't because FD will not randomly give a character a said disadvantage or advantage. also when a stage is not viable for competitive play why wouldn't you ban it in the first place?

The lack of platforms present on pretty much every stage impair wario against ics. Ban fd.

?????

And If you want everything to be pvp... Then play other games. This is smash and all these stages are in the game for a reason. If you don't like it you should play a different game because the stages being a factor is inherent to smash's design.

so are items. we surgically change this game to make it competitive, so doing something simply because you like it or think that's how it should be would be silly.

 

[xDD-Master]

he could position himself to not get put off the right side of that stage... Always DI up. Or try to stall out the transformation til it flips. Or if worse comes to worse he could just ban the stage. I've always advocated multiple stage bans. But the same argument could be made with fd... The lack of platforms present on pretty much every stage impair wario against ics. Ban fd.

And If you want everything to be pvp... Then play other games. This is smash and all these stages are in the game for a reason. If you don't like it you should play a different game because the stages being a factor is inherent to smash's design.

1. No Stage Bans is the correct way to play the game

2. Same can be said about items. Nothing wrong with not using them, if we prefer to do so.

 

[Gea]

I can't think of a single time a ruleset change was ever done in a logical way. Usually it's put forth and if the community rolls with it, it stays. Otherwise it doesn't.

 

[The Ben]

I think part of the reason for the lack of logic behind the decision making is the lack of clarity of goal. Trying to reduce the game down to a game of skill without first determining what skills are desirable seems pretty silly.

 

[Gnes]

1: kakera and Otori ($1152.00)
2: ANTi and Mew2King ($563.20)
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3: Gnes and UltimateRazer ($307.20)


Hmmm....my feelings for the simple readers

 

[Smooth Criminal]

1: kakera and Otori ($1152.00)
2: ANTi and Mew2King ($563.20)
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3: Gnes and UltimateRazer ($307.20)


Hmmm....my feelings for the simple readers

Somebody's salty.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Juushichi]

Some of that salt is diluted out by delicious Sena.

But I mean, the best Diddy and one of the best players on our continent clearly can't be mad when he loses to MK. That matchup is only -1 even on Japan like stages. He just has to get better, right?

He can't complain at all.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

He knew going to Apex that MK wasn't going to be banned.

Not a problem anymore now that MK's banned, right? Gnes'll be taking tourneys left and right now. No more complaining! He can take all the money he can.

*snort.*

If he's going to ***** about placing low(er) at a MK-permitted tourney, he's wasting his time. I'm not going to empathize.

And no, the fact that MK players placed high doesn't mean diddily to me. I still stand by the fact that overcentralization is probably one of the weakest arguments you can put forth in banning a character. I support the ban lukewarmly, only on the account that the community wants it, but I do not agree with the lion's share of their reasoning.

Aw, the hell with it.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gea]

Yes, God forbid a player who has been planked in tournament more than once not like Metaknight.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yes, God forbid a player who has been planked in tournament more than once not like Metaknight.

Didn't say he couldn't like the character.

I was just pointing out the fact that he knew what he was getting into.

Smooth Criminal

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Orion, swordguard so it better but i still standby that people being lazy and moaning about it is not exclusive to any viewpoint.

This gonna stand by people who post a lot aren't necesarily bad. Some do, but I will say it is not exclusive to smash.

Also where does the idea of mods come from there, idk where that came from.

 

[Gea]

Didn't say he couldn't like the character.

I was just pointing out the fact that he knew what he was getting into.

Smooth Criminal

And your solution is to... plank back? I understand that you shouldn't expect to win a matchup not in your favor and all that jazz, but I don't think he was upset because he lost to MK, but rather because he sometimes never even gets to really fight the MK player himself. How is he supposed to feel?

Edit: Additionally, I'd like to point out that many MK players in doubles resorted to planking when they were losing. What's it say about our metagame when MKs in a 2v1 resort towards planking? Mind you, I take no real stance on the banning of MK. But it is kind of silly to see this kind of behavior and have people shrug it off as fine. I mean sure they could and often did just wait the MK out, but why should that even be their apparently best hope of making a comeback? Getting on the edge and hoping someone is dumb enough to approach?

 

[Steam]

1. No Stage Bans is the correct way to play the game

2. Same can be said about items. Nothing wrong with not using them, if we prefer to do so.

1. Opinion

2. There's a big difference In the effect stages have on matches, and what items do.... If you can't see the huge difference between the two then nothing can be done for you. The worst random thing that could happen on a currently legal stage would be spawning at a disadvantaged location. Items randomly appear and give one player a huuuge advantage. And it happens all the time... Lol



Orion- as for olimar on frigate, you can pretty much just look at how nietono played there against mks... He was consistently able to avoid getting gimped on that right ledge.

I personally see absolutely no difference in the competitive viability of stages like fd and japes... Both are very polar stages with no random events... Lol.

 

[Orion*]

1: kakera and Otori ($1152.00)
2: ANTi and Mew2King ($563.20)
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3: Gnes and UltimateRazer ($307.20)


Hmmm....my feelings for the simple readers

homie like
will/nicole made more money than you tho

Edit: Additionally, I'd like to point out that many MK players in doubles resorted to planking when they were losing. What's it say about our metagame when MKs in a 2v1 resort towards planking?

Larry tried to do this to me and ramin... doesnt work
I tried to do it to nietono/rain... didnt work..
m2k tried to do it vs kakera/otori... didnt work

only time that **** is viable is when stages will flip and you get random opportunities to approach or something. LOL

 

[Orion*]

1. Opinion

2. There's a big difference In the effect stages have on matches, and what items do.... If you can't see the huge difference between the two then nothing can be done for you. The worst random thing that could happen on a currently legal stage would be spawning at a disadvantaged location. Items randomly appear and give one player a huuuge advantage. And it happens all the time... Lol

1. random effects are still random.
2. if you think the only random thing that happens on CPs is spawning points I lost the little faith I had left you homie.

 

[Gea]

only time that **** is viable is when stages will flip and you get random opportunities to approach or something. LOL

I agree. Totally. I'm just saying why do they even try this? Why is it basically a first and only resort instead of actually playing out the match? Some people are continuing to blame the stagelists for America losing to Japan but then this is their in match solution? And people are expected to not feel bitter about MK when that is what it comes down to, failure or not?

 

[Steam]

1. random effects are still random.
2. if you think the only random thing that happens on CPs is spawning points I lost the little faith I had left you homie.

It isn't the only random thing that happens, but the other random events give you forever to react. We banned picto because of this.

There obviously needs to be a line of what is too random, otherwise you need to ban sv because of the balloon.

 

[Orion*]

1. Opinion

2. There's a big difference In the effect stages have on matches, and what items do.... If you can't see the huge difference between the two then nothing can be done for you. The worst random thing that could happen on a currently legal stage would be spawning at a disadvantaged location. Items randomly appear and give one player a huuuge advantage. And it happens all the time... Lol



Orion- as for olimar on frigate, you can pretty much just look at how nietono played there against mks... He was consistently able to avoid getting gimped on that right ledge.

I personally see absolutely no difference in the competitive viability of stages like fd and japes... Both are very polar stages with no random events... Lol.

I agree. Totally. I'm just saying why do they even try this? Why is it basically a first and only resort instead of actually playing out the match? Some people are continuing to blame the stagelists for America losing to Japan but then this is their in match solution? And people are expected to not feel bitter about MK when that is what it comes down to, failure or not?

It isn't the only random thing that happens, but the other random events give you forever to react. We banned picto because of this.

There obviously needs to be a line of what is too random, otherwise you need to ban sv because of the balloon.

well that's where the problem comes from, everyones line is different. if I see stages drastically altering games and actually taking stocks without players having to really make reads then I think it's a potential issue (i.e. frigate). Although I actually still think frigate should still be legal it's disturbing that people don't realize how game altering that stage actually is.

Balloons can definitely alter the game, but It's not reasonable to assume that it will have a significant effect on matches

 

[Steam]

Frigate is no more game altering than like... Yoshi's... Random platforms to save people like frigate and shy guys interfering at random. Frigate just has a timed moving platform and the occasional stage flip which should never kill anyone.

 

[Cassio]

1: kakera and Otori ($1152.00)
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2: ANTi and Mew2King ($563.20)
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3: Gnes and UltimateRazer ($307.20)


Hmmm....my feelings for the simple readers

More accurate

orion half the backrooms now are people who shouldnt dictate anything, even skilled players sometimes shouldnt make rules but i was directly referring to them. also like a million people who joined in 08 and have 3k posts got modded just because the power on this site is now distributed through circle jerking

booom.

lmao, completely agree. Like swordgard I wouldnt have had a problem with the ban if it was made logically and with people who actually understand the game at a high level.

I realize this, but there was a reason the poll was made along with restrictions on who could vote. It was a large majority, pretty much a super majority. Then a counter poll was made on AiB for what top players thought, aka the SWF ranking list taking the top 100, it was 70-30 for pro ban.

This isn't exclusive to player skill.

Nor does it matter, since based on this response, which seems to go past the skill level of people in Unity point and onto you thinking they are full of bias on their personal stances. Which based on responses from most of them, this doesn't seem to be the case. The poll was the nail in the coffin that changed a lot of opinions.

Any mathematician would tell you that all of those polls were completely bogus, and worth less than junk in a landfill.

 

[John12346]

Any mathematician would tell you that all of those polls were completely bogus, and worth less than junk in a landfill.

I forget, but has anyone ever explained this statement?

I mean, you keep saying it, but I haven't seen it backed up even once...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Ah, wait. Never mind.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Cassio]

hmm, i guess i can make a post about it maybe.

 

[Steam]

It's bogus because it didn't have the desired result

Seriously... If they're too lazy to hit a button then they do not deserve a voice

 

[Cassio]

Its bogus because thats not how polling works. This wasnt an election this was an analysis of the community. Anyways, Im putting something together should be done soonish.

 

[Steam]

Its bogus because thats not how polling works. This wasnt an election this was an analysis of the community. Anyways, Im putting something together should be done soonish.

If they're too lazy to hit a button To vote on the poll then you could safely assume them to be indifferent or probably incapable of... Living as human beings

 

[kailo34ce]

there are certain types of forum members that just annoy me

Smooth Criminal

 

[Kuro~]

Wait what. Why was the allisbrawl one bogus? It had pretty much all the top names accounted for and the majority was still for the ban...

 

[Cassio]

Voluntary response polls are always bogus. Always.

 

[Kimidori]

I personally see absolutely no difference in the competitive viability of stages like fd and japes... Both are very polar stages with no random events... Lol.

Klap Trap... That is all.
Also, your argument on FD being polar is poor. Because it isn't. It's Wario's fault if he's getting caught by IC's anyway. J/s

 

[Kuro~]

Klap Trap... That is all.
Also, your argument on FD being polar is poor. Because it isn't. It's Wario's fault if he's getting caught by IC's anyway. J/s

Klap trap isnt random. It comes every 7 seconds iirc.

 

[Gea]

Klap trap definitely isn't random at all. Hell, it isn't even an instant kill. You can argue that the water and klap trap can mitigate some interaction between the players (if anything it just helps certain recoveries and gimps other ones), but not that the stage is random at all.

 

[Kuro~]

Ya most of the time u can sdi the klaptrap and live.

Not saying anything about the stages legality however...

as that's an entirely different matter than how random the stage is.

 

[Ghostbone]

It comes every 10 seconds plus an extra 2 frames or something lol.

 

[Kuro~]

Eh i'll just turn on brawl when i'm home cuz now i'm curious.

 

[Steam]

It's a ten second timer

And Kimi... I can't be wrong because I'm wrong. That's awful reasoning. It's olimar's fault he ended up offstage on the right side frigate... Works just the same. Fd is the most ground based stage outside of bridge of eldin. So yes, it's extremely polarizing. Iirc at mlg it was banned more than brinstar and rc combined.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

there are certain types of forum members that just annoy me

Smooth Criminal

Yeah, I know. At least I stopped myself from blathering on about **** I didn't know about.

It's okay. Want me to scratch behind your ears, little doggie?

Kailo

 

[Cassio]

Aight yall demanded it so here it is. Bogus online polling, particularly why that poll that everyone uses to say 75% of people want MK banned is stupid.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=317228

 

[kailo34ce]

Yeah, I know. At least I stopped myself from blathering on about **** I didn't know about.

It's okay. Want me to scratch behind your ears, little doggie?

Kailo

maybe if ur cute. im kinda judgmental when it comes to guys

Smooth Criminal

 

[Dnyce]

Europe definitely isn't as good as america Imo but like tbh EU as a whole I would sponsor for a MM vs midwest . loser pays the plane ticket.

I'd be willing to match you on that Europe vs midwest crew battle.

5v5?