The HARDEST Match-Up(s) For Each Character - Block 4: Olimar, Pikachu & Kirby.

[Ree301]

Captain Falcon...to all. Just a suggestion because I haven't been seeing it; when you posters give your opinions on why a character has a hard time against another character, state why so us readers can learn a little something from each others experience with these fights.

 

[xDD-Master]

Did you ever played a Luigi with Diddy xD ?

Go and try it, it's a Pain, cause your whole naner game is wrecked...

I know Marth is bad too, but I think Luigi is harder...

You can still use some Naner Tricks against him I think.

 

[ice_cream_man]

Yeah it's a toughie both luigi and marth are hard match ups. Marth can apply constant pressure and keep you from controlling your bananas and easily catch them with his fair. Luigi is pretty much immune to bananas, and can combo diddy really well with all his aerials. and also kills diddy at like 50 with up b and like 80 with fsmash. Ridiculous. His nado is also great at gimping the barrels, but i'd say marth is much better at gimping with his fair. If diddy has to use barrells against marth he's pretty much screwed

 

[xDD-Master]

I posted the question of diddys hardest Match-Up in the Diddy Q&A thread (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7444192#post7444192). Lets see what they say.

Also I changed the weeks into blocks, cause I think weeks last too long, especially when the hardest MU is already decided very early.

 

[Master Raven]

GW: Snake
Marth: MK
Diddy: Luigi, Marth

 

[TreK]

Did you ever played a Luigi with Diddy xD ?

Go and try it, it's a Pain, cause your whole naner game is wrecked...

I know Marth is bad too, but I think Luigi is harder...

You can still use some Naner Tricks against him I think.

Diddy's fair>luigi. It beats averything luigi has but with weird spacing you only get by practicing against good luigis. You shouldn't rely on naners against luigi, just to trap him into not using his cyclone.

It must be marf... Or kos-mos lol
I have more troubles against snake as marth than against MK... should i gtfo ? xD

idk about gaw, never played him seriously. One of my crewleaders plays him and often johns about snakes, so that must be him. Camping>gaw

 

[Plum]

G&W: You really mine as well put both Snake and Marth down. That one really depends player to player. I have an easier time with Snake than Marth personally. Turn on the gay and outcamp Snake (sounds crazy... but give G&W some platforms and you can see him outcamp Snake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMs80f6dOg&fmt=18 ) but Marth can just constantly outrange and Up B his way through anything.

Marth: MK

Diddy: Don't really know, so not going to vote and mess things up...

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

The hardest matchup for Kirby is not snake.

Snake players tremble at my kirby.

ZSS players lol @ my kirby.

ZSS is Kirby's worst matchup.

 

[xDD-Master]

ZSS is Kirby's worst matchup.

I agree Kirby cant do any **** against her... I can only say this from my own experience. But the majority of people say Snake...

@IAP: He's doing it wrong !!! XD Well OK I really dont know the MU Gaw vs. Marth, I only know that Snake owns Gaw (Own Experience)... Gaw can Nair (Juggle him), Bair a little bit and Fair him out of Cypher, but thats it, Dair is too risky and when you look at the vid the Gaw is hitting him with Dair, so the Snake player does something wrong.

 

[tocador]

Diddy: Luigi

Dont you dare say marth lol =/, we at diddy boards are almost considering Marth vs Diddy even...

 

[Marcbri]

Why is Marth Diddy's worst match-up ? ._.
Marth is good against diddy, but hardest match-up? I think there are other characters that are harder for Diddy.

 

[Pr0phetic]

For Marth it is still MK.

And for D3 I thought it was the ICs?

 

[AvaricePanda]

Diddy's worst isn't Luigi either. While you can't use standard banana combos because of the sliding, but that doesn't mean the matchup is harder. Camp stupidly, space by making him slide back with bananas, and keep a wall of fair; Luigi's range isn't good.

A lot of Diddy's are considering Peach as Diddy's worst matchup considering what Kos-Mos has done to like every single major Diddy main.

Diddy: Peach

 

[Panix]

G&W: You really mine as well put both Snake and Marth down. That one really depends player to player. I have an easier time with Snake than Marth personally. Turn on the gay and outcamp Snake (sounds crazy... but give G&W some platforms and you can see him outcamp Snake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMs80f6dOg&fmt=18 ) but Marth can just constantly outrange and Up B his way through anything.

Marth: MK

Diddy: Don't really know, so not going to vote and mess things up...

Nubbiest snake I've ever saw, any snake that drops a nade and throws it instantly.....about 200 times in a match, is a pure nub.

Link him to the "cooking nades" section of the snake boards -.-

 

[Anth0ny]

Game and Watch: Snake
Marth: MK
Diddy: Marth

 

[fource]

Simple Question:

Who is Diddys hardest Match-Up ?

Is it Luigi or Marth or another character ?


Post it at best here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233968

Not a simple question.

Why is Marth Diddy's worst match-up ? ._.
Marth is good against diddy, but hardest match-up? I think there are other characters that are harder for Diddy.

We argue that because his aerials allow him to manipulate the banana game pretty well. All attacks out prioritize ours. He is virtually impossible to gimp and he can gimp us pretty badly.

Overall, Diddy doesn't have a character that hard counters him. So it's just a matter of personal opinion.

A lot of Diddy's are considering Peach as Diddy's worst matchup considering what Kos-Mos has done to like every single major Diddy main.

Diddy: Peach

I don't want to agree with this since I don't play any Peach mains but this seems to be true as of right now.

It's debatable between Marth, Luigi, and Peach.
My vote goes to Peach right now too.

There is a thread in the Diddy boards right now saying the Marth match up is even. In the thread we are discussing how difficult Luigi, Marth, and Peach are. Almost everyone disagrees. The only thing we can agree on is that none of us can currently beat KOS-MOS in a set; which is why my vote goes to Peach.

 

[Underload]

I personally think that Wario and Falco are much worse matchups for Diddy than Marth. Marth has no way of shutting down Diddy's bananas, which are his most valuable tool. Without them, he's just running around either camping with peanuts or using his average air game to try and get consistent KOs.

Wario - his bite should get every single Diddy tense. It's virtually nonpunishable, shuts down bananas, and usually takes priority over most approaches. Wario's amazing aerial mobility keep him off of the ground most of the time anyway, where bananas don't do much at all. With counterpicking mixed in, any stage with platforms (Battlefield, Yoshi's, LYLAT CRUISE) make this matchup near impossible for Diddy.

Falco - Falco's reflector is what makes this matchup bad for Diddy. Virtually nonpunishable, much like Wario's bite, it doesn't take the banana away from the game, but gives "ownership" to Falco (I don't know the term). Falco can easily camp lasers with a banana in his hand (I think?), much like Dedede and his Waddle Dees. Diddy Kongs suffer greatly when the opponent has one of their bananas. Falco's CG spike on Diddy is one of the worst because barrels must be charged, and the downward momentum may kill Diddy in the process. If not that, then more charging will be necessary to recover. Also, Diddy's barrels are one of the most edgehoggable moves in the game, especially from below. Falco follows up with a quick ledgegrab, that means Diddy's stock is gone.

Honestly, I can't see what Marth has over Diddy, can someone tell me?

 

[TreK]

No.
Oh right we're supposed to argue

Marth has no way of shutting down Diddy's bananas

->wrong. Marth has enough defensive options if pressured by naners, can pick them with airdodges or aerial quite easily, and once he has a banana in his hand, he still has his B moves, he's kinda floaty so he can do aerials with bananas, and he has got 1 short and one long glide toss that he can mix up as he wants. If he is able to control not one but both bananas, since he's just rapin' nonana diddys, he has no troubles. Sure good diddys can manage to get around this, but in no way negate these attributes. Marth beats diddy.

Wario - his bite should get every single Diddy tense. It's virtually nonpunishable, shuts down bananas, and usually takes priority over most approaches. Wario's amazing aerial mobility keep him off of the ground most of the time anyway, where bananas don't do much at all. With counterpicking mixed in, any stage with platforms (Battlefield, Yoshi's, LYLAT CRUISE) make this matchup near impossible for Diddy.

kinda true, but this matchup's not impossible at all and you're just over-exaggerating through 6 lines lol
basically, he's harder to get into banana locks, but once he's trapped, it's one stock gone.
the air stuff is true, that's exactly why peach, kirby, marth and wario beat diddy.

Falco - Falco's reflector is what makes this matchup bad for Diddy. Virtually nonpunishable, much like Wario's bite, it doesn't take the banana away from the game, but gives "ownership" to Falco (I don't know the term). Falco can easily camp lasers with a banana in his hand (I think?), much like Dedede and his Waddle Dees. Diddy Kongs suffer greatly when the opponent has one of their bananas. Falco's CG spike on Diddy is one of the worst because barrels must be charged, and the downward momentum may kill Diddy in the process. If not that, then more charging will be necessary to recover. Also, Diddy's barrels are one of the most edgehoggable moves in the game, especially from below. Falco follows up with a quick ledgegrab, that means Diddy's stock is gone.

Reflectors never hurt diddy. Well they did, but we found so much ways around them it's not like they're a roblem anymore, especially falco's which can be dtilted. Lazers sure are a pain, they can wreck up diddy's ground game which is his main advantage. That is, if you panic and feel pressured. PSing ain't easy but so much rewarding diddys know what to do. When the falco's especially good at it, CPing is always an option.
so... just like wario... bad, not worse. this one's close to be the worse, too bad marf and luigi exist lol

 

[xDD-Master]

Diddy = Groundbased
Marth = Air Based

Marths Range > Diddys Range

Banana Game is screwed up cause Marth will be in the Air. And when Diddy goes in the Air he has less Range than Marth.

But Diddy has the Peanut Popgun / Projectiles, this is what makes Marth not the hardest MU, because the marth HAS to Approach.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I've never lost to a Marth in tournament, I never really understood what the complaining was about.

Diddy to me sucks against:
-Luigi

That is basically it, everyone else is just slight advantages either way. Luigi is the only character with a moderate advantage on Diddy.

Also you can bait falco's reflector tons of ways. Two quick examples
-short hop with nana in hand
Falco reflectors thinking you will throw
-Dthrow nana
-Fair falco
PWNED
You can watch this happen many times on youtube in Chillin vs Ninjalink
Also
-Dribble forward
Falco reflectors thinking glide toss forward
-shield
-dash grab

These examples are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[xDD-Master]

OK i take all of them for Diddy Kong because I think there will never been an 100% agreeable hardest match-up for him.

So Block 2 ends:
-----------------
Gaw : Snake, Marth
Marth : MK
Diddy : Marth, Peach, Luigi
-----------------

After all we can re-discuss the unclear Match-Ups again...

So for now:

BLOCK 3!!!
-----------------
Block 3
Wario :
ROB :
Lucario :
-----------------

My opinion:
Wario : Yoshi
ROB : MK
Lucario : -idk-


For Wario: I'm not about Wario cause infinits and all this stuff and I know the peach one isnt a true infinit... but I dont know about the Yoshi one. Maybe it's to hard for Yoshi to grab him in a match, but having an infinit on the oppenant is always a plus for the character.

 

[MysticKenji]

DDD is widely considered Lucario's worst matchup.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Would Marth be GW's worst?

 

[tocador]

I personally think that Wario and Falco are much worse matchups for Diddy than Marth. Marth has no way of shutting down Diddy's bananas, which are his most valuable tool. Without them, he's just running around either camping with peanuts or using his average air game to try and get consistent KOs.

Wario - his bite should get every single Diddy tense. It's virtually nonpunishable, shuts down bananas, and usually takes priority over most approaches. Wario's amazing aerial mobility keep him off of the ground most of the time anyway, where bananas don't do much at all. With counterpicking mixed in, any stage with platforms (Battlefield, Yoshi's, LYLAT CRUISE) make this matchup near impossible for Diddy.

Falco - Falco's reflector is what makes this matchup bad for Diddy. Virtually nonpunishable, much like Wario's bite, it doesn't take the banana away from the game, but gives "ownership" to Falco (I don't know the term). Falco can easily camp lasers with a banana in his hand (I think?), much like Dedede and his Waddle Dees. Diddy Kongs suffer greatly when the opponent has one of their bananas. Falco's CG spike on Diddy is one of the worst because barrels must be charged, and the downward momentum may kill Diddy in the process. If not that, then more charging will be necessary to recover. Also, Diddy's barrels are one of the most edgehoggable moves in the game, especially from below. Falco follows up with a quick ledgegrab, that means Diddy's stock is gone.

Honestly, I can't see what Marth has over Diddy, can someone tell me?

I cant really talk abbout wario vs Diddy because i dont know that MU really well, but i can talk a bit abbout Falco:

The reflector as you say, sure it is really bad for diddy, but it can sometimes scr** falcos game. Firstly because falco need to guess when you are going to throw the nana, and if he guess it wrong, hes open to punish. I mean, there are tons of ways on getting arround the reflector, like crawling + dtilt(you can do this with nana in hands, so yeah its a mindgame), jumping, letting the nana fall, and cathing it with a Dair, etc... There are plenty of ways to get past it.

The CG is bad, but not "losing a stock everytime they use it bad". First cause you can air camp, nana camp and make it hard to the falco getting the grab. Second, you can SDI to stage and tech it nullyfing it. Third, you can diddy hump to the side and recover with barrels not pointing to the edge, therefore preventing a easy edgehog.

Marth can catch nanas preety hardly and has a Aerial/gimping game that shuts diddy completly. The game therefore resolves in diddy taking marth to the ground and comboing him, or him being hardcore punished at the air.

Yeah, and i re-thought diddys hardest mu, and now i can see that Peach is kinda harder then luigi =X!

 

[tocador]

Wario: Dont know =/
ROB: I think zamus or MK if i can remember
Lucario: People say DDD =X

Sorry for the double post

 

[TLMSheikant]

Wario: Marth or Luigi
ROB: MK
Lucario: DDD

 

[demonictoonlink]

Why is lucario DDD?

 

[Alphicans]

GaW's hardest? Probably Marth.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

It's a tie between Marth and Snake. I actually find neither to be that bad as a G&W main, but if I had to pick one over the other, I would say Snake on average has better answers to G&W. Not a terrible matchup at all, but the worst (arguably) G&W has. MK isn't the worst, I think the consensus between Game and Watch main is.

 

[Alphicans]

Really snake? I find Marth 100x harder than snake. Too me snake is just a tower that you just wait and attack when you're the most ready. Marth is like a wave in the ocean, and you try to out swim it, but it comes at you too fast, and you can't make it to the beach.

 

[Pierce7d]

Really snake? I find Marth 100x harder than snake. Too me snake is just a tower that you just wait and attack when you're the most ready. Marth is like a wave in the ocean, and you try to out swim it, but it comes at you too fast, and you can't make it to the beach.

That was a beautiful analogy that makes me proud to be a Marth main.

I personally think Marth is Lucario's worst, but it may be D3.

 

[UTDZac]

Assuming that the opponent understands the matchup perfectly, here are my thoughts for G&W (my main):

1st Hardest: Marth
2nd Hardest: Metaknight
3rd Hardest: Snake

These three can easily get mixed up, it varies greatly by the playstyle of the G&W and of the opponent. I believe Marth has the easiest time shutting down G&W. MK can do it too, but it seems to be easier to get around. Snake is completely different and more limited when it comes to shutting down G&W.

 

[xDD-Master]

OK I added Marth for Gaw...

But like I said we can re-discuss them all when we are finished

Now pls Wario, ROB, Lucario.

Why is lucario DDD?

I dont know, I could think of a spamming Lucario. Otherwise DDD beats him in Range and has the CG.

 

[Rawnie]

Wario: Marth
R.O.B: ZSS only if the infinite is mastered. If not, Meta Knight
Lucario: King Dedede/Marth

 

[Tamoo]

Wario: marth/luigi
ROB: ZZS
Lucario: marth

 

[Gindler]

Diddy's worst isn't Luigi either. While you can't use standard banana combos because of the sliding, but that doesn't mean the matchup is harder. Camp stupidly, space by making him slide back with bananas, and keep a wall of fair; Luigi's range isn't good.

A lot of Diddy's are considering Peach as Diddy's worst matchup considering what Kos-Mos has done to like every single major Diddy main.

Diddy: Peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJx-ZuKTnvQ

First video I saw of Kos-mos

I heard that Wolf can be diddy's hardest matchup thanks to Autocancelled Fair instantly picking up bananas and it gives him something to DACIT into Dsmash with.

Oh, and a floating peach=popgun. She's always right in the arch.

 

[Browny]

Lucario is MK tbh

And im sure most rob users are more afraid of MK than they are of ZSS...

 

[AvaricePanda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJx-ZuKTnvQ

First video I saw of Kos-mos

I heard that Wolf can be diddy's hardest matchup thanks to Autocancelled Fair instantly picking up bananas and it gives him something to DACIT into Dsmash with.

Oh, and a floating peach=popgun. She's always right in the arch.

That was from January. People and matchups are able to change from then. Kos-Mos decided to severely change the way he played his Peach and the matchup and improved in it drastically. Kos-Mos has beaten ADHD, NinjaLink, Le Thien, and others, basically becoming THE Diddy slayer.

More recent matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4KesI4p3bU

And the thread where Le Thien talks about the Peach and Marth matchups
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195024

Why Luigi is listed as one of Diddy's hardest matchups, I'm not sure. Even though Luigi slides when getting hit by bananas, eliminating most of your followups, his range is horrible. Your fair outranges like everything he has, and you can camp much more effectively.

It really should just be Peach and Marth, but in his thread that I posted, we're already contemplating that Diddy vs. Marth could be even with mid-range game. So eh.

Wolf definitely isn't Diddy's hardest. It's difficult yes, but at mid-far ranges Wolf can't do much.

Diddy vs. Falco is even. The reflector isn't even a problem because throwing bananas straight to anyone is stupid anyway. If they spam it, you can monkey flip kick over it, and if they like to use it, then you can bait one by approaching, dribbling back, and monkey flip kicking. You can always do short-hop or full-hop downthrow approach and he can't do like anything about it (he can't do much when you're above him regardless). Falco doesn't really have much on Diddy, IMO it's slightly Diddy's advantage.

Diddy vs. Wario is slightly Wario's advantage, like 55-45. Wario's aircampiness makes your banana power diminished, but unlike Peach and Marth, he doesn't have great aerials for catching them, and unlike Peach, he can't instantly reclaim bananas once a throw has been whiffed. If he's on the ground, Bite is really good for him, although you can do a short hop dthrow and fast fall fair and punish the very slight lag he gets from eating something.

Wario doesn't have good range, which is something you have to abuse in the matchup. Yay fairs. Still, it's his advantage, but not as bad as Peach, IMO.

Anyway, onto the current people.

Wario-Marth
ROB-MK. Even though ZSS has an infinite on him, dsmashes don't often happen, especially not well spaced like it has to be. Rob can still just camp her out and avoid Dsmashes all together. I'm not sure how the matchup is without the infinite though.
Lucario-No clue, lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ROB-MK. Even though ZSS has an infinite on him, dsmashes don't often happen, especially not well spaced like it has to be. Rob can still just camp her out and avoid Dsmashes all together. I'm not sure how the matchup is without the infinite though.

1. The infinite is easy to do and dsmash is not a hard attack to land. We land them all the time, please stop spewing this crap.
2. ROB has a terrible time against ZSS with or without the infinite. Before its discovery it was anywhere from 65:35 to 70:30 and with the infinite it isn't winnable. One dsmash = lost stock.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wario: Marth/Peach
R.O.B.: ZSS
Lucario: G&W/DDD