Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[xDD-Master]

Temporary Ban:

We would see if it's more fun.

Maybe Marth would get the lead of the tier list (An Example).

Same discussions like now would maybe happen.


The time the ban ends:

The great Marth would -now- have a counter and would drop behind MK, but would mabye stay at 2nd (Not like now on 6, because his Metagame got further and the MUs vs. other Characters had been more centralized)

Maybe it would then make again fun to play against/with Meta Knight or to watch him (Not like now where he really got boring :/)

And because other Characters got better (Maybe M2K/DSF/Dojo or someone else found new things in that time) and they have a better metagame, whereas MKs didnt rise that much.

So there would be alot new situations and the MK vs. X MUs have to be discussed again and perhaps there will be a change and MK would get a counter.

THEN nobody would be whining about MK anymore.



So it would be good to try it. Just to see what happens.

It's sure that we would learn from that, if negative or positive doesnt matter.

I agree that the characters would have no experience then, when MK gets unbanned, but I think it wouldnt take that much until the MUs would be at least like they are now OR better (Thats what I hope from temp-ban)

 

[Kitamerby]

Really guys,

Meta Knight isn't

THAT broken.


Let's decide after Genesis.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Nope, never, he is not even close to banworthy, and when he goes marth would probably take his spot. O btw I play link, so my word maybe isnt worth anything.

 

[Shaya]

Raphael, you're arguing with me with a 'cultural shock' point. I'd say more people play brawl for more than just meta knight. If so many people are only playing brawl because meta knight is in it... and that it doesn't have 38 other nintendo characters...
So I'm arguing back with the cultural things.

People start playing top tiers in tournaments because they enjoy the competitive side of the game that comes from maining a high tiered character. In brawl, when it comes to that choice, Meta Knight is the perfect one. I'm not trying to argue meta should be banned because he's unbeatable or he's cheap (I'm not saying hes not these things either), I'm arguing a better competitive game could be available with Meta Knight removed. Those who main meta knight who want a better competitive game out of their nintendo characters should yearn to see the result of temporary banishment AS WELL. The players leaving because meta is banned are the ones who probably don't think of brawl as competitive in the first place.... Or think that brawl won't be competitive without Meta... Look at my first paragraph in this post... I find that train of thought something we can afford to say good riddance to.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Really guys,

Meta Knight isn't

THAT broken.


Let's decide after Genesis.

Despite being funny, that didn't provide anything helpful.

 

[spudzalot]

I'm saying that if we do find a character even if its DK or sheik the point was that if we find a way to beat MK the will just get good at MK and the counter to the one character who can beat him

So then everyone would be maining Metaknight and said character? I would rather have a large range of characters.

 

[Praxis]

Dedede already destroys any mid tier, some high, and lower character that he can chaingrab, like ike, ganon, bowser, samus, peach, Ivysaur, yoshi, charizard, Sonic, ness, lucas,mario, Link, LUCARIO, DK, Wolf (list goes on) much worse than MK. Chaingrab means u cant do ANYTHING, and its constant free damage since his never ends and he has insane grab range.

Dedede destroys Peach?

Heh. Hehehe.

That's a good one.

--Though people will lose practice with MKs they will not just simply forget the matchup.
--Sword swings both ways: MK mains will also lose practice with top competition.
--Other characters' metagames will further develop as skilled MK mains will work on other characters for tournaments.

Then, three months later, the MKs are all back to their prior level and this happens all over again.

 

[Woozle]

I think it's funny that temporary bans suggest that players who play Metaknight are just outright better than those that don't.

I'm sure the reason that metaknight is coming in at the top so often is merely becuase only metaknight mains are much more developed.

That's spitting in the faces of anyone who mains any other character; "Oh, you just don't know enough. Let the metaknight mains play your character for a while. They'll make it SO MUCH BETTER."

:/

 

[Blad01]

Do you guys really need skilled MK players to advance others characters' metagames ?

 

[Plum]

Raphael, you're arguing with me with a 'cultural shock' point. I'd say more people play brawl for more than just meta knight. If so many people are only playing brawl because meta knight is in it... and that it doesn't have 38 other nintendo characters...
So I'm arguing back with the cultural things.

People start playing top tiers in tournaments because they enjoy the competitive side of the game that comes from maining a high tiered character. In brawl, when it comes to that choice, Meta Knight is the perfect one. I'm not trying to argue meta should be banned because he's unbeatable or he's cheap (I'm not saying hes not these things either), I'm arguing a better competitive game could be available with Meta Knight removed. Those who main meta knight who want a better competitive game out of their nintendo characters should yearn to see the result of temporary banishment AS WELL. The players leaving because meta is banned are the ones who probably don't think of brawl as competitive in the first place.... Or think that brawl won't be competitive without Meta... Look at my first paragraph in this post... I find that train of thought something we can afford to say good riddance to.

Look at the other top tier characters. Other top tier characters individually hard counter more other characters than MK. Removing MK could end up hurting the competitive scene when the other top tiers are aloud to flourish more; with more DDD's, G&W's, Snake's, and Falco's at tournaments and able to achieve success easier it is only going to become harder for the lower and mid tiers. It's going to be the same situation really as far as tournament results go. The same exact characters will be winning minus MK, and his results will be sprinkled to which ever characters MK mains switch to.

And MK isn't always the best choice... saying that is spitting at the counterpick system. MK is a safe choice, and nothing else. If I'm up against a Snake, why would MK EVER be the best choice? Why do I want an even matchup when I can choose DDD? If I'm up against Falco, why would I ever want to choose MK? I could go Ice Climbers. Why would I choose MK against G&W when I can choose Marth or Snake?

Now I understand that MK puts a huge strain of imbalance in the counterpick system, but you can't say that you are hurting yourself not playing MK. Simply because MK consists of mostly even matchups (around 5:5) and small advantage matchups (around 6:4). How many characters can genuinely say that MK is their absolute hands down worst matchup? Now how many of those characters have another horrid matchup to worry about?

In theory a player could increase their chances of winning even more than playing MK by playing more than one character to give themselves more hard counters and favorable matchups then they could achieve by just playing MK. MK is more of a safety net when considering every single matchup in the game. You know you aren't going to be walking into a bad matchup, but you also know that there are characters which are better choices against whatever character you may be fighting.

 

[bigman40]

Dedede already destroys any mid tier, some high, and lower character that he can chaingrab, like ike, ganon, bowser, samus, peach, Ivysaur, yoshi, charizard, Sonic, ness, lucas,mario, Link, LUCARIO, DK, Wolf (list goes on) much worse than MK. Chaingrab means u cant do ANYTHING, and its constant free damage since his never ends and he has insane grab range.

Then he gimps these characters just as hardcore as Metaknight thanks to his aerials like his high priority back air and multiple jumps.

Umm.....What? D3 isn't as a problem to us as compared to a few others. Learn to know stuff before you post something wrong.

 

[Santi]

*casts vote*

He can be beaten. Simple as that.
There are characters who are equipped to put up a good fight and come up with the win.
Why ban a character that can be beaten and is getting beat by other characters.

 

[spudzalot]

Look at the other top tier characters. Other top tier characters individually hard counter more other characters than MK. Removing MK could end up hurting the competitive scene when the other top tiers are aloud to flourish more; with more DDD's, G&W's, Snake's, and Falco's at tournaments and able to achieve success easier it is only going to become harder for the lower and mid tiers. It's going to be the same situation really as far as tournament results go. The same exact characters will be winning minus MK, and his results will be sprinkled to which ever characters MK mains switch to.

And MK isn't always the best choice... saying that is spitting at the counterpick system. MK is a safe choice, and nothing else. If I'm up against a Snake, why would MK EVER be the best choice? Why do I want an even matchup when I can choose DDD? If I'm up against Falco, why would I ever want to choose MK? I could go Ice Climbers. Why would I choose MK against G&W when I can choose Marth or Snake?

Now I understand that MK puts a huge strain of imbalance in the counterpick system, but you can't say that you are hurting yourself not playing MK. Simply because MK consists of mostly even matchups (around 5:5) and small advantage matchups (around 6:4). How many characters can genuinely say that MK is their absolute hands down worst matchup? Now how many of those characters have another horrid matchup to worry about?

In theory a player could increase their chances of winning even more than playing MK by playing more than one character to give themselves more hard counters and favorable matchups then they could achieve by just playing MK. MK is more of a safety net when considering every single matchup in the game. You know you aren't going to be walking into a bad matchup, but you also know that there are characters which are better choices against whatever character you may be fighting.

I would rather have tons of DDD's, G&W's, Snake's, and Falco's anyday. All of those characters have counters somewhere. Metaknight does not. That is the problem. And a game is a lot more fun when there are diverse characters not all Metaknights sweeping tourneys.

Also MK vs Snake is not an even matchup. Snake gets gimped so easily because his recovery puts him in a vulnerable position. Also MK can shuttle loop the cypher send Snake flying and give MK another opportunity to Shuttle Loop him again. Its not even.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why do people say we should wait until Genesis? It'll probably take longer than that for other characters to catch up considering at what level M2K pushed MK.

 

[Xyro77]

Nope, never, he is not even close to banworthy, and when he goes marth would probably take his spot. O btw I play link, so my word maybe isnt worth anything.

even though i disagree with you 100%. your word/vote is worth something.

 

[Brinzy]

You're dreaming. How many people do you think already quit or converted to Brawl+ because of Metaknight? How many do you think are about to? What non-MK would quit from MK being banned. Find me one example other than yourself.

I don't know how many. If I knew something like that, I would've already given my holy word as to whether or not MK should be banned.

I am not quitting Brawl if MK gets banned. I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

I did make a poor argument about the non-MK thing, not because I can't prove it (since I can't think of any off of the top of my head), but because they would probably have a multitude of reasons for quitting. "MK is banned? Wow, what a bunch of scrubs. I'm moving on to another game." Nevertheless, I cede this point.

However, I am pretty sure that players would quit Brawl if MK got banned.

Raphael, you're arguing with me with a 'cultural shock' point. I'd say more people play brawl for more than just meta knight. If so many people are only playing brawl because meta knight is in it... and that it doesn't have 38 other nintendo characters...
So I'm arguing back with the cultural things.

People start playing top tiers in tournaments because they enjoy the competitive side of the game that comes from maining a high tiered character. In brawl, when it comes to that choice, Meta Knight is the perfect one. I'm not trying to argue meta should be banned because he's unbeatable or he's cheap (I'm not saying hes not these things either), I'm arguing a better competitive game could be available with Meta Knight removed. Those who main meta knight who want a better competitive game out of their nintendo characters should yearn to see the result of temporary banishment AS WELL. The players leaving because meta is banned are the ones who probably don't think of brawl as competitive in the first place.... Or think that brawl won't be competitive without Meta... Look at my first paragraph in this post... I find that train of thought something we can afford to say good riddance to.

I never said (the majority of) people were playing Brawl for MK. A point I was making was that people who are already rather tired of the community have various reasons for not liking this community, one of them being this issue. Anyway, if you're talking about the same thing he was talking about, I ceded that point.

If this is how you feel, fair enough. I can't really respond without a "Well this is how I feel" post, which isn't really gonna say anything.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

After reading this thread, I tend to agree that the 100 pages of bickering are beyond pointless. The cynical side of me believes that the SBR looks at a thread like this and dismisses 100 pages of opinions as mostly scrubs wanting Ike to work at tournaments.

I really hope that isn't the case, because I don't think that's the case presented here at all.

Right now, the game is terribly balanced. Removing Meta Knight makes the game as balanced as it could be with nearly 40 characters to choose from. 12-15 viable tourney characters that all stand a very good chance at winning is preferable to one taking the top 10 spots every time, and that's what we're closing in on.

 

[xDD-Master]

2 Days, 100 Pages, 900 Votes

Yes - 460 - 51.11%
No - 330 - 36.67%
Not Sure - 110 - 12.22%

Just to save this.

 

[HiddenBowser]

The cynical side of me believes that the SBR looks at a thread like this and dismisses 100 pages of opinions as mostly scrubs wanting Ike to work at tournaments.

I really hope that isn't the case, because I don't think that's the case presented here at all.

Seeing how a lot of SBR members are debating in here and are taking both sides, I don't think that's the case.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Dedede already destroys any mid tier, some high, and lower character that he can chaingrab, like ike, ganon, bowser, samus, peach, Ivysaur, yoshi, charizard, Sonic, ness, lucas,mario, Link, LUCARIO, DK, Wolf (list goes on) much worse than MK. Chaingrab means u cant do ANYTHING, and its constant free damage since his never ends and he has insane grab range.

*sigh* I give up.
Unless its 70:30 I cannot see it as being destroyed.

 

[ZHMT]

Kay, we reached 100 pages now....

You think something can be DONE about this situation instead of blabbing on about it, anything further will most likely be spam or complaining about one side or another. Both sides have a valid argument but its not up to pretty much anyone that posted in this thread what will happen to the Metaghey.

The poll dont mean anything because a large portion of the people that voted YES ban him, are still playing free for all with items. A lot of the people that voted Keep MK, are MK mains that want easier wins. ( I mean come on, we KNOW hes easier then other characters)

Im waiting for people that actually have power to do anything get involved and speak up.

 

[Nic64]

After reading this thread, I tend to agree that the 100 pages of bickering are beyond pointless. The cynical side of me believes that the SBR looks at a thread like this and dismisses 100 pages of opinions as mostly scrubs wanting Ike to work at tournaments.

I really hope that isn't the case, because I don't think that's the case presented here at all.

Right now, the game is terribly balanced. Removing Meta Knight makes the game as balanced as it could be with nearly 40 characters to choose from. 12-15 viable tourney characters that all stand a very good chance at winning is preferable to one taking the top 10 spots every time, and that's what we're closing in on.

the game is terribly balanced and will continue to be so even with MK out of the picture. there already *are* 12-15 viable characters and the game will still revolve around the top 2-5 or so of those.

and banning MK doesn't make the game as balanced as it could be, if you wanted to have the largest number of potentially viable characters, you could ban another 4-8 characters and have a much wider field of competition, but that would be silly and no one would even suggest that

...

I'm not totally against or for a ban, I have a lot of conflicting opinions, I'm almost in the "just ban him to get it over with to stop the whining" camp at this point though, because it seems like this debate is never going away and I think there needs to be some kind of resolution regarding it one way or the other.

 

[Asdioh]

Brawl+

This seems like the best solution to make Brawl a more fun and competitive game to me, it's just unfortunate that so many people dismiss the concept before giving it a chance.

Im waiting for people that actually have power to do anything get involved and speak up.

*Sakurai comes in*

 

[complexity1234]

*sigh* I give up.
Unless its 70:30 I cannot see it as being destroyed.

um yea all those characters i mentioned (plus more) have it insanely hard against dedede.
peach probably the least of those but its still easy for dedede.
Yea you can float over him sometimes, but your still going to get shield grabbed alot and then back aired off the stage like crazy. She gets wrecked by a good d3. If you dont agree then you will find out the hard way when you play a good one.

The poll dont mean anything because a large portion of the people that voted YES ban him, are still playing free for all with items.

Thats the main problem really.

A lot of the people that voted Keep MK, are MK mains that want easier wins. ( I mean come on, we KNOW hes easier then other characters)

No, but nice try.
it also includes skilled players who know how to fight metaknight and know that hes beatable.
Just because hes easy to play has absolutely nothing to do with banning a character.
Neither does popularity (lots of metaknights entering a tournament)

 

[momochuu]

I think the quality of the arguments in the "Should Metaknight be banned?" threads get worse every time.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The match up between Peach and DDD is 50-50.

That is all *leaves*

 

[BOB SAGET]

just stop arguing. your not DOING A GOOD JOB OF CONVINCING PEOPLE mk SHOULD BE BANNED.

 

[Zankoku]

This seems like the best solution to make Brawl a more fun and competitive game to me, it's just unfortunate that so many people dismiss the concept before giving it a chance.

lolllllllll, you must be joking

At least Brawl isn't braindead reaction

Brawl+ is like Lightning Melee with more characters and none of the stuff that actually made Melee good.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I think the quality of the arguments in the "Should Metaknight be banned?" threads get worse every time.

I think it's because most people at this point are fully aware that nothing is going to change regarding this issue so they no longer feel obligated to make sturdy arguements. As this is obvious to a large percentage of us, this is a problem since this is the third time this has been brought up in the past 6 months but, for some reason, it usually just widdles down to nothing because a lot of the higher ups believe the notion of doing so is ridicolous because the idea of banning Metaknight goes against the competitive standard of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Really, this issue needs to stop coming up or at least have longer periods between when these polls come out but, then again, the issue always seems to come up that people should "wait until *insert big tournament here* happens before making a decision" but that usually just leads to people arguing that the results don't mean jack, you can't base something on the results of one tournament, blah, blah, etc, etc. It's a vicious cycle more than anything else.

 

[ANTi_]

completely untrue about anti... he barely uses mk anymore... he is another example of why snake goes even with mk. he has been beating allll the mks in the area with snake lately... with nothing but grenade camping and smart playing.

smart playing and O.C.A.S

 

[Jim Morrison]

I think the quality of the arguments in the "Should Metaknight be banned?" threads get worse every time.

I think your face does too.

 

[Eddie G]

lolllllllll, you must be joking

At least Brawl isn't braindead reaction

Brawl+ is like Lightning Melee with more characters and none of the stuff that actually made Melee good.

And Brawl is like poking your opponent with a stick until you finally have a chance to impale your opposition with said stick. Your point?

 

[|RK|]

Reposting my argument here...

Thing is it would do the community as a whole a lot of good. MK mains can just pick whatever other character they wantwhen hes banned. If they truly are good then they will have no problem.

I saw this and became annoyed. Did you read M2K's Myspace blog? The best (known) player in the world calls you crybabies. He notes that you want to ban a character that he (and others) have put HOURS of practice into. HOURS. MK mains practice too, you know. No they won't have a problem in the switch, but the fact that the character they put so much work into, they can't play as him anymore?

I mained Kirby back in Melee. I was always crushed by my brother's Link. I took up Mario. Mario had all of what Kirby did. and more. Meta-Knight simply embodies the abilities of most of the game's characters. The fact that someone does better with Meta-Knight is no surprise. MK has their character's tools, and the ability to use them better. The phras Xien used yesterday to describe Arceus is the same for MK "Jack of all Trades, Master of None." As he is the Jack of all trades, the masters of these tools obviously have things better than him. MK just has more tools, and the player can not only keep their fighting style, but adopt new tactics. That's it. Every character has something better than MK. Expand on his fighting style, and winning isn't that far of a goal. Expand on your character's fighting style, and have the glory of mastery.

To weaken MK mains by forcing them to fit in a certain character's playstyle is wrong. MK has more freedom than other characters, so what? Boss is the best example for a master, because he uses two low tiers and can even beat Meta-Knights. Mario and Luigi, as well as every other character in the game (with the possible exception of Marth) has at least one thing over MK that they can master. What's yours?

 

[momochuu]

I think your face does too.

Perfect example.

 

[JayBee]

To say that there are NO reasons to ban him is not true in any sense. Im not going to state all the reasons he is broken, because honestly, we all know what they are. But here are my reasons for wanting him banned.

1: people are slowly realizing that in order to win in tourneys, you have to pick meta. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but that only doesn't apply to the best of the best, which most likely you and a large portion of tourney goers are not. Godismyrock, for example, who has done reasonably well whenever he goes to tourneys IMO, has told me he's going to meta for the same reason. And outside of a few occurances overall, its true. and he's a smart player. a smart player with meta is very hard to beat. those are the ones skewing the results, not the noobs. I feel like i should not have to/ be able to pick a character im not particually good at and have a chance at winning the set, y'know? but if you know mindgames, and are smart, hell, you've already can play meta. he's that easy.

2: I feel that the weakness of metaknight (which in reality is only one) his light weight, is not only not bad enough to take advantage on a match by match basis, but his ability to throw out safe, quick, nearly lagless moves and his recovery nearly negate this weakness. can you spike him? i'd like to see you try. it is very hard to even get meta in the situation.

3: Dair is godly IMO. if he had ANY matchups he didn't know how to take care of, this move almost single handedly controls the match in that its very fast, little lag, he has several jumps to do it with, and afterwards he can nado you or airdodge away.

The reason meta is still top is not only because of M2K. More people, intellectual, legitimate smashers with their repective characters, are making the switch to meta. I dont' think he'll be banned, but only because too many people enjoy playing him too much. there people that can deal with him, but the results don't lie. they still lose more to metas often than not.
And i dont see any advancement in the game, big or small, that will ever change that. if he is banned, that would suck for the people who put lots of time to play him and actually like the character, and would probably cause some riot(s), but would those good players going to other characters enhance the game better? i think so.

If Street Fighter turbo players could get over not being able to play akuma, im sure smash can do it too. we're not exempt. ( i realize that akuma is way more broken than MK, but it still illustrates my point)

 

[da K.I.D.]

I feel that everyone is under the assumption that the SBR is never going to ban MK, and that its a waste to even talk about it.

I just feel that if that were true, a mod thats in the SBR wouldnt have been teh one to make this thread. So if SP or AZ or whoever made this thread (too lazy to go check) felt it necessary to make the thread, at least part of the SBR feels that it warrents some serious public discussion.

Ive said it once and Ill say it again, please dont assume the postions of the SBR or its members unless you are actually back there to see what is going on. Making random assumptions only makes people look stupid

 

[GAUVN]

And so it shall be. We shall ban metaknight because he is completely overpowered. We will answer the people's call. We shall also ban planking as there are characters that cannot fight against that. Now we shall also ban camping because pikachu's thundershock is too good and no one can seem to get by it. Next we can ban Snake because his land mines and C-4 are nearly invisible to the player on stages at night, therefore it gives snake an unfair advantage. So we can then go ahead and ban lucario and Pit because their roll dodgy and turtling tendencies also create an unfair advantage to the opponent. Next we'll ban bowserciding, kirbyciding, ganonciding, dededeciding, wariociding, and all other cides because its just not right. Lets go ahead and ban the ice climbers because of their infinites as well. Lets also ban Delfino's plaza because if you land in the water, you're likely to get spiked to death and there's also walk off sections that Dedede can infinite you off of. Yohsi's island should be banned too because the ghost platform can randomly save characters, especially peach who can use her parasol to buy time for the next rising. That stage also has a platform in the center which is great for campy characters to hide under. Lets also ban Smashville because there is not enough platforms. Lets then ban Final D because the stage's ledges make it too easy to get caught under, resulting in a gimp, which is just not fair. We should also ban Battlefield, because there are so many platforms that olimar can hide under and use his OP smashes. We can ban chaingrabbing, too, just because racking up an instant 50% is unfair.

As a result, the only stage that can ever be played on is a create-a-stage stage, designed with a flatground, no final d like ledges, and no way to fly under the stage, with one platform centered in the middle, high above the stage preventing camping, but not so high that MK's upthrow would kill, but wait, he is banned. And the only chracter allowed is Mario, because he is an equal and fairly balanced character that is not hard or easy to learn and has decent moves.

If the sarcasm wasn't blatant enough, I went ahead and expanded on EVERYTHING else I hear people complaining about when it comes to Brawl. So back to the topic of whether or not MK should be banned...

Should not. I've seen him get owned. I've seen good players go at it with him and beat him. I've seen DK's Samuses, pikachu's, olimar's, snakes, lucario's, and a few other characters tear him up. IMO, your likelyhood of beating metaknight is based on two things %25 character selection, %75 player skill. While tiers are good to show you where characters lay compared to others, it should in no way be your bible to how you play. There are some beasty Captain Falcon's, Ikes and links out there. If I remember right, lucario was a mid tier chracter, and only now because so many people have started picking him up (and if you picked him up so you can run the clock out, shame on you) he is moving up to high tier.

So in short, pick the character you like, and get good with him. You have more then just character stats at your disposal. You have mindgames, turtling, camping, planking, and a lot more depending on who your character is. Samus is actually a good character to pick these days because not many people know a counterpick stage for her, nor do they recognize her playstyle well enough to fight her, similar to Olimar. If you have never faced an olimar, prepare to get destroyed.

And just for the record: I main Lucario, and I'm an agressive lucario at that. I chase after MK's who try to plank, and I spike them off the stage instead. He's beatable. Learn how he works, and more importantly, learn how your OPPONENT plays him so you can work around his strategies. That is all.

Don't let my post count fool you =D

 

[da K.I.D.]

Brawl+ is like Lightning Melee with more characters and none of the stuff that actually made Melee good.

this is too good, not only am I stealing this, but I might sig it as well

EDIT: ill make a small reply to gauvn

you have to realise the difference between BROKEN and CHEAP.

Broken is things that are way too over powered to be allowed in a tournament.

Cheap is just things like chaingrabs that annoy you that you have to work around.

you want to ban broken things like Metaknight and wario ware. and you have to get better so as to avoid cheap things, like IC grabs and projectile spamming.

also, luigi is not low tier and lucario is not mid tier.

Also, I dont know what game you are playing where lucario spikes a planking MK, but its not Brawl seeing as lucario has no spikes.

 

[Zankoku]

And Brawl is like poking your opponent with a stick until you finally have a chance to impale your opposition with said stick. Your point?

The "fun" you get from Brawl+ is so shallow that I can't see anyone getting competitive value out of it for a very long amount of time.

Brawl may be not fun to you, but Brawl+ is not a proper fix in competition. You should play a real fighter. There's plenty out there.

 

[|RK|]

While Pit can't turtle (G&W), I get what you're saying. Welcome to the coolest board ever GAUVN. (I obviously don't mean Smashboards, just the Lucario boards.)