Note: I wrote the gist of this approximately 3 days ago and had to rewrite it no fewer than 3 times due to internet crashes... :/
To start out with, I just tried out bBrawl, and I have to say I was impressed. I'm still stuck in the offense-oriented style of play that Brawl+ facilitates, so our matches weren't as campy as I would have thought. Of course, I miss Brawl+'s physics (ie combos and movement options), and not having aerial lag reduction was very disorienting, but bBrawl isn't a bad alternative. I appreciate the attempt to stay true to Brawl.
I remember someone calling an early version of Brawl+ "trying to fill in and redig a 1-foot hole with a bulldozer"; no matter how hard you try to keep that fragile balance intact, you can't help but mess up a few things, such as an autocanceled aerial when changing gravities, or a recovery when removing auto-sweetspot ledges, or a certain self-chaining throw when adding hitstun. The Brawl+ team
has progressed far since the bulldozer days - we've unlocked, for the sake of the metaphor, a back-end loader that is much more precise than our first machines, but nothing will retain that 'Brawl' feel like the archaeological equipment bBrawl uses.
But maybe we don't want the fine tools, or at least we won't restrict the use of anything else. Maybe we see that it isn't the individual cracks in the soil that's holding Brawl back, but the soil itself. We use the back-end loader because those delicate tools cannot make the changes we believe are necessary to make Brawl competitive. Making all characters equal is fine and dandy, but what is a balanced cast with an imperfect game engine?
This is a matter of opinion; maybe you think that the engine itself is perfectly fine. The Brawl+ 'hole' will end up much differently than that of bBrawl, so much so that the two holes can easily coexist, and even prosper together. If you don't like one, go play the other. Or vBrawl. Or Melee or Smash 64. Just don't come in here and say "this game sucks, you're just leeching off us", or "this is what Brawl+ should have been", because you'd be wrong either way. The two games are separate products, unique in their goals and methods. They just share the codes (and maybe some ideas). Perhaps Brawl+ is more of a Smash 3.1(.4.2 beta), while this bBrawl Public Preview is Brawl 1.0.1, but the point is that they are both striving to be better than Brawl. Not each other.
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Now, on to some feedback. I see that there hasn't been much on stages, so that's what the rest of this post will be about.
3. Increase Stage Viability
[...]
a. Walls and Walk-offs are fundamentally more fair
King Dedede, Falco, and Pikachu don't chainthrow off or into these anymore, and a bunch of locks that abused both are simply gone. Stages like Onett and Mario Circuit where these were the only problems are instantly back, stages like Distant Planet and Yoshi's Island (Melee) lose a layer of controversy in which everyone wins, and even stages like Bridge of Eldin and Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 are a lot more worth talking about.
It's true that the #1 problem with walkoffs was due to chaingrabs, but blastzone camping is also a major problem. If a fast character with a projectile and a good bthrow just camps out near the edge of the stage, a character without a projectile will have trouble approaching and run the risk of getting KO'd as soon as he gets in.
Onett: Onett is just a poor stage altogether. There are still walls all over the place for wall locks (ex multi-jabs), blastzone camping is nigh unbeatable, and don't get me started on the cars. The layout is still very constricted, and it was really only Dedede's cg that was much of a problem - removing it isn't nearly enough to make me consider playing on this stage.Mario Circuit: Same deal as Onett, but to a lesser extent. Again, watch out for blastzone camping and annoying cars. This is another one I don't see working.
Distant Planet: I've always liked DP, even if it isn't the most competitively-oriented stage. The cg fix does get rid of a problem, and makes the stage closer to legal. How much closer is up to debate.
Yoshi's Island (Melee): Now that the cgs are gone, YI still has one problem in my eyes: small blastzones. Of course, having small blastzones could be a good thing...Personally, I find the double slopes a bit constricting as well. YI is better already, though.
Bridge of Eldin: No. Just no. It's just too much of a boon to camping. The bomb that breaks the stage in 2 completely grinds the match to a halt, and even when unbroken, it's too easy to spam a projectile all day.
MK 1-1: At first I was skeptical, but "Rainbow Cruise for ground characters" is an apt descriptor. Great job on this stage, I never thought I'd see the day when I considered Mushroomy Kingdom a legit counterpick.
b. Swimming mechanics are tweaked
This is a change that may be hit or miss with players, but let me put the implication out there first. Pirate Ship is now a very wholesome and fair level. Now, onto the explanation. When you hit the water in standard Brawl with any character (all are the same for this purpose, including Squirtle and Charizard), you first enter a normal "swimming" state. If you have spent too much total time in the water, you enter a "flailing" state. If you spend too much continuous time in the water, you then drown. the flailing state starts earlier depending on damage; you flail instantly at 90% damage or more. Of course, the system could be gamed by just jumping out of the water a lot in the flailing state. This "water stalling" was obnoxious at best on Pirate Ship, though many would argue simply game ruining. The new mechanics simply remove the flailing state and substitute it for drowning. This makes water VERY scary at higher damages, and it makes any sort of strategy that involves intentionally hanging out in the water obsolete. For those who fear for Delfino Plaza and Jungle Japes, don't. While it does have an effect, it is radically less on these stages than on the Pirate Ship. Once you realize the change is there, you should find your play on these stages nearly unaffected.
I am highly against the swimming fix. The intent is there, but it has a whole slew of side effects, such as creating a super-high blastzone once you hit 90%. Instead of making the water a place to be careful around, this fix only makes it something to be avoided, which isn't what it should be. Perhaps simply using the frame speed mod to speed up the swimming and flailing states 2x or 3x would suffice, but removing flailing altogether just won't cut it. Pirate Ship: Even though this works to fix to stage, it breaks it in another way. I began to fear chasing an opponent into the water after I died on the offensive. The blastzone height change at 90% also irks me. I doubt that you can remove the abuse of voluntarily going in the water (ie camping) without creating an abuse of involutarily going in (ie being hit in). Right now, Pirate Ship just isn't ready. (EDIT: give water the flower effect? Good idea? Possible?)
Jungle Japes: You already would want to get out of the water asap, this just restricts your timing when you hit higher percentages. Makes the stage worse, even if only by a little bit.
Delfino Plaza: The beauty of the water (not to mention the walkoffs) at Delfino is that it is temporary, and therefore just about immune to abuse in vBrawl. The fix only puts limitations on the attacker. Again, it's small, but it makes the stage overall worse.
c. Certain stages progress slower
Due to a design decision not to "ruin" what makes any stage unique, we are not freezing stages. However, simply changing the speed to some lower but non-zero value is fine, and it is interesting. Green Greens running at 2/3 speed, for instance, makes camping around the blocks a lot less effective as they spawn more slowly. PictoChat at 2/3 speed is generally much easier to react to. Big Blue at 2/3 speed makes the track survivable by everyone, even Ganondorf. On the other hand, half speed is reserved for Mushroomy Kingdom and Luigi's Mansion. The first makes the 1-1 version of the stage actually quite navigable for everyone, and the second makes mansion destruction strategies generally more potent.
d. Some blast zones have been tweaked
This type of change was used just twice. The first use was to make certain stages that were just too small bigger. Corneria now has all around larger blastzones which makes it less of a nightmare for characters like Jigglypuff, and Mushroomy Kingdom's upper blast zone now qualifies as sane. The second type is loop removal. Spear Pillar's lower blast zone is now pretty high which has some interesting implications, but the most important one is that the lowest part of the stage is effectively gone. Similarly, the Temple is now missing a large portion of its underside, changing it from a stage that was the classic example of why stages need to be banned to something worth discussing.
Stage slowdowns: Great job on all counts. Green Greens and Big Blue at 2/3 have a much larger positive effect than I expected them to. Though the hazards are out longer at Picto, there is more time between the hazards, so it's good. I especially like that the wind effect is slower. As I said before, great job on Mushroomy. Mansion is still fairly campy, and I miss deadlands, but it's better than vBrawl. I still think it's more suitable for doubles.
Blastzones: Though Corneria still has the wall to contend with, its blaszones are better. Perhaps give this treatment to Yoshi's Island Melee? Spear Pillar is still off...random floors caving in, laser beams coming out of the sky, and other random stuffz. The blastzone is too high, and I know you can;t lower it. All things considered, SP is a writeoff. Temple, even though the loop was removed, is still campy, and it seems to have too-close blastzones on all sides. I especially love what I have termed the "descent into Hell". Twas fun. Again, We've got a writeoff. It was worth trying, but I don't think it'll make the greatest cometitive stage.
e. WiFi Training Room now replaces Hanenbow in Versus Mode
Sorry Hanenbow fans; the codes are limited here. Also sorry about this code not working in Training Mode or, ironically enough, WiFi. Also, for the curious, Sandbag DOES remain, and this is not a code limitation but a deliberate choice. The way he works against projectile spamming makes him the perfect balance for a flat stage, and manipulating him is generally very deep strategically.
f. Spear Pillar and Shadow Moses Island can have their forms selected individually by button combination
This is simple, and the button combinations are as follows:
X or Y: Dialga/Metal Gear REX
L or R: Palkia/Metal Gear RAY
X or Y AND L or R: Cresselia/Gekko
Dude, replace 75m or Mario Bros., those stages don't have a ghost of a chance of being anywhere close to legal. Hanenbow has a chance, at least in doubles. Also, what specifically does the music code change (is it music on all instances of wifi waiting room, wifi waiting room only when attached to hanenbow, or what?), and how can I return it to normal? Also, the button combinations are cool and all, but they won't make either of those stages legal. Also, I support not making WWR aonther FD. Sandbag forever!
Of course, we would like to do more, but this is what we were actually able to do. With that said, here is our recommended stage list. The project was designed assuming this stage list, but of course we can only offer it as a suggestion.
Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Smashville
PictoChat
Pokemon Stadium 1
WiFi Training Room (select Hanenbow)
NOTE: Rather than making a discriminating Starter and Starter/Counterpick section, it is just to be understood that removing any and exactly two of these stages from the Starter list to make a list of nine is not to be considered a deviation from the recommended rules.
Counterpick
Luigi's Mansion
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 (hold X or Y)
Mario Circuit
Pirate Ship
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Pokemon Stadium 2
Distant Planet
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Jungle Japes
Onett
Corneria
Rainbow Cruise
Green Greens
Brinstar
Counterpick/Banned (most favorable to least favorable, roughly)
Spear Pillar: Dialga (hold X or Y)
Spear Pillar: Cresselia (hold X or Y AND L or R)
Green Hill Zone
Bridge of Eldin
Big Blue
Port Town Aero Dive
Temple
Skyworld
Shadow Moses Island
Banned
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 (hold L or R)
Rumble Falls
Spear Pillar: Palkia (hold L or R)
WarioWare Inc.
New Pork City
Summit
75m
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow (unselectable)
I was going to argue the stage list, but it's only a suggested list. I'd just like to say that I don't consider anything below Brinstar playable (except Big Blue, wtf is it doing down there?). Half of what's above Brinstar should probably be shifted down a notch as well...
The next thing is that, if you are a competent coder who wishes to provide assistance, your help would be deeply appreciated, and you could definitely contribute to making this project better. Our wish list is shameless, and we can only say we have the sincerest of appreciation for anyone who can make it come true. Those looking to make suggestions might take note of this anyway; this is a list of concepts we would like to investigate in the future Paraphrased:
-Ledgestalling tweak (all ledgegrabs are limited to 7 times, like Ike's Aether)
-Stage hazard modification (would make several stages, such as Flat Zone 2 and Port Town Aero Dive, easy counterpicks)
-Rumble Falls no "speed up"
-WarioWare tweaked prize mechanics (always 4% healing), would stay true to design and be fair
-General water mechanics tweaks (being able to set drowning to be percentage independent and have a duration similar to some middle percentage would be ideal)
-Any codes to speed up character transformation time (presumably by exploiting the other two character slots in a 1v1)
I don't see Flat Zone 2 being legal, even with a stage hazard modifier...PTAD could work, though
I'm skeptical, but I'd like to see a fix for Rumble Falls
The minigames can cost you a stock. You end up fighting the stage, not the opponent. Is that fair? Frozen WarioWare is a great neutral. I know you've made a rule against it, but at least consider it
Again, for the water, 2x or 3x on swimming and flailing should do the trick (EDIT: flower effect on water)
I don't know if we want to speed up character transformation for Sheik/Zelda...that would increase interdependency and be seen as a buff to the two of them together, making any single-character strat weaker. Also, it'd probably be seen as unfair to PT if it didn't include him.
Also, related to this, is our very short section of known bugs.
-Stages that are normally frozen during character intros are not in this version. This is most noticeable on Halberd and Rumble Falls, but it doesn't cause real problems on either stage.
-Related to the previous issue, Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon frequently spawn in mid-air on Rumble Falls, causing them to spawn stuck in t-pose. Do not worry; this issue only applies to Rumble Falls.
-Landing grabs or doing certain other actions while the Timer item is in effect has extremely buggy and undesirable behavior. Universal speed changes from Training Mode, Special Brawl, or Dialga do not cause issues.
I didn't realize it before, but the Halberd problem applies to Brawl+ as well. We should get a fix for it.
As well, when we tested out Spear Pillar (Dialga) today, the screen sorta went fuzzy when he did his 'slow down time' routine. I'm not sure if that's supposed to happen and I just haven't been on that stage in so long that I forgot...
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Other stuff: Is it a problem to include the buffer-handicap code in bBrawl? It doesn't really change anything, and being able to choose a buffer allows much greater precision.
Also, if you're considering any buffs for Kirby, I recommend looking at ftilt (damage or bkb buff) or nair (see BRawl+). Ftilt would be a buff in most matchups, the kind you would want to put in if it turns out that Kirby is low tier. As it is presently outshadowed by utilt, dtilt, fsmash, or jab, depending on the situation, this would result in a general buff. The nair buff present in Brawl+ (bkb 60 from 10) would be a more specific buff, as it pays greatly to have a ranged move that can positively trade hits with vertical recoveries and can kill. Bair is much more precise against a horizontal move, as, say, a Phantasm user can maneuver around the laggy nair. Running offstage to nair a Marth's Dolphin Slash, on the other hand, can easily result in hits trading, with Kirby going verical and Marth flying horizontally, away from the stage without his jumps. Nair is much too laggy to risk not hitting when offstage, regardless of its power, and so it would be very effective as a stock finisher but not as a general-purpose WOP-type move. Note that G&W's Parachute goes straight through nair, so it would be useless in that matchup.
I think I suggested it before, but you should add:
Coloured shields
File replacement
Unrestricted Color Choice
Unrestricted Pause Camera
Unrestricted Replay Camera
Unrestricted Button Mapping Editing
Tags in Replays
There was probably more, too
Altogether, AA and Think, I applaud your efforts thus far.
