• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 So now that we know MLG hosts ridiculous smash tournaments...

Status
Not open for further replies.

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
snake also falls under that category IMO, which is why I have a problem with people saying that the results are so diverse, the only diversity problem this game had was META KNIGHT and MLG rules do nothing about him, it just weakens most of A tier making him even more over centralizing. you can use MK, use a good character that does badly on a lot of these stages, or use a bad character, they made the obvious choice even more obvious

ZSS and pika may be placing now, but now MK is taking 3-4x the top spots of his next competitor instead of 2x, lmao(actually he has no competitors, he is the only character that is repeated in the top 8 at either MLG event)
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Lol Conti, you don't get it at all do you?

They'll just have to get over it and use more flexible characters. Simple as that.
Okay, we'll just encourage metaknight! I'M SURE YOU'LL REALLY ENJOY MLG THEN, PEACH MAIN.

ASSEMBLE METAKNIGHT MAINS, WE MUST TAKE OUR DUTIFUL PLACE BACK.

swoosh swoosh swoosh

@ arturrito, get hit with a sludge hammer--not that hard, but still.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
Lol Conti, you don't get it at all do you?

They'll just have to get over it and use more flexible characters. Simple as that.
This right here, has to be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. You do not want to even get me started with "people should play more flexable characters, simple as that" because I will rant until the earth turns black about how metaknight mains should do this and stfu since this is one of their main excuses for not banning their character. Of course, for me to go into this would be a different story, and I do not want to to start a new metaknight ban topic.

The end statement is this: It's not that simple, or it would have been done. You have to make rules that applies to just a select few characters, granting them the benefit of a bigger advantage while ruining others. It is one difference to give a character an edge, but it is another from disabling them from performing well in tournament.

Edit: i am still going to say what I have to say about all of this soon enough, I just didn't have the time lol.
 

MetalMusicMan

Sleepwalk our lives away.
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
5,643
Location
St. Charles, Missouri
This right here, has to be the dumbest statement I have ever heard.

You have to make rules that applies to just a select few characters, granting them the benefit of a bigger advantage while ruining others.

Actually, it was a very smart statement. What you said is just about the dumbest thing ever.

You cannot give a character special rules to make them good. In fact that's the worst idea ever. If a character is bad then they are bad. If they have a bad matchup then you need to train up a secondary character or drop them and play a character with more favorable matchup. Those are the only two options.

KB is taking on all of the repetitious dumb crap in this thread all by himself, look at him go! Haha. Personally I don't have the time but nice work.
 

Damage Points

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
925
Location
Apex, NC
Let's all just get along. It's as simple as getting better with your character on the stagelist. Knowing his strengths and weaknesses and how to apply them.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
12,731
Location
Bellevue, Washington
snake also falls under that category IMO, which is why I have a problem with people saying that the results are so diverse, the only diversity problem this game had was META KNIGHT and MLG rules do nothing about him, it just weakens most of A tier making him even more over centralizing. you can use MK, use a good character that does badly on a lot of these stages, or use a bad character, they made the obvious choice even more obvious
This is completely untrue. MLG results have been more diverse then pretty much every other national tournament.
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
MK got 3 and 4 of top 8 at each event, that seems to be pretty much on par with his norm
 

Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Lol I second snake I guess he's not flexible :p

Anyways I'm not saying a rule change... just I feel a 7stage starter would be more of a compromise because 9 is killing the characters that are good on a conservative list... and 5 is apparently giving them an "incredible" advantage... So 7 can be the balance inbetween...

@adhd... u know what I'm droping diddy and snake cuz they are not flexible characters for mk... MK all day everyday ;]
Victory is my destiny biznitchez :p
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
Lol I second snake I guess he's not flexible :p

Anyways I'm not saying a rule change... just I feel a 7stage starter would be more of a compromise because 9 is killing the characters that are good on a conservative list... and 5 is apparently giving them an "incredible" advantage... So 7 can be the balance inbetween...

@adhd... u know what I'm droping diddy and snake cuz they are not flexible characters for mk... MK all day everyday ;]
Victory is my destiny biznitchez :p
Agreed. Read the ruleset thread for information as to why I think this is way better.

Actually, it was a very smart statement. What you said is just about the dumbest thing ever.

You cannot give a character special rules to make them good. In fact that's the worst idea ever. If a character is bad then they are bad. If they have a bad matchup then you need to train up a secondary character or drop them and play a character with more favorable matchup. Those are the only two options.

KB is taking on all of the repetitious dumb crap in this thread all by himself, look at him go! Haha. Personally I don't have the time but nice work.

LOL! I don't wanna go back on what I said, but I completely worded what I said wrong xD. I actually meant the visa versa. You need to add enough so that it does not cripple characters, but grant other characters a high advantage as well. Sorry for the mis-wording >_<
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
My interpretation of the results, purely anecdotal as I have yet been able to get full data, is that the stage list is relatively a non-factor in how well Meta Knight does. He comprises about half of the well-performing players regardless (a little less usually). What it does matter a great deal toward is the distribution of the other characters. On a conservative stage list, the other characters are not very diverse; guys like Diddy Kong and Falco do really well and eat up big chunks of the remaining placements. On a relative scale, this makes Meta Knight look less dominant since other individual characters can get somewhat close to his performance (though he's always #1). At events with a ruleset like MLG's, the remainder of the cast is absurdly diverse to the point that no one even seems to stand out other than Meta Knight. At Columbus, the only character to appear twice in the top 16 even as a secondary was Meta Knight. Even going down past that, you started to see some repetition but still incredible diversity and more characters who didn't see top 16.

Perhaps a food analogy would make this simpler. Let's say you come from a big family: 14 kids! Now it's dad's birthday (Meta Knight's birthday), and he gets a cake. He immediately cuts half the cake away and takes it for himself, and he tells the rest of you that you can divide the cake among yourselves however you want. One scheme proposed is to mimic dad's method. The oldest (Snake) takes half of the remaining cake, and then going down by age each kid repeats this. Of course, you can't cut an infinitely small piece of cake so the youngest few just don't get any cake at all. Another model is to divide the cake evenly among all of you. Of course, you can't measure perfectly so a few kids get a little more cake, and the youngest kid (Ganon) is allergic to cake so you exclude him, but it ends up pretty close. Of course, dividing that much cake among so many kids naturally means none of you get very much at all, but at least all of you (except young Ganon) get some. Which is the more balanced cake distribution? Under the first model, the oldest kid is able to have a piece big enough to kinda matter in comparison to dad's. However, under the second model, the cake is shared much more fairly even if dad's piece seems ridiculous in comparison to any other individual piece.

I'd also point out that MLG's infinite rules allow a few extra characters to be factors, and it really shows. I doubt we'd have seen nearly as much DK, Luigi, or Ness as we did if not for those rules, for better or for worse. This doesn't really affect Meta Knight, but it just continues to divide up the remaining "cake" among the rest of the cast.
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
5,518
Location
Columbus, Ohio
^ Which is entirely a good thing.

Also, for people who can't play on stages disadvantageous to their character just go and learn them, lol. Or do exactly what people are saying: Pick up someone who can. Seriously, they will make you a better player. You don't hear low-mid tier mains complaining about having to play on stages that they're at a disadvantage on (because we're disadvantaged in matchups period, haha).

Lord knows what would happen if people picked up other characters or became more comfortable with their bad stages, oh god.
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Do you feel the character diversity would occur with a standard EC stagelist and lagless TVs, though? When has this many upsets occured? Never. I guess you could pride your tournament over this, in a way. Yet, randomness, since the beginning of brawl as well as melee has been hastled over to be minimized time and time again. We're just starting over in a mean cycle by doing this.

Alphazealot also thinks hanenbow should be legal (just want to add that in).
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
Play Metaknight, stage problem solved for all enternity, except when:
Lag tvs sounds like the reason that should alone make the results random.

Even though stages like Green greens probably would help G&W (but have a hard time against snake, who get cpd with D3). I´m for diversity in stages, even though I would like to only play "the neutrals" (since being an ICplayer) and would easily give me an upperhand in most sets...

Hanenbow is built for camping and I dont think it would work, hyrule bridge on the other hand would probably work since it´s "Only banned by taking time to play(KO) on, and walkoffs"
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
Obviously a 9 starter stage is a disadvantage to diddy/ic/falco...
No matter how many times you say it, you're still completely wrong.

and A 5 stage starter list is in favor of them...
Thaaaaats more like it.

You're obviously biased, and thats ok. I play diddy in tournaments too, so I understand. But acting like diddy/ics/etc don't DOMINATE the neutrals list just makes you look stupid.


I think the best solution is to simply remove the distinction between "starter" stages and "CP" stages. Since stage striking already serves as a compromise solution to find the fairest stage in any given match-up (and since starter stages are often used to counterpick) you might as well strike the first stage out of the whole stage list.

:059:
I totally agree with this, as I've been saying this for a long time (ask hilt). I like that we think alike gheb, you seem smart. Good **** for bringing this idea to discussion.

KB, keep making sense please. It's a nice change of pace from most of these boards.

Ninja edit: please don't talk about the tv lag. Its like a frame two at worst, they have good tvs and EXCELLENT cables. It doesn't take too long to interpolate when you have the right tech, plus its no different than most CRTs. Great crts have no lag, but most of them have a frame. I've played on plenty of crts with 4 or more frames of lag and nobody said anything because they just assumed crts don't lag.
 

Kel

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
4,605
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Okay, we'll just encourage metaknight! I'M SURE YOU'LL REALLY ENJOY MLG THEN, PEACH MAIN.

ASSEMBLE METAKNIGHT MAINS, WE MUST TAKE OUR DUTIFUL PLACE BACK.

swoosh swoosh swoosh

@ arturrito, get hit with a sludge hammer--not that hard, but still.
You sound pro-ban.


If metaknight is too broken on all these stages and ruins the game, ban metaknight, not stages. Don't change the game for one character. Just remove the character and go about the metagame freely.
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
You sound pro-ban.


If metaknight is too broken on all these stages and ruins the game, ban metaknight, not stages. Don't change the game for one character. Just remove the character and go about the metagame freely.
I don't want to ban the character, despite me feeling his metagame has gotten alot better since last year. It's just the stagelist, bro.
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
5,518
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I do think that MK's metagame will get better when we keep focusing on how to stop him, ADHD. Because then he can find new ways to get better and demonstrate why he's far and away the best character in the game when it comes to adaption.

I think some of the character's metagames are hurt by looking more at "How do we stand a chance against Meta Knight?" Which I feel will make characters look better/go higher in tiers, like honestly believe, instead of truly looking and developing what they do really well against the rest of the cast.

Then again, ^ could be the sentiments of people who play non-viable characters in the first place like myself, though I feel a lot of the high teirs will also suffer/have also suffered from this.

[Edit:] As for the stage list, I've offered my cents on this in rather rude/blunt ways but I don't feel like more diverse (or silly as people can call it) stage lists really hurts more than it helps. It does however, cater to characters that aren't so linear like Ice Climbers, Diddy and Falco.

That does not however mean that they'll already be bad. It's something else they have to worry about (like most of the cast) that the players haven't looked into much and that's where the struggle happens. Falco actually did alright at MLG Columbus, Diddy Kong players pulled upsets, IC's well... they managed to get decently far in.

[Edit 2:] Oh yeah, in terms of metagame development. How are they going to develop if they play in the same type of environment all the time? This should actually help the metagames develop for those characters because it knocks them out of their comfort zones and forces them to adapt.
 

dj asakura

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
840
Location
Peoria, IL
You sound pro-ban.


If metaknight is too broken on all these stages and ruins the game, ban metaknight, not stages. Don't change the game for one character. Just remove the character and go about the metagame freely.
Two things:

1. If banning MK were that easy, it would have been done. I'm sure.

2. Don't change the game for one character? What about these rules in place to keep MK around that "nerf" him? And yet he's still in his own tier and used by more people than he isn't.

More on topic:

Stop complaining about the TV's. It really isn't nearly as bad as anyone is claiming it is. If you're losing because of 1 or 2 frames of lag then something is wrong.
 

Blacknight99923

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
2,315
Location
UCLA
Hanenbow is built for camping and I dont think it would work, hyrule bridge on the other hand would probably work since it´s "Only banned by taking time to play(KO) on, and walkoffs"
realistically green greens walls are as bad as walk offs.......
 

Arturito_Burrito

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
3,310
Location
el paso, New mexico
I hope that all of you saying you want 7 stages instead of 9 are planing on getting rid of FD.

Infact i think the only 2 removed should be halberd (because it is the only thing with hazards on the starter list) and FD because that stage is one of the most unbalanced in the game. It's as good a counter pick for characters as halberd is for snake and brinstar is for mk
 

Karcist

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
362
The stage list is a great idea.... if MK didn't exist (or was banned). It actually does diversify the top outside of MK, so if he wasn't around we would see a healthy variety of characters. MK is just too dominant on too many of the stages though for the current map list to be a good idea at all at the moment.
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
NNID
neohmarth216
Do you feel the character diversity would occur with a standard EC stagelist and lagless TVs, though?
No, I sincerely do not believe character diversity in results would ever be as deep as it has been in these last two events, as has been demonstrated time and time again under the influence of the EC stagelist for the past two years. It has very little to do with the TV lag (one frame if at all; a dead horse of an argument if you ask me) and more to do with the fact that Diddy/ICs/Falco are the ones who now have to deal with the possibility of being put in a tough CP situation instead of having a bunch of flat starter stages and few diverse CP options to abuse against their opponent. That just means they may simply not be as flexible as some other characters (or MK) under these rules. Unfortunate...but not surprising.

What is the solution to this if you are not willing to put forth the effort to learn how to play on these other stages with your character? Simple, play a more flexible character. I will repeat this as many times as I have to because it's the only way to go about this in competitive Smash. Pampering and catering to those three characters who, unfortunately, don't perform as well under this more liberal stagelist is asinine. I'm surprised that some EC players, especially those who pride themselves on competitive views and morals (as was demonstrated in past arguments against liberal stagelist ideas), simply cannot comprehend this fact.

If you cannot bring yourself to use a more flexible character and choose to remain as Diddy throughout the entire course of an MLG tournament, then either suck it up or just don't participate in an MLG event. That's all I can really say on the matter, Wyatt.


When has this many upsets occured? Never. I guess you could pride your tournament over this, in a way. Yet, randomness, since the beginning of brawl as well as melee has been hastled over to be minimized time and time again. We're just starting over in a mean cycle by doing this.
Upsets are suddenly a bad thing now? Please elaborate. All that translated to was bitter Diddy main babble.

In case you haven't noticed (or watched the matches for yourself)...those players who caused said upsets DID WORK and earned those wins. Why even attempt to be slick about taking that credit away?


Alphazealot also thinks hanenbow should be legal (just want to add that in).
And yet it's still not legal, so what's your point?
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
No, I sincerely do not believe character diversity in results would ever be as deep as it has been in these last two events, as has been demonstrated time and time again under the influence of the EC stagelist for the past two years. It has very little to do with the TV lag (one frame if at all; a dead horse of an argument if you ask me) and more to do with the fact that Diddy/ICs/Falco are the ones who now have to deal with the possibility of being put in a tough CP situation instead of having a bunch of flat starter stages and few diverse CP options, which ends up amplifying their specific types of gameplay against a majority of the cast. Arty still beat Dojo's MK with his Falco under the MLG stagelist, so it's not entirely impossible.

What is the solution to this if you are not willing to put forth the effort to learn how to play on these other stages with your character? Simple, play a more flexible character. I will repeat this as many times as I have to because it's the only way to go about this in competitive Smash. Pampering and catering to those three characters who, unfortunately, don't perform as well under this more liberal stagelist is asinine. I'm surprised that some EC players, especially those who pride themselves on competitive views and morals (as was demonstrated in past arguments against liberal stagelist ideas), simply cannot comprehend this fact.

If you cannot bring yourself to use a more flexible character and choose to remain as Diddy throughout the entire course of an MLG tournament, then either suck it up or just don't participate in an MLG event. That's all I can really say on the matter, Wyatt.




Upsets are suddenly a bad thing now? Please elaborate. All that translated to was bitter Diddy main babble.

In case you haven't noticed (or watched the matches for yourself)...those players who caused said upsets DID WORK and earned those wins. Why even attempt to be slick about taking that credit away?




And yet it's still not legal, so what's your point?
Please elaborate on why the east coast stage list hardcore counterpicks specific characters, lol.

@ arty burty--you really don't see castle seige as advantageous to certain characters, or delfino? Metaknight kills so many characters on delfino!
 

Blacknight99923

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
2,315
Location
UCLA
I think the stage list bar some of the counter picks is good overall

I have issues with green greens however,
yes exploding blocks are player based

however walls and falling blocks are very ban able things. for example If the exploding rainbow glitch (which I somehow did by accident yesterday practicing) came up in a match and I had a lead I could camp behind the wall and my opponent could never realistically go through a wall and can't jump over it without taking 25% from the glitch. arguably this is just as bad as planking but with no edge grab rule and neither player can realistically approach each other. Honestly I don't know how the glitch is caused but Its not acceptable to play on a stage where this can happen.


also falling blocks are RANDOM they can spike you or explode on you before reaction time.

I believe this follows both of the BBRs criteria for banning

first I can't play brawl if the glitch is in effect
secondly the falling blocks are to random to be playing brawl with

unless I can get data proving me otherwise i see NO reason why green greens should be legal outside of the organizers preference.

Norfair actually isn't random for the most part its on a time table but I understand banning it to despite liking the stage myself
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
NNID
neohmarth216
Please elaborate on why the east coast stage list hardcore counterpicks specific characters, lol.
Please point out where I even said anything remotely close to what you're claiming before I say anything.

Metaknight kills so many characters on delfino!
Cry more. It's Metaknight, why are you acting so surprised at his capabilities on a vast number of stages? No universally reasonable rule will ever be able to remedy his sheer number of advantages, so the only choice at this point is to outperform him either with MK himself or with another character who can perform well on whatever stage is being played on.
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Please point out where I even said anything remotely close to what you're claiming before I say anything.



Cry more. It's Metaknight, why are you acting so surprised at his capabilities on a vast number of stages? No universally reasonable rule will ever be able to remedy his sheer number of advantages, so the only choice at this point is to outperform him either with MK himself or with another character who can perform well on whatever stage is being played on.
Alright, so here's what I don't ****ing get kb. Let's promote stages in which metaknight performs better on even though he's already the best in the game. Like, why do I have to ****ing start on lylat when the matchup is already hard enough as it is?

Also: "...more to do with the fact that Diddy/ICs/Falco are the ones who now have to deal with the possibility of being put in a tough CP situation instead of having a bunch of flat starter stages and few diverse CP options to abuse against their opponent."

Abuse? Abuse? When the matchup ratios remain as they should be on these stages due to their grounded nature? Shall we not counterpick characters in game 1, please? These characters are worse on other stages, not how they should be playing from the start. People need to get over the notion that diddy/ics/falco do not counterpick people on neutrals, they merely play how their character is designed to play and are worse on gimmicky stages.
 

Blacknight99923

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
2,315
Location
UCLA
Alright, so here's what I don't ****ing get kb. Let's promote stages in which metaknight performs better on even though he's already the best in the game. Like, why do I have to ****ing start on lylat when the matchup is already hard enough as it is?

Also: "...more to do with the fact that Diddy/ICs/Falco are the ones who now have to deal with the possibility of being put in a tough CP situation instead of having a bunch of flat starter stages and few diverse CP options to abuse against their opponent."

Abuse? Abuse? When the matchup ratios remain as they should be on these stages due to their grounded nature? Shall we not counterpick characters in game 1, please? These characters are worse on other stages, not how they should be playing from the start. People need to get over the notion that diddy/ics/falco do not counterpick people on neutrals, they merely play how their character is designed to play and are worse on gimmicky stages.
your argument is based on making some characters more viable but if this was the system to begin with it wouldn't have mattered, rulesets are not made to cater to the needs of any one character(s) or norfair would be a starting stage for ganon mains

Honsetly I would use a rulest that nerfs MK however thats not honestly what should be done from a purely objectionable standpoint
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
your argument is based on making some characters more viable but if this was the system to begin with it wouldn't have mattered, rulesets are not made to cater to the needs of any one character(s) or norfair would be a starting stage for ganon mains

Honsetly I would use a rulest that nerfs MK however thats not honestly what should be done from a purely objectionable standpoint
It's not even about characters at this point anymore, I was using ICs/diddy/falco as an example. It's about determining a legitimate outcome of the set to the better player.

But.... brawl isn't about that anymore I've learned. It's about ooooh ooh, "character diversity," and "making things more fair for all characters" when in reality it's terribly unfair. All this mw bull****. Mw is terrible because they discourage character between character matchups and crazy, fuzzy stages. That's why they're metagame is so bad and they have very few good players.
 

Arturito_Burrito

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
3,310
Location
el paso, New mexico
@ arty burty--you really don't see castle seige as advantageous to certain characters, or delfino? Metaknight kills so many characters on delfino!
yes i do adhd i've always seen these but they are always struck in those match ups. I've never seen ddd vs dk on castle siege or DDD vs anyone they can chain grab on castle siege and delfino the 1st match yet.

I haven't seen mk start on delfino either.

Snake won't be starting on halberd just like diddy/falco/ICs won't be starting on FD.

Do you really not see FD being as strong for diddy as castle and delfino? Why should your best counter pick be there instead of snakes?

edit: seriously adhd how can you be so blind? MK is designed to be played with sharking and in gimicky stages in the air like rainbow cruise. Why do you want your character to start off how he should be played and no one else?
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
NNID
neohmarth216
Alright, so here's what I don't ****ing get kb. Let's promote stages in which metaknight performs better on even though he's already the best in the game. Like, why do I have to ****ing start on lylat when the matchup is already hard enough as it is?
Lol...is that all? You're honestly that shocked that MK will most often have the advantage when it comes to choosing from a broader number of stages? Just because the number of stages now allows for a MK (or player of another character) to limit it all down to a stage other than Final Destination, Smashville, or Battlefield...it now should suddenly warrant the pampering of your character? All I can say to that notion is: tough ****. Use a character that would better perform under these unfortunate circumstances for your own. Is that still so hard to comprehend?

Also: "...more to do with the fact that Diddy/ICs/Falco are the ones who now have to deal with the possibility of being put in a tough CP situation instead of having a bunch of flat starter stages and few diverse CP options to abuse against their opponent."
Your point? Read above, just further elaboration on how these are just unfortunate circumstances for your character (who performs best on flat starters/stages in general) and how you should go about it competitively and strategically instead of throwing a fit and bashing everything associated with MLG, it's TVs, it's chosen rules, and AZ/OS to high heaven like I've been seeing.

Abuse? Abuse? When the matchup ratios remain as they should be on these stages due to their grounded nature? Shall we not counterpick characters in game 1, please? These characters are worse on other stages, not how they should be playing from the start. People need to get over the notion that diddy/ics/falco do not counterpick people on neutrals, they merely play how their character is designed to play and are worse on gimmicky stages.
You can't honestly expect me to believe this heap of nonsense.

"Matchup ratios remain as they should be on these stages due to their grounded nature"? That's just it...there is no "should be" regarding matchup ratios on any stage! Most individual matchup ratios will vary in some way, shape, or form due to a stage layout's influence on a match, and that includes the degree to which Diddy Kong, Ice Climbers, and Falco can perform on FD, Battlefield, Smashville, and other similar stage layouts as opposed to other characters.

You just basically told me right here that you believe this game has a "neutral" stage of any sort, and by what I just blatantly pointed out to you...that is FALSE.

There are "starters"; stages with the least amount of obstacle/knockback interference as opposed to other stages that have been deemed counterpicks.

What you are in this situation is a Diddy main who cannot accept that his character has limitations on a broader legal stagelist (gee...a rather realistic cause/effect scenario if you simply take the time to think about it). No character is as flexible as MK on any type of tournament stagelist, and I'm still curious as to why you can't comprehend that Diddy isn't either...


All this mw bull****. Mw is terrible because they discourage character between character matchups and crazy, fuzzy stages. That's why they're metagame is so bad and they have very few good players.
Totally unnecessary. That right there just shows how bitter you are. Man up and actually travel to the Midwest before you make those kinds of claims. It's not our fault you're taking the whiny route.
 

Conti

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Lol like I said not biased... I would go all snake at MLG if this would be the stagelist.... I like the diversity just not how the starters are set up... and norfair n ggs's... Pictochat and ps2 r decent...
That's why I'm trying to throw a 7stage list out there

Starters being...
BF
FD
SV
LC
YI
PS1
CS or Hb

Counterpicks...
CS or Hb
Delphino
Bstar
RC
Ps2
Pictochat


And there was A LOT of sarcasm in my post.... so if 5stages makes them in favor, 9 makes it regular? Idk not from what it seems... I feel that it places them on disadvantaged stages more often....
 

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
I just wanted to say that lag on TVs does matter. Especially if you take advantage of a really strong and important feature of Brawl: powershielding.
And you have less time to react.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
watch shugo v. tyrant 1 on kelinjapan's account
somehow, despite all this lag, they manage to powershield each other's attacks 4-5 times in a row
WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
4,063
Location
Australia | Melb
They'll just have to get over it and use more flexible characters. Simple as that.
Haha "get over it" by being forced to switch mains. By flexible you mean :metaknight: :)
Question-am I wrong to imagine that with a very liberal stage list (like this one) and without metaknight, the game might actually be really, really balanced?
Wrong? not at all, would be interesting to see.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom