Anti-Meta Knight Discussion

[Gindler]

Donkey Punch: (AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS)
The donkey punch is deadly when you are punishable, but the thing that makes this move much more deadlier than it is at max power, is when it's ONE swing away from a full 10 rotations. At 9 rotations not only does it give dk extra % dmg but it also gives HUGE knockback almost as hard as ness/lucas up+b when they hit you O___O so watch if he counts his swings as it can kill u at like 30% near the edge just from knockback alone. Also watch for a double donkey punch *hard to do, not to much to worry about*. the day i see a metaknight get hit by one of those is an easy stock loss for myself o.o'.

Sorry but little things really bother me (with everything not just smash). Lucas' Up+B PKT2 isn't a hard hitter at all, i've survived at 150. Ness's I've killed MK at 1% though before (he tried to edgeguard me though, usual kill percent is 25-30 at point blank), but yeah that 9 swing has power almost as good as ness' for some odd reason. Most DKs prefer the 10 swing for the super armor though.

I do enjoy my yoshi vs. MK fights and they do seem to be about even most of the time (almost never get 2 stocked anyway)

 

[akkon888]

Before anything: Don't be stupid when reading this, otherwise you may think the complete opposite of what I was trying to convey you to think. Also be intelligent and give good reasons for disagreeing with this, if at all.

Wow, um, first off let me say the following: Why do we need to know this, other than for pure curiosity? Also, read the whole text before replying to it please.

Yes. We all know that Metaknight is extremely... unstoppable. We know that he destroys a great deal of the cast. Of course, the point of this thread is to decide who, in the cast, will not be destroyed. This is where purpose becomes confusing.

If you knew that Metaknight was ineffective against, lets just say Lucas. Keep in mind that this is only example, so I don't want to hear any "omg lucas doesnt pwn mk" comments. What would happen? The probable answer is that more people would main Lucas, possibly to the point of him being rank A or S in Ankoku's Ranking List. If we know the answer to this question, Metaknight wins would go way down, because Lucas numbers would go up.

Therefore, IMO, we should not know the answer to this question entirely.

Here is a different situation. Let's say you want to have an Anti-Ganondorf Tier List. The list would probably have a lot of high tier people. What would happen? The answer is that nothing would happen.

Why nothing will happen I will explain, if common sense doesn't act. If a lot of people can kill Ganondorf, does it mean he sucks against that lot of people? Yes, it does, because apparently, that is what a tier list is. It shows the cast in a list from top to bottom, top people being able to deal with more people effectively, bottom people not so much.

However, does this mean Ganondorf sucks more than everyone else?

However, does this mean Metaknight is better than everyone else?

See the similarities? You cannot simply base something as dynamic as human thought on something as static as a tier list, that may or may not be true or not.

Why you need to know this, I don't know. The point is that this method of concrete ranking is much of the time inaccurate. Who knows, maybe it is Ganondorf who owns MK.

I know it seems that I may have put some contradicting messages in this post, that is probably true. And even though they contradict, they say something universal. What that is I can't explain in few words, which is why I spent 10 minutes typing this.

My two cents.

 

[Morrigan]

Nevermind this post.


WHY ON EARTH IS YOSHI SECOND?!

 

[Lovely]

Not only I don't agree with the first post tier list, it's also usless to make a tier list if Meta Knight isn't banned. I think someone already said that.

 

[thatsyournamedude]

Ganondorf shouldn't be on the bottom of the list. He may be slow but he is a heavy hitter against a light character. Metaknight doesn't need to have much damage before Ganon can easily knock him off the side with a combo. If i missed a revision of the list, my appologies.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

This is basically just a matchup thread for metaknight. lol

 

[Throwback]

Olimar & Kirby should be bumped up imo

 

[Sunshine Bear]

Ice Climbers and Pikachu at the top.

 

[Nicole]

Link, Diddy and Falco should be higher. So should Olimar. Yoshi should probably not be #2 on the list.

 

[EWING]

i understand a lot of the theory behind why yoshi is a good mk cp, but i really dont think he should be that high. its all from my own experience, but ive seen good yoshis lose to mediocre metaknights

 

[RizardoLawless]

lol @ captain falcon being higher than Ike

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I'm not sure where Yoshi should rank relative to others, beacuse I do not know everything about all the other charcters, but I do know that Yoshi does well against MK and should at least be in the Top Tier of this list.

@akkon888: Ok I think I see what you're saying there, please correct me if I still dont get it... but, because MK is a top tier character (well for now, he's the best), if we do find out who is a good counterpick, then is that not a good thing? That would balance out the tiers a little more; move MK down a little (if this list is considered at all or if someone just knows a MK cp), and raise the CP char(s) up.

Again please correct me if I got something wrong

Btw the BEST MK CP is the turtle, do not deny the turtle. Amazing priority, top tier material... extremely good for spacing with its long reach, fast start up, and it has little lag after shorthopping it.

Turtle for Top tier

( I'm joking btw, Im not saying G&W for top tier, im talking about the TURTLE )


To those who don't really get why Yoshi is good against MK, (im not sure if this is said yet but oh well) one of the best things he has against MK that I can think of, is his CG release to Fair spike. The combo really isnt hard to do at all, you just have to do it a couple times only to get an idea of how to time the Fair. Once MK gets grabbed, he's either dead or gets a good 35% dmg (considering that you CGed MK across the stage, as in about 4 grabs). And also, it doesn't matter what MK's percent is while Yoshi does this, the combo works at any %.

 

[Plum]

I'm not sure where Yoshi should rank relative to others, beacuse I do not know everything about all the other charcters, but I do know that Yoshi does well against MK and should at least be in the Top Tier of this list.

@akkon888: Ok I think I see what you're saying there, please correct me if I still dont get it... but, because MK is a top tier character (well for now, he's the best), if we do find out who is a good counterpick, then is that not a good thing? That would balance out the tiers a little more; move MK down a little (if this list is considered at all or if someone just knows a MK cp), and raise the CP char(s) up.

Again please correct me if I got something wrong

Btw the BEST MK CP is the turtle, do not deny the turtle. Amazing priority, top tier material... extremely good for spacing with its long reach, fast start up, and it has little lag after shorthopping it.

Turtle for Top tier

( I'm joking btw, Im not saying G&W for top tier, im talking about the TURTLE )


To those who don't really get why Yoshi is good against MK, (im not sure if this is said yet but oh well) one of the best things he has against MK that I can think of, is his CG release to Fair spike. The combo really isnt hard to do at all, you just have to do it a couple times only to get an idea of how to time the Fair. Once MK gets grabbed, he's either dead or gets a good 35% dmg (considering that you CGed MK across the stage, as in about 4 grabs). And also, it doesn't matter what MK's percent is while Yoshi does this, the combo works at any %.

Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop has super armor on it that will go right through the Turtle every time
The move is practically useless in the matchup if the MK knows what they are doing.

 

[Fyist]

Yoshi doesnt counter Meta.... when will people learn this?

 

[RyanPF]

Yoshi doesnt counter Meta.... when will people learn this?

Nobody counters MK... but Yoshi gets about as close as anybody else out there.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

MK destroys Yoshi in every other aspect. I think the only other advantage Yoshi has got is that his eggs break the Tornado.

 

[§leepy God]

MK destroys Yoshi in every other aspect. I think the only other advantage Yoshi has got is that his eggs break the Tornado.

You forgot more stun moves, more knock back etc. I think Yoshi Bomb can break the Tornado, I'm just guessing.

Also, to me, a tier with out Meta Knight will make King Dedede the best character because of his grab range, useful projectiles, great recover, and killer knockback.

 

[Crizthakidd]

the list is easily

Snake
Diddy
(someone)
olimar
Yoshi
DDD
Lucario?

 

[RyanPF]

MK destroys Yoshi in every other aspect. I think the only other advantage Yoshi has got is that his eggs break the Tornado.

Eggs, grabs, and egg lay all go through the tornado. I can't remember if b-air does or not. Egg Roll clanks with Tornado. Yoshi also has a chaingrab and a spike or u-smash out of grab release. Yoshi does have a few things going for him in that matchup.

 

[Hydra.]

Jigglypuff shouldnt be in high.
Fox is 3rd fastest and heavyr then MK I believe..
If all else fails fox can do his blaster camp and run away, repeat.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Jigglypuff shouldnt be in high.
Fox is 3rd fastest and heavyr then MK I believe..
If all else fails fox can do his blaster camp and run away, repeat.

Fox is lighter than MK actually.

Fox can't blast camp because, his blaster sucks. What is he going to do when MK gets clsoe and starts zoning and spacing him?

 

[.Marik]

Yoshi's a perfect Counter-Pick against MetaKnight.

 

[Llumys]

Olimar is ridiculously too low on this list.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

Yoshi's a perfect Counter-Pick against MetaKnight.

Except for his gimpability. Nobody's a counterpick to MK. Counterpick implies that it creates an advantage, which is just not possible against MK. This list is to determine who reduces MK's advantage the most.

 

[fromundaman]

Eggs, grabs, and egg lay all go through the tornado. I can't remember if b-air does or not. Egg Roll clanks with Tornado. Yoshi also has a chaingrab and a spike or u-smash out of grab release. Yoshi does have a few things going for him in that matchup.

Bair does NOT go through tornado.

Also, I personally think Kirby should be higher. The matchup is practically even, and a defensive Kirby has a VERY good chance of winning vs MK. The only real problem he faces is grounded SL.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

I liked what you done and Im glad that you support Falcon but, falcon still isn't that high xD probably never will. I mean Idk but Link is higher than Falcon. =I

 

[Excellence]

You really should jump Olimar up, a lot, a lot, a lot. Like fourth from the top a lot.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth is much too high.

 

[Panix]

Bair does NOT go through tornado.

Also, I personally think Kirby should be higher. The matchup is practically even, and a defensive Kirby has a VERY good chance of winning vs MK. The only real problem he faces is grounded SL.

Kirby = B (sucks up, spits out) now have mega amzinging prority move!1!!! (i don't think his priority changes with the nado, does it?)

 

[Cease Tick]

Bair does NOT go through tornado.

Also, I personally think Kirby should be higher. The matchup is practically even, and a defensive Kirby has a VERY good chance of winning vs MK. The only real problem he faces is grounded SL.

This. It's 55:45 MK, bump him up.

As far as Yoshi goes, pivot grabs supposedly work really well against approaching MKs. I'm no Yoshi main, though.

EDIT:

Kirby = B (sucks up, spits out) now have mega amzinging prority move!1!!! (i don't think his priority changes with the nado, does it?)

Kirby's 'nado isn't very good, MK's rips right through it >.<

 

[Olimarman]

You really should jump Olimar up, a lot, a lot, a lot. Like fourth from the top a lot.

Seriously. Its nothing against you personally, but people are so naive when it comes to Olimar's matchups. Oli v Mk is easily like 55:45 Mk's favor at most.

 

[ExCeL 52]

Edit: Double post.. crap

 

[ExCeL 52]

Seriously. Its nothing against you personally, but people are so naive when it comes to Olimar's matchups. Oli v Mk is easily like 55:45 Mk's favor at most.

Ha haha hahaha your funny... you made me laugh.

 

[AranOcean]

Sorry dood. Yoshi is NOT top tier. No matter how much you want him to be, he's just not. Jiggz is also too high. Low-high to High-mid tier is about right.

 

[fromundaman]

Kirby = B (sucks up, spits out) now have mega amzinging prority move!1!!! (i don't think his priority changes with the nado, does it?)

Oh god... I repeat this over and over in the Kirby boards: Kirbynado sucks! It might be a sub-par move if you didn't have to play against MK to get it, but considering you do, it's utter garbage. The area is so small that every single one of MK's aerials rips through it. On top of that, even if you *do* manage to catch him in it, you won't get much damage in before MK escapes, even without DI. With DI he can easily DI up and take 2% or less then Dair you. All in all, it's a terrible move for Kirby. Inhale is MUCH better...

Sorry dood. Yoshi is NOT top tier. No matter how much you want him to be, he's just not. Jiggz is also too high. Low-high to High-mid tier is about right.

Nope, nowhere near it, but he IS good vs MK.

 

[Sky`]

Seriously. Its nothing against you personally, but people are so naive when it comes to Olimar's matchups. Oli v Mk is easily like 55:45 Mk's favor at most.

/10wrongs.

 

[Eight 52]

Lol Yoshi countering MK. Just tornado right above Yoshi's nose, slightly ahead of the nose and above. It's Yoshi's biggest blind spot, and you can win by attacking from there with just about anyone. Simple thing is to not go below the top of Yoshi's nose, or else you'll be grabbed.

 

[fromundaman]

Lol Yoshi countering MK. Just tornado right above Yoshi's nose, slightly ahead of the nose and above. It's Yoshi's biggest blind spot, and you can win by attacking from there with just about anyone. Simple thing is to not go below the top of Yoshi's nose, or else you'll be grabbed.

Ummm... you know egg toss breaks tornado right?

Also, Yoshi doesn't counter MK. At all. The matchup is 60-40 for MK. But he doesn't do too bad against him, and if the MK player doesn't know the matchup, odds are they will lose.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Ah this list is so much better now.

 

[Gindler]

Ummm... you know egg toss breaks tornado right?

Also, Yoshi doesn't counter MK. At all. The matchup is 60-40 for MK. But he doesn't do too bad against him, and if the MK player doesn't know the matchup, odds are they will lose.

You nado in right when you see the startup of the egg toss. You want to be just out of tongue range and just barely above it then there's nothing yoshi can really do. If you're too far you can take and egg, too high you'll be Usmashed, and too close and low you can be pivot grabbed. Just try and stay in the blindspot (peach is really annoying when she just hovers there). Oh, sometimes, just sometimes Bair goes through tornado but more often then not tornado wins...