Balanced Brawl Public Preview *GENESIS UPDATE*

[Tommy_G]

Brawl+'s intent was to balance the game by making it more like melee because for some reason all of the creators think melee is the best/most balanced game ever.

If you want to play with stupid combos that shouldn't work(like in Brawl+) just play smash 64.

BBrawl's intent is to balance the game by minor tweaks to percentages and getting rid of easy/free percent setups.

I have to say it's just my opinion now so no one will hate me, yes?

 

[Shell]

Tommy G, normally I would address and correct the ignorance you're preaching, but this isn't the place.

Please, people, stay on target here. Mods (Amazing Ampharos included, I'm sure) don't take kindly to trolling.

Let's discuss Brawl+ in one of its many threads. No need to turn this into a contest.

 

[The Cape]

I would just like to make a statement here:

Basically I have looked over your thoughts and I think that they have merit in theory, however at this point in the game they may be too late. The best three characters are the best three for their overall playstyle and ability to control the match, the nerfs that they have recieved, and the buffs that the other characters have received may not be enough to bring anymore balance. Looking over these changes and with my own experience on the programming side of Brawl+ for the last 8 months I still see the top three characters dominating the game almost entirely.

MK has the best spacing, has actual combos during hitstun, the best recovery in the game and he kills low. By removing some of his kill power he still dominates the stage for the entire game and all you will be doing is making him more campy as his spacing game is hard to beat.

Snake's grenades will still take on their insane ability to control the field and weaken most approaches with the sheild while the opponent is approaching. This still allows Snake to take on his great power to control what is happening on stage. Also, dont forget forward tilt with its excellent range, power, and speed.

Wario has a bit weaker of kill moves, but dont forget that he racks damage really well and has great spacing due to his air control.

By making these three characters have less kill options all you are really doing is taking the already 8 minute matches and making them more slow and taking longer (at least in my opinion).

Some of the changes that you have put in I looked over and honestly they just made me laugh. Example: Ganon upB uppercut: Why would you be near the edge in a game with very limited edgeguarding as is? Ganon would just be edgeguarded further out, or not at all. This doesnt really change much with him at all.

Characters like Falcon that got kill move increases or a tripping D tilt or things of that nature really doesnt do much for the game overall. Defense is such a priority in this game that if Falcon was to throw out one of these moves he would just be punished out of a sidestep, roll, AD, or sheild anyhow. It really doesnt appear to change much.

I think the theory behind it is good, but I honestly dont think it will help very much and you will still see the top three dominating more matches, but also taking more time overall for those matches to reach completion.

Props for the effort and props for actually taking the initiative on this, but I personally dont know how well it will actually work out, especially considering the higher ups that played Brawl were initially vehemently against the removal of tripping, and now this is expected to be acceptable?

Good luck to you in all that you do on this project, and again, props to you from me.


Edit: One minor point that I forgot:

By removing things like grab release infinites and the ICers infinite throw to throw, what will these characters have to make them at all viable?

Most characters had grab release infinites on Wario and he is still third best in the game. ICers have only one real trick in this game and thats the throw to throw, you take that out and what do they really have?

 

[shanus]

Brawl+'s intent was to balance the game by making it more like melee because for some reason all of the creators think melee is the best/most balanced game ever.

If you want to play with stupid combos that shouldn't work(like in Brawl+) just play smash 64.

BBrawl's intent is to balance the game by minor tweaks to percentages and getting rid of easy/free percent setups.

Edit: out of respect for this thread, I removed my reply which explains the ignorance of this post.

 

[Plum]

Brawl+'s intent was to balance the game by making it more like melee because for some reason all of the creators think melee is the best/most balanced game ever.

If you want to play with stupid combos that shouldn't work(like in Brawl+) just play smash 64.

BBrawl's intent is to balance the game by minor tweaks to percentages and getting rid of easy/free percent setups.

I don't want to stay in this thread because I am not going to contribute to the actual progress of it, but a post like this has to be responded to.

Brawl+ is NOT like Melee. We want Brawl+ to be balanced, in both characters and the playstyles. This means adding more offensive play onto vBrawl's defensive style. Notice how there is no wavedashing or L canceling? Doesn't sound like Melee to me. In fact, there is a LOT less hitstun then Melee too. Notice how there is balance in Brawl+? Even less like Melee. Melee was highly unbalanced, everybody knows that.

And all of those stupid guaranteed combos? Learn to DI. It's kind of important to do when you are stuck in hitstun. Stupid combos don't work in Brawl+ either once you actually DI.

That post just shows ignorance, and it sickens me.

 

[kackamee]

VBrawl is a great game. Everyone knows it or else people wouldn't play it if it really sucked that bad. Brawl+ is for people who enjoy that Melee style of play (Combos, more speed, etc.) and BBrawl is VBrawl without infinates or locks. (which sme people might, or might not enjoy)

Each game has something to enjoy. They can all have they're own spots at tourneys as long as people want them to. But one problem about BBrawl (B+ used to have this problem too but not so much anymore) is that it's going after balance and that's a pretty empty goal as it is. But after it's done, it'll be just another version of Smash.

 

[CRASHiC]

This won't work. If your goal is to have every charecter balanced, then getting rid of DDDs Chaingrab (not the standing, the dashing) which he was designed for as Samurai Panda has proved, then DDD will not be balanced. The dthrow is only good for occasional, rare, edge guarding, and in no way helps us in any of our bad match ups. Having the chain grab does not make a match up necessarily bad.

If damage was the problem, then light weights like Peach, Toon Link, Yoshi, and Diddy Kong would not be a 50:50 matchups.

If gimping was the issue, then Marth and Pit would not be 55:45 in his favor.

You say to learn tech chasing, but tech chasing always heavily favors the person being chased.

You have taken away DDDs greatest asset, and given him nothing in return.

 

[Bladefist137]

If it wasn't for the coders that has created Brawl+ into how it is today, I bet this project wouldn't have been the same way as it is now or not even exist.

But i'm not here to flame the project, it certainly has some appeal to it for people who don't like hitstun for example that is in Brawl+ but i also think why people will like this over brawl+ is because they focus on character balance more than physic changes. But remember that Brawl+ is trying to do the same, it's just not going so fast as most people want and they are likely to forget how stressful this can be
(believe me, I was the same like those guys who couldn't wait for their main to get buffed/tweaked till SMK convinced me to have faith in them and wait patiencely)

Could you guys at least waited till Brawl+ had a gold release creating a split between everyone now will surely cause was chaos among the community.

But apart from that, I wish you guys good luck with making this project, even tho i will properly not play it, i still hope that you guys will make it into something great for the people that are interested in this

Spoiler

Yes i like to spam smiles because it makes the whole post stronger imo.
seeing how posts has been made claiming Brawl+ is melee 2.0,i wonder how many more kitten god has killed :'(

 

[Turbo Ether]

People really need to keep the Brawl+ bashing/praising out of this thread.

 

[Thinkaman]

Good luck to you in all that you do on this project, and again, props to you from me.

I would say you have good points, but I think you are strongly exaggerating the defensiveness of Brawl. The fact is, we have well over a month of testing in multiple groups of testers that show that these nerfs do in fact make a difference. Snake's u-tilt knockback is a really, really serious thing to nerf, as well as MK's d-smash. Neither of them even received that big of nerfs, and it was still easily enough... testers not only notice it, but say it makes all the difference.

I really don't intend at all to sound rude, but theorycraft is meaningless in the face of experience. That's why we are so adamant about inviting players to try our changes in their community and give us that valuable feedback.

 

[The Cape]

I really don't intend at all to sound rude, but theorycraft is meaningless in the face of experience. That's why we are so adamant about inviting players to try our changes in their community and give us that valuable feedback.

We strongly use this as well in the Brawl+ model, however you have to remember that not all the the feedback that you receive will be sound.

Yes it is true that I am inexperienced at regular Brawl but that is mostly due to the fact that I play weaker players and spend 8 minutes approaching them to barely win. This is a huge turn off to me and I quit the game early on, just to see it develop even more towards what I did not like about it. I wish you the best of luck with this project, but do you really think you can save Brawl with these changes?


As for the defensive nature of the game that you said that I overexaggerated. I just fail to see how your changes will fix things such as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zPMhGvCyVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJgjKBBlU2E

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Guys, seriously, stop talking about Brawl+ in here. Just, seriously. Does this look like a Brawl+ thread? Do you think we didn't mention Brawl+ even once in the original post as an accident? I feared this kind of, to be blunt about it, bickering. It's not healthy for anyone. Just... don't talk about Brawl+ in this thread. I can guarantee the last thing you will ever see me or Thinkaman do is post about this in a Brawl+ thread. It's not some fear of other projects; it's just that bickering is totally useless and hurts everyone.

King Dedede has AMAZING tech chase options out of his dthrow now. I honestly don't consider him nerfed; you really have to play with him to see. There were actually a lot of testers who expressed such concerns when they had King Dedede's changes mentioned to them, but pretty much across the board everyone who then played with King Dedede fell in love with the changes and agreed that it wasn't really a nerf beyond the obvious way that not instant winning on someone like DK is a nerf. I hate to bias experiences, but I'll just reveal that, when I made a personal tier list for this, King Dedede was top 5. If anything, I worry he's too much of a top character...

 

[GPDP]

People, shut up about Brawl+ already. This isn't the thread for discussing it.

I'm not going to support this project personally, because I don't like vanilla Brawl for more reasons than just character imbalance, but I can respect the intentions and the amount of work that went into it. Yes, it probably does owe much of its existence to Brawl+, but the Brawl+ community has never claimed a monopoly on the Brawl modding scene, nor should it.

In short, keep the Brawl+ chatter out of this thread. Let us be respectful.

 

[Thinkaman]

This won't work. If your goal is to have every charecter balanced, then getting rid of DDDs Chaingrab (not the standing, the dashing) which he was designed for as Samurai Panda has proved, then DDD will not be balanced. The dthrow is only good for occasional, rare, edge guarding, and in no way helps us in any of our bad match ups. Having the chain grab does not make a match up necessarily bad.

If damage was the problem, then light weights like Peach, Toon Link, Yoshi, and Diddy Kong would not be a 50:50 matchups.

If gimping was the issue, then Marth and Pit would not be 55:45 in his favor.

You say to learn tech chasing, but tech chasing always heavily favors the person being chased.

You have taken away DDDs greatest asset, and given him nothing in return.

I'm sorry, but you clearly have not played with the changes, or even read most of the OP. DDD does just fine.

It's DDD's tech chasing out of d-throw is really, really easy on a lot of characters. Not only does it allow regrabs, but also things like dash attacks and d-smashes. I'm not sure what you mean about "tech chasing favorign the person beign tech chased"; if you are being tech chased, you are ALWAYS more vulnerable. You only have 4 options you can take, and none of them are any threat to the opponent. On top of this, DDD gains as a side-effect a nifty ledge-spike that further limits the opponent's options.

I'd be happy to play DDD against anyone in this version. I would personally put him at least in my "high-tier". I suggest avoiding assumptions until you play with him.

 

[Vyse]

This project is Amazing.
Well done you guys, on putting soooo much effort into something like this.

I'm sure you guys put this out there expecting to meet with a lot of criticism, but the fact that you guys decided to undertake it is amazing.

 

[adumbrodeus]

This won't work. If your goal is to have every charecter balanced, then getting rid of DDDs Chaingrab (not the standing, the dashing) which he was designed for as Samurai Panda has proved, then DDD will not be balanced. The dthrow is only good for occasional, rare, edge guarding, and in no way helps us in any of our bad match ups. Having the chain grab does not make a match up necessarily bad.

If damage was the problem, then light weights like Peach, Toon Link, Yoshi, and Diddy Kong would not be a 50:50 matchups.

If gimping was the issue, then Marth and Pit would not be 55:45 in his favor.

You say to learn tech chasing, but tech chasing always heavily favors the person being chased.

You have taken away DDDs greatest asset, and given him nothing in return.

...

No, it depends on the tech-chase. Period.

Even in vBrawl, I can cite plenty of examples where tech-chasing is STRONGLY in favor of the character doing the chasing. Have you ever seen Ganondorf's tech-chase game for example?

Furthermore, when you're techchasing, you're at basically no risk, so it's a winning situation for you regardless. Sure, it might not be guaranteed damage, but it's a very powerful too.

I would say you have good points, but I think you are strongly exaggerating the defensiveness of Brawl. The fact is, we have well over a month of testing in multiple groups of testers that show that these nerfs do in fact make a difference. Snake's u-tilt knockback is a really, really serious thing to nerf, as well as MK's d-smash. Neither of them even received that big of nerfs, and it was still easily enough... testers not only notice it, but say it makes all the difference.

I really don't intend at all to sound rude, but theorycraft is meaningless in the face of experience. That's why we are so adamant about inviting players to try our changes in their community and give us that valuable feedback.

I'm going to have to disagree with your last paragraph, but otherwise agree with your statement.

I will then agree with you but provide a theorycraft explanation, because honestly, "Snake and MK are just so much better at killing that the percentage doesn't matter" is simply bad theorycraft.

Without further ado:

Honestly, it's already been illustrated many times that otherwise solid characters are often critically weakened by their difficulty when killing. The reason is simple, the longer your opponent is alive, the more opportunities your opponent has to do stuff to you. Unless it's a match-up where you simply should not ever be hit, a higher percent required to kill means that your opponent has that much more of a chance to kill you.

Basically, it's one more chance for you to make a crucial mistake, and your opponent to instead kill you. This especially makes a difference with MK, because he's light and therefore already vulnerable.

It's the same with the buffs to the other characters, for example, they give them more options when the opponent actually makes a mistake.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm sorry, but you clearly have not played with the changes, or even read most of the OP. DDD does just fine.

It's DDD's tech chasing out of d-throw is really, really easy on a lot of characters. Not only does it allow regrabs, but also things like dash attacks and d-smashes. I'm not sure what you mean about "tech chasing favorign the person beign tech chased"; if you are being tech chased, you are ALWAYS more vulnerable. You only have 4 options you can take, and none of them are any threat to the opponent. On top of this, DDD gains as a side-effect a nifty ledge-spike that further limits the opponent's options.

I'd be happy to play DDD against anyone in this version. I would personally put him at least in my "high-tier". I suggest avoiding assumptions until you play with him.

I could find you quotes by Seibrik (placed 9th at Apex) that say why tech chasing is mostly a waist, and why you should just bthrow. Also, you forget they can tech and hit us, so that makes 5. 5 options to 1. Taking out DDDs chain grab is like taking out Wario's aerial movement capabilities.

When an opponent sees you waiting to grab them, they go for the edge or deep in the stage. The dthrow spike has impossibly limited options, and is just as limited and for show as the Luigi dtaunt spike.

It is not impossible to take the infinite out, while keeping the chain grab.
I don't need to play in this one, I've played in Brawl +, I main DDD in vBrawl and have played against non-chaingrabable characters, not to mention I watch every high level play DDD video, because I run the DDD video thread, and tech chasing in the highest levels does not happen successfully anymore.


Taking out the chain grab is something out of personal spite for chain grabs, and less for balance. DDDs non-infinite chain grab does not hurt balance.

 

[Power of Slash]

Only real qualm I have about this

is that the stages you guys redid like Hyrule Temple and Spear Pillar.

The blast zones are pretty... off. Like. You could benefit from lowering it more, but still cutting off that part of the stage from being accessible.

Other than that I'm loving the changes.

 

[Swordplay]

I got a question........I read through your codes.....but I noticed you didn't supply the code for texture hacks.

Any reason why?

 

[The Cape]

I will then agree with you but provide a theorycraft explanation, because honestly, "Snake and MK are just so much better at killing that the percentage doesn't matter" is simply bad theorycraft.

Was this directed at my post by chance?

If so, I would like you to please point out where I stated that MK and Snake are better than the others due sole to their awesome killing ability.

I did in fact state that their ability to control the stage, space, and keep themselves generally safe was very above average (and in MK's case recovery too) but I did not state that their power to kill was so overpowering that it didnt matter the percent.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Someone get some videos up please.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Was this directed at my post by chance?

If so, I would like you to please point out where I stated that MK and Snake are better than the others due sole to their awesome killing ability.

I did in fact state that their ability to control the stage, space, and keep themselves generally safe was very above average (and in MK's case recovery too) but I did not state that their power to kill was so overpowering that it didnt matter the percent.

No, you said that their space control ability was so great it didn't matter what percent their opponent died at, they'd die eventually.


Honestly, there's maybe like one match-up in the game where the opponent is never gonna be able to hit you at the top of the metagame, I'm sorry, but suggesting that when their kill moves kill doesn't matter is a little ludicrous, they quite simply can't wall opponents that well.



Edit, and yes, that was poorly phrased, sorry about that.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

This won't work. If your goal is to have every charecter balanced, then getting rid of DDDs Chaingrab (not the standing, the dashing) which he was designed for as Samurai Panda has proved, then DDD will not be balanced. The dthrow is only good for occasional, rare, edge guarding, and in no way helps us in any of our bad match ups. Having the chain grab does not make a match up necessarily bad.

If damage was the problem, then light weights like Peach, Toon Link, Yoshi, and Diddy Kong would not be a 50:50 matchups.

If gimping was the issue, then Marth and Pit would not be 55:45 in his favor.

You say to learn tech chasing, but tech chasing always heavily favors the person being chased.

You have taken away DDDs greatest asset, and given him nothing in return.

i agree with this statement

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It's actually impossible to lower the blast zone on Spear Pillar without making the lower area walkable. Temple is kinda similar with a soft loop under the stage thing that we want the lower blast zone to be as high as possible to minimize.

About DDD, to be clear here, the reason it's different in Brawl+ is physics changes which we are not doing, period. Otherwise, there really is no option to keep the normal chaingrab while removing infinites. Regardless, King Dedede's chaingrab breaks tons of stages; it's not exactly "balanced" no matter how you look at it. The tech chase is a lot better than his tech chase against light characters in standard Brawl too; it's definitely extremely worth it. Of course, sometimes you want to back throw instead; it's a part of him having balanced options. Also, I dare say that you are really underselling King Dedede by saying he's just a cg character. He has so much else that defines him and has an all around solid moveset; I think actual testing confirms this to be true. This is why we really say you really do have to just play it. If you don't play it, you really can't know how good this tech chase is, and maybe you don't realize how good all the other things King Dedede has in the first place are.

 

[Rykoshet]

All it took was qd

Ike is sooooooo good

 

[Stryks]

Wait wait... you left ICs grabs, olimar's grab, diddy's bananas automatic trip if hit effect and GaW's bair unchanged? lol

I use ganondorf, day in and day out, yes he's among the worst characters but do you see me complaining?, yeah we would all like if the game were more balanced, but that's not going to happen, there's no way this version of brawl will replace the other one, as much as people want a diferent version of brawl (brawl+, this) the original is the one that's gonna be used.

Just live with what you got, if this version ever gets accepted in top tourneys and becomes the new official version, than I'll eat up my own words and say I was wrong, til then I'll still be using ganondorf even though he's the worst character in the game

 

[Metatitan]

I like the idea of a true brawl+. The brawl+ people got way out of hand; it became melee -. A lot of problems were fixed in ways I normally wouldn't suggest. You should have asked character boards what their character needed instead of making assumptions (yoshi in particular could have used a huge KB boost on his up smash and nair instead of down smash) and jigglypuff's rest should have been hugely boosted (of course not to a melee rest but it should have been a lot stronger). The best thing to do would be to ask character boards what their character really needs.

 

[Albert.]

I REALLY like this idea, I will def. be getting homebrew now.

I love the Ike buff, but it seems like the top Three could have been nerfed way more. Especially Snake. Couldn't you have taken out C4 recovery?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Wait wait... you left ICs grabs, olimar's grab, diddy's bananas automatic trip if hit effect and GaW's bair unchanged? lol

I use ganondorf, day in and day out, yes he's among the worst characters but do you see me complaining?, yeah we would all like if the game were more balanced, but that's not going to happen, there's no way this version of brawl will replace the other one, as much as people want a diferent version of brawl (brawl+, this) the original is the one that's gonna be used.

Just live with what you got, if this version ever gets accepted in top tourneys and becomes the new official version, than I'll eat up my own words and say I was wrong, til then I'll still be using ganondorf even though he's the worst character in the game

It was never INTENDED to replace vBrawl.

Or at least I don't think so.

This is intended to be another interesting diversion for the community, side-events like low tiers, Brawl+, and ISP.

I like the idea of a true brawl+. The brawl+ people know about got way out of hand; it became melee -.

Trust me, I play, Brawl+ and Melee are far too dissimilar for Brawl+ to be melee-. Seriously, it's not melee 2.0 (or .8 or that matter).

 

[Asdioh]

The whining from the Dedede players is ridiculous. In regular Brawl, Dedede can't chaingrab Kirby, but he still does perfectly fine (in fact I think it's in his advantage). And

The tech chase is a lot better than his tech chase against light characters in standard Brawl too; it's definitely extremely worth it.

So man up. Don't forget that this makes a lot of walkoff stages more viable.


This looks amazing guys. I wish there was a way to just destroy regular Brawl and release something more balanced and fun like this XD

All I want in a competitive game is fun, and variety. Variety is usually a result of balance. Regular Brawl doesn't have much of either >_>
Though it's kinda fun.


Also, did I hear somebody complaining about tripping being removed? I seriously hope not.

Edit: something important I wanted to ask. If you know what "phantom lag" is (also known as Triple Jump Glitch, or RCO by the Ganondorfs) did you do anything about that?

 

[King~]

after that issue a couple of pages back i got it wroking have been playing since then my thoughts thus far:

somethings i like somethings i dont =/


as stealth mentioned earlier, i dun like it(im a pika main). i could deal with the downthrow nerfs/fix but i personally feel he should still be able to chase his F-throws ATLEAST with an upsmash. and this is just a personal qualm but i think/feel like this changes alot of his MUs with the "higher" tier characters out of his favor and into theres(d3 is good example here).


MK also feels the same except u can fee the diffrence with his killing.(although he still has nair, f-smash, glide attack at higher percents) and i guess i need someone to DI tornado for me to see the diffrence with it going outward instead of inward(seems to just turn them around =/ idk)

i do like that most characters still feel the same though. im just butthurt most likely though id defnietly play at a tourney though if it were side event and such.

 

[Revven]

Guys, seriously, stop talking about Brawl+ in here. Just, seriously. Does this look like a Brawl+ thread? Do you think we didn't mention Brawl+ even once in the original post as an accident? I feared this kind of, to be blunt about it, bickering. It's not healthy for anyone. Just... don't talk about Brawl+ in this thread. I can guarantee the last thing you will ever see me or Thinkaman do is post about this in a Brawl+ thread. It's not some fear of other projects; it's just that bickering is totally useless and hurts everyone..

Then tell the people who keep bringing Brawl+ up in comparison to kindly shut the **** up about it. It irritates me to no end to see countless people comparing THIS project to OUR project. It hurts me, it hurts the community, and it creates hell. Comments like below need to be moderated better, this thread needs moderation, I'm serious. It's people like the guy below that I am quoting that set me off and want to comment towards him. Why do you tell the people who are defending Brawl+ to not talk about it but the people who support this and hate Brawl+ aren't told to stop talking about it? It's irritating and I suggest either infracting anyone who compares this to Brawl+ or keep a constant watchful eye on the thread.

Yes I am being a ******* about this but, I am really honest to God, annoyed about this.

I like the idea of a true brawl+. The brawl+ people know about got way out of hand; it became melee -.

That first sentence was UNNEEDED. Completely UNNEEDED. You did NOT need to make a comparison. Talk about THIS project only, if you so much hate Brawl+ in any way kindly keep it to yourself as I nor anyone else wants to hear your incessant joyfulness over this being what Brawl+ "should have been". Kindly keep it to yourself as that is BAIT, you expect people to come in here, see your post, and flame you. I hope you're happy that you got attention for that one little sentence because it is totally unnecessary to compare to the two projects like that and take a jab at the other one. Total. ****ing. Bull****.

 

[daisho]

Then tell the people who keep bringing Brawl+ up in comparison to kindly shut the **** up about it. It irritates me to no end to see countless people comparing THIS project to OUR project. It hurts me, it hurts the community, and it creates hell. Comments like below need to be moderated better, this thread needs moderation, I'm serious. It's people like the guy below that I am quoting that set me off and want to comment towards him. Why do you tell the people who are defending Brawl+ to not talk about it but the people who support this and hate Brawl+ aren't told to stop talking about it? It's irritating and I suggest either infracting anyone who compares this to Brawl+ or keep a constant watchful eye on the thread.

Yes I am being a ******* about this but, I am really honest to God, annoyed about this.



That first sentence was UNNEEDED. Completely UNNEEDED. You did NOT need to make a comparison. Talk about THIS project only, if you so much hate Brawl+ in any way kindly keep it to yourself as I nor anyone else wants to hear your incessant joyfulness over this being what Brawl+ "should have been". Kindly keep it to yourself as that is BAIT, you expect people to come in here, see your post, and flame you. I hope you're happy that you got attention for that one little sentence because it is totally unnecessary to compare to the two projects like that and take a jab at the other one. Total. ****ing. Bull****.

Nobody wants anyone to compare Brawl+ and this. Nobody cares about making that comparison except a few uneducated people. Just because those people say that doesn't mean that it has anything to do with this community as a whole, ESPECIALLY since the two people who made it both said that they don't think it has anything to do with B+.

And I agree... the only thing in common is they are both hacked versions of brawl... nothing else.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That first sentence was UNNEEDED. Completely UNNEEDED. You did NOT need to make a comparison. Talk about THIS project only, if you so much hate Brawl+ in any way kindly keep it to yourself as I nor anyone else wants to hear your incessant joyfulness over this being what Brawl+ "should have been". Kindly keep it to yourself as that is BAIT, you expect people to come in here, see your post, and flame you. I hope you're happy that you got attention for that one little sentence because it is totally unnecessary to compare to the two projects like that and take a jab at the other one. Total. ****ing. Bull****.

I addressed it, so please, don't let them bait you (however unintentional it was).


The main thing is people need to avoid making these comparisons, because they're unwarranted, but by the same tolken, it's important that we have a thicker skin.


So please, bear with them, it'll make things a lot smoother.

 

[Revven]

Nobody wants anyone to compare Brawl+ and this. Nobody cares about making that comparison except a few uneducated people.

It's not a few, there will be many more coming, I can feel it, and they won't learn anything from it if they aren't given a warning or infraction.

I addressed it, so please, don't let them bait you (however unintentional it was).


The main thing is people need to avoid making these comparisons, because they're unwarranted, but by the same tolken, it's important that we have a thicker skin.


So please, bear with them, it'll make things a lot smoother.

I can bare with them, but, that shouldn't mean it's "okay" to make those comparisons. It is completely unneeded and doesn't help either project in what each project is looking for: feedback. All it will do is cause an endless argument that just ruins the thread, and there will be people who will take the bait.

I can already tell Metatitan's post was bait because he originally was playing Brawl+ for a little bit. He didn't like the direction it was going so he dropped it, comes to this thread, and intentionally compares the two knowing that someone would likely comment to it regardless of how harsh it was or regardless of intending to take a jab at the project. It doesn't help anyone, at all, and I don't want to see those comparisons made ever outside of the fact that they are both modified versions of Brawl.

 

[Riddle]

Good work guys. A more balanced Brawl sounds really nice. I need to buy an SD card to play this...

 

[A1lion835]

I like the idea of a true brawl+. The brawl+ people got way out of hand; it became melee -. A lot of problems were fixed in ways I normally wouldn't suggest. You should have asked character boards what their character needed instead of making assumptions (yoshi in particular could have used a huge KB boost on his up smash and nair instead of down smash) and jigglypuff's rest should have been hugely boosted (of course not to a melee rest but it should have been a lot stronger). The best thing to do would be to ask character boards what their character really needs.

I agree with this statement about asking the character boards.

Kirby has a few bad matchups that a few easy things could fix (I doubt the changes I reccomend would require nerfs).

A few things about his upb off the top of my head: making it WAY less laggy, not having a break at the top where the hitbox disappears (allows characters to not get hit by the second hitbox and makes the move much worse, though almost no one seems to know about it) and making the projectile have longer range and/or be faster. Many of kirby's matchups are made bad because of his lack of quick disjoints or a reasonable projectile. Fixing those problems while taking away other aspects of kirby's game would make his matchups much more balanced.

This is still a beautiful project, and I applaud you guys for taking it on.

 

[Gea]

I love the idea of this and I have one suggestion.

Since you tweaked Lucas' spotdodge to be a bit better, can we have Peach's airdodge not be completely worthless please? At least make it as good as Marth's. Please.

 

[Big O]

I think you guys forgot to include the triple jump glitch fix. The one that eliminates recovery carryover lag.

When you hit someone with an auto trip move twice they don't trip a second time. How would a move trip infinitely just by being fast enough to hit before they can roll away?

I also find it weird that Yoshi's Fair pitfalls people when it would be a better fit on his down b. DK and Ganon both have to commit to a laggy move for that kind of reward while Yoshi can DI during it and double jump away from a short hop Fair.

 

[daisho]

It's not a few, there will be many more coming, I can feel it, and they won't learn anything from it if they aren't given a warning or infraction.



And that is something I respect, I respect the creators of this because I understand the position they are in to undertake something like this. But, that doesn't somehow make any others' comments regarded as "okay" because it isn't okay to compare the two in any other way except for the fact that they are modified versions of Brawl. If it gets any further than that, it is not "okay" to let it slide, it is a complete jab at Brawl+ to compare them in a negative way and vice versa. It needs to be controlled and it needs to be in moderation. Because I am already tired of the comparisons that have shown up, and there will be MANY more coming.

Who are you trying to appeal to when you make posts about how brawl+ isn't like melee (just an example of some of the brawl+ hate)?

The people that are stupid and think that will continue to think that regardless of what you post.

The ignorant people who know nothing about it probably will not take the time to get brawl+ anyway.

If it really just bothers you that the person does not understand the purpose of brawl+ then either make a thread about the purpose of brawl+ or just send the person a PM explaining your position.

But those stupid people who make offhanded comments about brawl+ shouldn't force you to talk about brawl+ in this thread, this thread is about Bbrawl. By defending yourself, you are really just making this argument heat up more.