sniperworm
Smash Ace
I'm curious why Zelda is grouped in here with a bunch of low tiers seeing as Zelda's match up versus MK isn't that bad...
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Anti-Meta Knight Discussion
- Thread starter DerpDaBerp
- Start date
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I think he just doesn't know how Zelda vs. MK works so he put Zelda in there twice for emphasis as to how little he knows about that fight. (Just joking about that last bit.)
You can 'equalize' the fact that they probably don't have matchup experience with the fact that I don't even main Ness ;P
Ref - Ness has a 40-60 or 45-55 matchup versus MK. It just happens to be better than most characters ^_^
DarkThundah
Smash Apprentice
Diddy Kong should be top. Nannerz **** meta. And Falco could be a candidate for number 1 or 2. Not sure why Bowser is so high, but I guess if thats the consensus.
Its not all about air in a Diddy vs. MK; Diddy is progressing to be a potential MK counter in the diddy forums.
I agree.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Oh well, it's better than listening to people ***** about MK all day.
Yeah. It's nice to have a discussion that's not about banning MK for once.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
First, why the hell isn't metaknight on this list? He's the most effective MK counter, and if you disagree, putting him on the list is a very important gague as to how effectively everyone else deals with him. I.E. Can you deal with meta better or worse than meta himself can.
Second, luigi is way too high on that list. MK is a worse counter to luigi than D3 is, and D3 has a one grab stock on luigi.
Second, luigi is way too high on that list. MK is a worse counter to luigi than D3 is, and D3 has a one grab stock on luigi.
Veng
Smash Ace
This is a good idea but it confused.
Theres 3 possible lists this could be and I read the OP but still couldnt figure it out till I saw yoshi on top..
Could be a who does the best against MK ( which this is, I think )
or who does the best if you take MK out, which would be just... the same without MK
or if you factor in that MK hard counters a lot of people that even it would take more reordering then takin MK out..
just thought id say that... does yoshi really hard counter MK that much? I thought Olimar was the best MK counter.
Theres 3 possible lists this could be and I read the OP but still couldnt figure it out till I saw yoshi on top..
Could be a who does the best against MK ( which this is, I think )
or who does the best if you take MK out, which would be just... the same without MK
or if you factor in that MK hard counters a lot of people that even it would take more reordering then takin MK out..
just thought id say that... does yoshi really hard counter MK that much? I thought Olimar was the best MK counter.
Ruse
Fox
Uhhhh. Why in the h*** is Olimar so low and Yoshi so high?
Katapultar
Smash Lord
Maybe a reason why some of these characters are good against MK? Such as having a good stun move
or whatever. Maybe I have to guess... Such as range like Wolfs Fsmash
or whatever. Maybe I have to guess... Such as range like Wolfs Fsmash
Wylde
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Messages
- 36
Imo: Snake; Donkey Kong, Falco, Diddy; Yoshi shouldnt even be on there. Ik he has a chaingrab, but if he screws it up he gets a dsmash to the face, and if he goes CG to spike, the mk can recover unless its at a high percent. The spike has to be frame perfect as well, and is very unlikely.
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
1. Falco
2. Yoshi
3. Diddy
4. Bowser
5. DK
My opinion... *lol falco fan*
2. Yoshi
3. Diddy
4. Bowser
5. DK
My opinion... *lol falco fan*
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
it seems it is time for me to go back to my SSB64 main(yoshi)
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
*sigh* I guess they don't call them "smash noobs" for nothing...
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
Dear God, ok look, if you didn't read the P.S. at the beginning, let me reiterate:
The purpose of this thread is to explore the most viable options for combating the most formidable character in the game. MK himself may be considered the only real even matchup so...
1. If we already have that confirmed, there's no need to include him, listing what we KNOW is superfluous and not really up for debate, this is meant to guide exploration into options we aren't certain of. UNDERSTAND?
2. If we all just settle now with the assumption that MK is the only worthy counter, you may as well suggest that MK be the only character anyone ever plays at any time. "I'll probably win the tourney if I'm MK, so I'll just train with him." "If he's gonna use MK, I'll have to as well if I want any chance."
EXPAND YOUR FREAKIN HORIZONS
Is this a joke? DUH!!
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
THANK YOU, that's exactly the purpose
I think putting MK on the list is a good idea. He wouldn't be at the top of the list. What you're doing is figuring out who is the best against metaknight, and knowing where the 1:1 ratio is would be a good thing. For example, the top tiers have an advantage over MK. Does High tier have an advantage? Or are they just even? Putting MK on the list would help draw a line of who is better, who is even, and who is worse against him.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Which top tiers have an advantage on MK?
Frown
poekmon
I think the top 3 or something have 50:50
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
I think this was assumed in the first place but no one (currently) has a definite and consistant advantage over Meta Knight. He is (currently) the best contender for himself, which is also a 50:50. If I put him in the list, he would be at the top. If making a list based on fighting a single character hasn't already implied the magnitude of the challenge we face, then let me say again: He would (currently) be placed on top and (currently) wouldn't be challenged for the spot. The list is meant to guide an exploration into combating MK by showing the most likely contenders (Snake, Falco, etc.) and hoping that it can........ "inspire" the development of potential anti-MK strategies. When the people manage to deal with MK well enough to the point where he's no longer considered the best against himself, I'll include him. But for now, there's no point
That 1:1 ratio you're talking about, the "middle ground", well, it's currently higher than the Top category
CR4SH
Smash Lord
You're hilarious. Wow.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
NOOOO.... Jigglypuff is finally starting to get the credit she deserves in how she can counter metaknight... Now it won't be a surprise. 
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
Actually, even dittos aren't even in Brawl. Port advantage.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
uh.... that's not true as long as we're still regarding the pokemon as they are before getting "tired". And even afterwards I bet Char. is still better than Ganondorf
?
whatever
nice
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
In what alternate universe is this an advantage?
Wylde
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Messages
- 36
Want to reason your logic instead of acting like you're infallible and being a complete moron in the process?
Snakes Grenades/grenade counter-like move deal with nado. Snakes weakness is only being gimped, and thats why you recover high with him. Donkey Kong, with perfect spacing and 9wind spam, is....amazing. Most MK's cannot deal with diddy kong very well, neither can most players in general. Falcos lasers stop nado, make MK approach, and falco can 0-60%. (Cg to 45%, then gatling combo)
...and you have yoshi on your list....lmaooooo
alright so he has a cg to death.....1. Yoshis dash grab sucks. The need for his pivot grab is HUGE. MK is a hard character to grab, and if the MK properly dj camps with Dair..the yoshi cant do anything. Yoshis MAYBE only neat thing is his armor during his 2nd jump.
Yet again, the yoshi will have to grab MK at a percent where he is killable from the spike (seriously, just meteor cancel with jumps and come back up, its not hard), and still land the spike frame perfect.
IrArby
Smash Ace
Snake also has the disadvantage of having pre/post lag on alot of his moves. Donkey Kong has a very predictable recovery and his range is only slightly better than MK's but his has a disjointed hitbox so . . .
What does Diddy have other than bananas? Most MKs approach with Fairs anyway so I don't see what the problem is. If you know please elaborate. And Falco can only CG MK for 45% if he grabs him on one end and CGs to the other and a competent MK won't be gimped aftwards. Besides, MK doesn't die till over 150% usually. Damage counts for a lot less in Brawl especially against the character who is probably hardest to kill.
Also to whomever said it: Port advantage isn't not exlusive to Brawl and dittos in other smash games are still called 50/50.
What does Diddy have other than bananas? Most MKs approach with Fairs anyway so I don't see what the problem is. If you know please elaborate. And Falco can only CG MK for 45% if he grabs him on one end and CGs to the other and a competent MK won't be gimped aftwards. Besides, MK doesn't die till over 150% usually. Damage counts for a lot less in Brawl especially against the character who is probably hardest to kill.
Also to whomever said it: Port advantage isn't not exlusive to Brawl and dittos in other smash games are still called 50/50.
Wylde
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Messages
- 36
Arby, Falco can cg to 45 % and then do a gatling combo (dash attack to upsmash [unaviodable] for that extra 15%)
I SAID an MK wont be gimped afterwords.
You honestly don't know how amazing diddy's bananas are.
and btw the list is about best MK counters. Just because he doesnt have anything that completely kills MK, doesnt mean he isn't one of the best counters available.
I SAID an MK wont be gimped afterwords.
You honestly don't know how amazing diddy's bananas are.
and btw the list is about best MK counters. Just because he doesnt have anything that completely kills MK, doesnt mean he isn't one of the best counters available.
Frown
poekmon
Well, what I meant was that MK has no disadvantages.
DerpDaBerp
Smash Champion
Temper temper
1. You say Snake, Falco, Donkey Kong, Diddy and Yoshi shouldn't be on there. Then you vouch for them all suddenly (except Yoshi) and just contradict yourself. WTF
2. You're totally discounting Yoshi's ability to fight MK just because his grab is somewhat hard to get. WHAT?! You can't base total effectiveness off of that little tidbit! Not to mention how you vouch for Falco based on his chaingrab. That by itself will not win a match and it's not guaranteed to work anyway. Think about this: No one would be suggesting Yoshi's viability if that singular flaw was really so glaring. Even the MK matchup thread says MK and Yoshi are 55:45 respectively. Don't rag on the informed people you happen to disagree with just because you obviously can't comprehend the idea of a good Yoshi player. This game isn't as linear as you apparently think; singular obstacles and advantages aren't all-encompassing on a character's effectiveness
Bob Jane T-Mart
Smash Ace
This is the ranks from the Meta Knight Board:
Meta Knight first in any of the ratios to avoid confusion.
1.55:45 Snake, Falco, Donkey Kong
2.60:40 DDD, ROB, Olimar, Game & Watch, Wario (prepare for the Controversial bit) Diddy Kong, Yoshi, Charizard, Bowser, Toon Link, Peach
3.65:35 Squirtle, Pickachu, Lucario, Wolf, Marth
4. 70:30 Ike, Ivysaur
That is from the Unofficial Meta Knight Match up Thread. Unfortunately the list isn't complete yet. So i'll update it
Meta Knight first in any of the ratios to avoid confusion.
1.55:45 Snake, Falco, Donkey Kong
2.60:40 DDD, ROB, Olimar, Game & Watch, Wario (prepare for the Controversial bit) Diddy Kong, Yoshi, Charizard, Bowser, Toon Link, Peach
3.65:35 Squirtle, Pickachu, Lucario, Wolf, Marth
4. 70:30 Ike, Ivysaur
That is from the Unofficial Meta Knight Match up Thread. Unfortunately the list isn't complete yet. So i'll update it
Gindler
Smash Champion
To start off, yoshi doesn't have an advantage on MK and no one will ever think that.
Well. just like falco, yoshi makes MK approach too, having eggs that outprioritize everything MK can do (MK's dair gets beat by egg throw, and it's easy to nail a MK that's in the air) is kinda nice from a distance and up close you can CG or tilt him, sure MKs not easy to grab but yoshi has one of the easiest times getting a hold of him. Also you've obviously never seen a pivot grab from yoshi, no good yoshi will ever do a standing grab because yes it sucks. I've grabbed MK's out of tornado, drill, well basically anything when he's approaching me. Oh Usmash from yoshi goes through Dair and tornado as well...
Oh, the CG to spike isn't frame related. There's a sweetspot on the edge and if you're on the spot it's so easy to spike the MK (not easy to get on the spot but happens a reasonable amount of time). Oh, and the spike kills at 50% so if you start the CG near 40 you can have it. Oh and CG to Usmash kills at 105ish, sure he doesn't have a ridic Utlit like snake to take care of it but it works.
Big Red
Smash Journeyman
Yoshi should be in mid-high, not top. Diddy should be either best or right under Snake.