Anti-Meta Knight Discussion

[ADHD]

Did you realize diddy is basically around even with metaknight... he also can kill metaknight at any percent whatsoever from footstool combo. Pretty pro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ref]

Ness has a 60-40 Match up with MK.... So I don't get why he is below people with 65-35 match ups?

 

[Crizthakidd]

thers only 6 char with a chance vs mk

snake
diddy
olimar
lucairio
yoshi
ddd

 

[brinboy789]

thers only 6 char with a chance vs mk

snake
diddy
olimar
lucairio
yoshi
ddd

by a chance you mean not ****? cause MK doesnt **** all of brawl case cept for 6 chars...

 

[XxBlackxX]

thers only 6 char with a chance vs mk

snake
diddy
olimar
lucairio
yoshi
ddd

why isn't falco on that list o_o
his matchup is like 45:55 at worst at the highest level of play.

 

[Snowstalker]

The top 10 should be:

Falco
Snake
DK
Yoshi
Bowser
Diddy
Zamus
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Kirby

 

[Oddler]

Deva - Link
DieSuperFly - MK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMen9KvflM

 

[Big Red]

1. Deva's crazy
2. Link owns Norfair
3. Although it was a mm, it wasn't in tourney

 

[Wylde]

Pieman if you plz lrn2read, there is a ; in there. All the characters that I stated should be on the list EXCEPT for yoshi, because he gets gimped/prioritized/no advantage.

 

[Dynamism?]

This is pretty much just a match up thread and should be in MK discussion XD

Anywhoziez

The best MKs around lose to the following characters and say that these characters have the advantage over MK. Whether it's Azens Lucario or Ninlinks Diddy beating M2K, Allys Snake or axelolz DK beating Clouderz, Sliqs Bowser winning or Chus Kirby winning, these are the general concepts that the best players seem to have as far as who beats MK.

These are the difficult match ups for MK. Maybe not difficult but actually an up hill battle for him rather than the other way around. Some of these match ups have been proven but others are just perceptions and educated guesses of what the future will shortly show. Characters with clear advantages by all views are Snake, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong and Olimar

Also under consideration as even or close to match ups that could swing either way for advantages or disadvantages are Lucario, Yoshi, Falco, Bowser, Zero-Suit Samus and Ice Climbers

Marth, Kirby, Luigi and Lucas have all shown to have a way to beat MK but still not good. MK is probably one of Marth and Luigis worst match ups but they still do much better against him than most.

Mario can't beat MK, or so it's considered unwinnable. Recently UpB has made the match up not nearly as bad but it's still nearly automactically MKs.

Just thought I'd shead some light on this.

 

[AlAxe]

Diddy should be at the top of this list. Then Snake. The rest I don't know enough about.

 

[Snowstalker]

Anyone who seriously thinks that Olimar, DK, and Diddy have the advantage over MK needs to be shot. Snake is debatable, and I consider him to be 55:45 MK's favor.

My new opinion:

Falco
Snake
Bowser
Diddy Kong
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Mr. Game & Watch
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario

 

[Brother J]

Jigglypuff for Top tier... Rest out of Tornado is good.

 

[Deleted member]

lol @ link's position

we're so screwed.... lol

 

[Wylde]

Snake
Diddy
Falco
DK
GaW imo.

 

[basilioyugi]

how the heck is samus at bottom, samus can give match to meta, samus z air prevents meta getting close horizontally, up smash fire prioritizes every meta air attack aproach, in the floor front tilt and down tilt prioritize mk land aproaching and samus can spike meta out of his loop(up- b)

i would say samus is high he just need to play in a campy defensive way and patienntly and samus can give u a surprise

 

[basilioyugi]

how the heck is samus at bottom, samus can give match to meta, samus z air prevents meta getting close horizontally, up smash fire prioritizes every meta air attack aproach, in the floor front tilt and down tilt prioritize mk land aproaching and samus can spike meta out of his loop(up- b)

i would say samus is high he just need to play in a campy defensive way and patienntly and samus can give u a surprise

 

[Xyro77]

how the heck is samus at bottom, samus can give match to meta, samus z air prevents meta getting close horizontally, up smash fire prioritizes every meta air attack aproach, in the floor front tilt and down tilt prioritize mk land aproaching and samus can spike meta out of his loop(up- b)

i would say samus is high he just need to play in a campy defensive way and patienntly and samus can give u a surprise

totaly 100% wrong. samus CAN NOT EVER do well against a good meta. trust me, i know.

 

[Remzi]

Link is extremely underrated against Meta IMO. Sure he gets gimped EXTREMELY easy, but he stands more of a chance than some of the characters above him. He has great vertical kill power and his bombs rip through a lot of Meta's approaches. And his long ranged shield grab works better than many others considering the large shield push back on many of his attacks.

 

[Orion*]

Actually, even dittos aren't even in Brawl. Port advantage.

best post evar

10sigs

 

[prOAPC]

Lucas should be higher, PK Fire stops tornado, pk thunder tail stops all his b moves when used to recover (not down b), and jab is really great vs MK

 

[Demenise]

Charizard should be higher. From my experience, he does pretty well against Metaknight.

 

[MK26]

Kirby? Mid? lolno. Kirby basically has a better matchup vs. MK than the entirety of High Tier.

I still think this is just a fancy way of writing

Meta Knight's Matchups

50-50 (written here as "God Tier")
MK

55-45 in MK's favour ("High")
Snake
Falco
Yoshi
Bowser
Kirby
Donkey Kong

60-40 ("Mid")
Whoever Else

70-30 ("Low")
People who do really bad against MK

80-20 or worse ("Bottom")
Iunno - Gdorf? CF? Everybody?

It's just a matchup thread. I could make an Anti-Kirby Tier List too. It would look much like the list here, except in reverse.

It would go something like:

Kirby's Matchups

40-60 in opponent's favour ("God")
Marth
G&W
Snake
Zelda
Ice Climbers
ROB

45-55 ("High")
...

cwutididthar?

 

[StarYoshi14]

Yoshi for Top Tier.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I think charizard should be higher.

 

[Gindler]

Pieman if you plz lrn2read, there is a ; in there. All the characters that I stated should be on the list EXCEPT for yoshi, because he gets gimped/prioritized/no advantage.

It's harder to gimp yoshi than it is to gimp snake/falco/dk/bowser. Eggs outprioritze everything from MK, but they do have a fair amount of afterlag. Pretty much all yoshi has is the CG that leads into anything...so yeah he does alright i guess, i'd rather be snake though

 

[yummynbeefy]

well placed exept for ness he should be lower than my other main (pit)

 

[doom dragon 105]

Ike does decent against MK and Marth should be a bit higher

Ike has the range, and MK is light so MK can be KOed at lower %

Marth has the same thing just he is faster than Ike but not as strong

 

[XxBlackxX]

Ike does decent against MK and Marth should be a bit higher

Ike has the range, and MK is light so MK can be KOed at lower %

Marth has the same thing just he is faster than Ike but not as strong

Ike does decent against MK? o_O are you like.....insane? yeah he has range, but is so slow and MK has ways but dealing with every single attack Ike has. More speed, priority, no lag after attacks....MK's gotta be one of Ike's worst matchups...

 

[Master Raven]

Ike's only really significant disadvantage vs MK is that he gets gimped real easily. If it weren't for his awful recovery, it'd probably be 60/40 MK. I think the matchup as it is is 65/35.

DDD does fairly well vs MK. I think it's one of those matchups that can lean anywhere from 55:45 to 60/40.

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

I approve of Yoshi as a legitimate counter, but DK? I don't think that's very good. DK is heavy. MK run circles around DK. Not a good Matchup at all.However, DK has some good aerials to fight him with...I could See DK being mid tier. As well, Falco? How is Falco an MK counter?Do you have data to support this?

 

[Brinzy]

The data is on the character specific boards and the MK board. Try those places.

 

[BibulousDan]

Wouldn't it just be the same list, without metaknight?

toooooooooo true man lol

 

[brinboy789]

I approve of Yoshi as a legitimate counter, but DK? I don't think that's very good. DK is heavy. MK run circles around DK. Not a good Matchup at all.However, DK has some good aerials to fight him with...I could See DK being mid tier. As well, Falco? How is Falco an MK counter?Do you have data to support this?

falco : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208387
DK: Difficulty: 55:45

"On ground:
Some to most Dk players tend to either charge up their Donkey Punch or go straight at their opponent with either their dash attack/down+B for hit box dmg and or their damage racking and tripping Dtilt. WATCH FOR HIS GRABS He can easily stage spike you above 25%, BY ALL MEANS DONT LET DK GRAB YOU!! He can combo you easily like that with his Ftilt Plus can put in a few chain grabs like Fgrab+Forward throw :\. Watch also for his Fgrab+ Down Throw= SPIKE ZONE :\.

Donkey Punch: (AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS)
The donkey punch is deadly when you are punishable, but the thing that makes this move much more deadlier than it is at max power, is when it's ONE swing away from a full 10 rotations. At 9 rotations not only does it give dk extra % dmg but it also gives HUGE knockback almost as hard as ness/lucas up+b when they hit you O___O so watch if he counts his swings as it can kill u at like 30% near the edge just from knockback alone. Also watch for a double donkey punch *hard to do, not to much to worry about*. the day i see a metaknight get hit by one of those is an easy stock loss for myself o.o'.

Aggressive Dk:
An approachin Dk will usually use his tilts against you as his range is WAY farther than ours of course. Watch for his D-tilt as it can rack an easy 30% with just 2-3 hits, also beware of tripping because when timed perfectly a Dk can Fsmash you. So try to DI out of this as quickly as possible to reduce chance of damage and tripping. If he keeps spammin tilts punish him through the air with fairs and dairs especially. Try also NOT to roll dodge as he will punish you greatly with his fast Dsmash. Spot dodging works SO well against a DK because of his SUPER LAG. Punish him with any combo you wish to use ^_^, i personally suggest either a dgrab/dair/fair combo.

Campy DK:
they will 99% of the time charge a dk punch first and wait for u. Most predictable Dk's will down+B most characters but with us, might switch it up with a Fsmash. Get to the skies here and fly towards him with some dairs or fairs .

You in the Air:
Dk can be both easy and difficult while were in the air :\. never in the middle *sighs*
Watch for his Uptilt as it can rack easy 30+% on u when successful. Try avoiding each hit with an air dodge. Be also weary that he can dash attack using his Upsmash. It comes out really quick so be careful when in the air while hes on ground. Punish when appropriate.

Dk in the Air:
Bair,Bair,Bair...rudest combo ever for DK >___< it has such far range that it out reaches our sword most of the time T_T. A Dk "CAN" edgeguard a metaknight player ONLY if you fall for it. Just play it smart and take advantage of our gliding/fly count.
When edge guarding a Dk I HIGHLY suggest you Dair him below stage instead of attempting to shuttle loop gimp him. Here's why: His Up+B has insane horizontal recovery PLUS our shuttle loop cant hit it unless DIRECTLY under him :\. If your not quick enough at gimping him he WILL take a chance at either Fair/Forward+B or Dair spiking you, so watch out when he's above you. You can easily gimp him if you dair him fast enough that his horizontal recovery is useless.

When flying back to stage:
A Dk attempting to edgeguard you WILL use 1 of 2 tricks if not both.
1: he will do the Bair combo :\
2: he will do the fast fall Up+B edgegrab

to counter 1:
Just either fly away from it or nado him :\ it's rather difficult to fair him while a DK is being so *****y about his feet -_-'.

to counter 2:
DO NOT FALL FOR THIS!!! It can totally humiliate us. This tech works against ALL players BUT a chance of survival goes in favor of kirby/ddd/snake/other good recovery characters and urs truly metaknight.
He can gimp you like this and possibly a huge chance of stage spiking you if your deep in the DK hurricane xD. What i advise you to do is just ignore his attempt and do not try to gimp him. You "can" be succesful with ur shuttle loop stage spike BUT I HIGHLY suggest you just run away as he has much more priority when edge grabbin with his Up+B than we do :\ so an instant death for us is just plain stupid when you can easily avoid it.*try to fly back to stage if you fail ur shuttle loop stage spike YAY HALBERDIN*

Be careful when he combines both -_- cause he will not only make us lose ALL our jumps but also RUIN our shuttle loop :\ so remember a DK attempting to gimp MK, IS "CONSIDERED" A THREAT be careful and avoid it.


Best ways/combos against a DK:
Lots of Fair's and Dairs. Gimp him ASAP!!! Never give DK players a chance to hit NEVER!!!
whorenado is VERY useful against Dk as he's such a huge target. Your Dtilt is also useful as it has priority over his Dtilt (abuse it if u can). Punish Dk for ALL HIS LAGS."

copy and paste ftw

 

[Tianxiazhai]

I thought kirby was a 40:60 matchup

 

[Will_]

Lower DK, MK is one of my most hated matchups. Tornado dominates the air and still does extremely well on the ground. Even w/o the nado DK's poor fair/dair leaves a large area of him uncovered for large aerial strings by MK. Try to camp and he'll play with you by mixing around spaced tilts and nado/shuttle loop/dsmash. He can even gimp your recovery for ****'s sake.

tbh, Kirby>DK when fighting MK. Diddy>DK, etc.

 

[arch knight]

Lower DK, MK is one of my most hated matchups. Tornado dominates the air and still does extremely well on the ground. Even w/o the nado DK's poor fair/dair leaves a large area of him uncovered for large aerial strings by MK. Try to camp and he'll play with you by mixing around spaced tilts and nado/shuttle loop/dsmash. He can even gimp your recovery for ****'s sake.

tbh, Kirby>DK when fighting MK. Diddy>DK, etc.

well spoken nados eat DKs and if you drill up or shuttle loop after drill you get a DK in the open air as well basically saying PULL! and unleashing an air raid of MK slashes and nadoes

 

[Deoxys]

This list depends heavily on what stages are allowed in a given environment. Thus I can only show how it is with starters:

45/55-55/45 Tier
Snake
Game&Watch
Zero-Suit Samus
Wario
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Yoshi
Falco
Pikachu
Olimar

After this I'm much less confident on how they should be exactly ordered, but I feel it should look like:

Soft Countered Tier 55/45 < matchup </= 65/35
Donkey Kong
Peach
Lucario
Bowser
Charizard
King Dedede
Zelda
Marth
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Ness
Fox

Hard Countered Tier 65/35 < matchup < ~85/15
Toon Link
ROB
Sheik
Squirtle
Sonic
Pit
Ike
Lucas
Jigglypuff
Link
Samus
Ivysaur
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[Keitaro]

The top 10 should be:

Falco
Snake
DK
Yoshi
Bowser
Diddy
Zamus
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Kirby

Yoshi should be in mid-high, not top. Diddy should be either best or right under Snake.

Looks like some people are smoking some of that crazy new stuff that makes you say weird things.

 

[Flamingo]

Very cool thread.