Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[|RK|]

Also, why is Bob Saget still posting, wasn't he banned.

Apparently so. Twice, in fact.

 

[popsofctown]

meta knight along with many others in ssbb shouldnt have even been included in the roster
such useless characters like king dedede, ice climbers, sonic, ness, game and watch, rob, and def. meta knight.
meta knight requires no skill to use at all. he is amazingly fast and surprisingly strong for his speed. meta knight is def. a failed character when it comes to skill. all you have to do is spam "B" or "b over" the twister is constant move you can do and catch all players on the stage off gaurd. the b over move is seriously overpowered and has too good of launch behind it. this make meta knight a terrible character. kirby's whole line up existing in ssbb makes no **** sense. why boot great characters such as "roy" for terrible characters like the ones that were named before.

Is there anwyay to require a minimum post count or something for this thread? Or minimum smash literacy for the forum in general?

 

[Asdioh]

Ugh, way too many quotes.

lolllllllll, you must be joking

At least Brawl isn't braindead reaction

Brawl+ is like Lightning Melee with more characters and none of the stuff that actually made Melee good.

And Brawl is like poking your opponent with a stick until you finally have a chance to impale your opposition with said stick. Your point?

This. Also keep in mind that "Brawl+" is constantly changing. You can edit ANYTHING about it, and those that are doing the programming are listening to the input of the community.

I think your face does too.

I wouldn't preach about what is "shallow" or what is "real", as that is all subjective to the individual player. Ah well, I'd rather not continue with this.

This. I haven't gotten to play much Brawl+, but to me it looks like combos are too easy as it currently is. I won't put much more judgment into it until I play it a significant amount.

MvC2 is also bad. I don't understand how it had a community for so long.

Again, an opinion.

I won't pretend I know anything about MvC2, Street Fighter, or most other "traditional" fighting games. I don't. But I can say that watching them, all of the Smash games look more fun to me in comparison. I guess it depends on the person.

If this happens, MK will remain the best character in the game, but will probably be of Melee Marth status rather than being utterly broken.

Perhaps, but I think one of the arguments (which I haven't seen much of here) is that MEEEL and BARLW are two different games. Like, if you got a good hit on a top tier like Marth in Melee, and you were smart and had 1337 techskillz, you could finish him, or edgeguard. You can't combo MK, you can't edgeguard MK. :/



With that said...I'm also thinking of voting "no." My reason? Well, among other things...I haven't lost a single match in a tournament to a MK since the start of 2009 XD

Spoiler

I've only played like 3 MKs, and they were pool matches, and they were quite possibly simply not as good as me, but still...

Also, I'd just like to throw the name "Kirby" out here since I haven't seen him mentioned AT ALL in this thread. Everyone's talking about Falco, D3, G&W, Snake, etc. but no Kirby.

Kirby has a decent matchup against Meta Knight. It's just that nobody pays attention to Kirby because they're *****es.

 

[|RK|]

Is there anwyay to require a minimum post count or something for this thread? Or minimum smash literacy for the forum in general?

I wish. Azua should make an entrance exam for new members. They have to type 100 words about something. Maybe about one of the topics we're discussing. A post like that = F++++++++ (-----------------------------------) :D

 

[JayBee]

i like how people say they will quit brawl if Mk is banned when, if he was, either they will not, or if they do no one will care and the game will continue on as normal. there will not be some massive "I quit brawl" block party going on if meta is banned. that's so unrealistic.

 

[Falconv1.0]

You should go to Brawl+ if MK is banned. That's what I'll do. Or just split up and make an entirely new board and have REAL tournaments hosted. Oh, and ban people for being noobish or suggesting we ban MK sounds fun to me!

OOOOOORRR I could go play a real game like Melee or something else like BlazBlue.

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

lol do i smell civil war?

 

[JayBee]

nah, that's your two minute Down B, SKoJ...
you should say excuse me next time...

 

[CR4SH]

Lol saget is the new brinboy.

Seems to me that santi made his decision on a completely different idea than should really being discussed. While that's reasonable, I really don't agree with it. Nobody with a brain is saying mk is unbeatable. If you're enough better, you can beat any character with any other character. However MK is just too easy an option to keep this an interesting competitive game. Main MK or you're gimping yourself, PERIOD. That's dumb.

As for why mk is so good? I'm pretty sure I know why. Sakurai has a stick up his butt about miyamoto kicking him off the project. On his last one he put the tier list exactly how he wanted it. His favorite character? broken. His best friend's favorite character? broken. All the flagship nintendo characters? (link, mario, samus) garbage. There's no way thats an accident.

 

[Sieguest]

I said meta knight shouldn't be banned, even though it seems metaknight is uber cheap, he's not really that much of a nuisance, some good strategizing is all it takes I think to beat any character.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Lol saget is the new brinboy.

Oh I can smell the upcoming *** kicking from a mile away.

 

[brinboy789]

Lol saget is the new brinboy.

Seems to me that santi made his decision on a completely different idea than should really being discussed. While that's reasonable, I really don't agree with it. Nobody with a brain is saying mk is unbeatable. If you're enough better, you can beat any character with any other character. However MK is just too easy an option to keep this an interesting competitive game. Main MK or you're gimping yourself, PERIOD. That's dumb.

As for why mk is so good? I'm pretty sure I know why. Sakurai has a stick up his butt about miyamoto kicking him off the project. On his last one he put the tier list exactly how he wanted it. His favorite character? broken. His best friend's favorite character? broken. All the flagship nintendo characters? (link, mario, samus) garbage. There's no way thats an accident.

are you serious? your ****ing holding a prejudice over me this entire time? like **** off and mature a bit please.

and if you really think that sakurai broke MK on purpose? really? REALLY? you think sakurai has control over the whole brawl project? yea sakurai says this and it happens? please.

 

[Zankoku]

This. Also keep in mind that "Brawl+" is constantly changing. You can edit ANYTHING about it, and those that are doing the programming are listening to the input of the community.

Somewhat. The extent of the standalone changes are still disappointing. While fun might be subjective, depth is something objectively determined.

Again, an opinion.

I won't pretend I know anything about MvC2, Street Fighter, or most other "traditional" fighting games. I don't. But I can say that watching them, all of the Smash games look more fun to me in comparison. I guess it depends on the person.

No, it really is a bad game. It's just bad for the complete opposite reason from Brawl. Of which Brawl isn't "bad," since it's still legitimately playable. Just not as fun for many people. However, it is clear that Brawl has a stronger emphasis on defense than most fighter games. MvC2 is just completely broken in favor of offense.

I guess people find that more fun, though.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Why the heck did Brawl+ come up anyway. Weren't we talking about MK?

From a neutral standpoint, even though there are more votes for yes, I see more votes for yes and quite a lot of people actually posting arguing that he should be banned or temp banned, although the most convincing arguments come from the anti-ban side. Of course, I'm also anti-ban, so that's probably biased...but I bet others agree.

I don't see how temp bans will change anything at all. Like Raphael said a few pages back, all a temp ban does is force people to change mains or possibly quit the game, while for 6 months people realize what it's like without MK. Then when MK is allowed again, he'll make his way back to the top (people won't really know the match-up after 6 months), and people will complain, and a huge number of people will complain more because they realize what smash without MK is like. These complaints will most probably just end up meaning that MK gets permanently banned.

You can't ban then unban something and expect everything to stay the same. I see reasoning towards the pro-ban side, but temp-ban just seems like a set course for failure. Putting a temp ban on to, "See what the metagame does without MK for half a year," is really just, "See what the metagame does without MK for half a year, have MK back for another month, have an ungodly amount of the community hate him again, and have him banned permanently."

 

[CR4SH]

Lol.

10funny.

 

[Exceladon City]

Somewhat. The extent of the standalone changes are still disappointing. While fun might be subjective, depth is something objectively determined.


No, it really is a bad game. It's just bad for the complete opposite reason from Brawl. Of which Brawl isn't "bad," since it's still legitimately playable. Just not as fun for many people. However, it is clear that Brawl has a stronger emphasis on defense than most fighter games. MvC2 is just completely broken in favor of offense.

I guess people find that more fun, though.

I think it's just annoying how all I see in the competitive scene is Sentinel, Magneto, Storm, Cable and Psylocke. Basically, whoever can out attack who wins pretty much. If thats the point you're making, then I agree.

 

[Sieguest]

No, it really is a bad game. It's just bad for the complete opposite reason from Brawl. Of which Brawl isn't "bad," since it's still legitimately playable. Just not as fun for many people. However, it is clear that Brawl has a stronger emphasis on defense than most fighter games. MvC2 is just completely broken in favor of offense.

I guess people find that more fun, though.[/QUOTE]

That is an opinion! The word "bad" is an opinion word because I can argue it and say MvC2 is an mega-awesome game (I really don't think that way though) english lesson of the day

@Avarice Panda: amen, amen and amen

edit:Ah crap! I messed up the quote! I was quoting Ankoku (hope I spelled that right)

 

[bigman40]

Face it people. Sakurai intended for his characters to be good lol

 

[Darxmarth23]

Not to mention already disproven.

Name this character:

-has more tournament wins than any other character
-most of the top players in the country main him
-did well on all the starter stages
-had a variety of playstyles very early on and continues to grow






.....Snake.

In the first few months of the game.

Once the metagame focused around BEATING Snake, it changed a lot and we saw MK's dominance come up. Snake started being beaten by ROB, D3, and Metaknight primarily, while other characters started to go even.

Then MK came to the top, and the metagame focused around beating him.

Nothing happened, he just stayed on top and increased the gap.

you took the words straight out of my mouth. Mk is bending metagames by his dominance.

Why the heck did Brawl+ come up anyway. Weren't we talking about MK?

From a neutral standpoint, even though there are more votes for yes, I see more votes for yes and quite a lot of people actually posting arguing that he should be banned or temp banned, although the most convincing arguments come from the anti-ban side. Of course, I'm also anti-ban, so that's probably biased...but I bet others agree.

I don't see how temp bans will change anything at all. Like Raphael said a few pages back, all a temp ban does is force people to change mains or possibly quit the game, while for 6 months people realize what it's like without MK. Then when MK is allowed again, he'll make his way back to the top (people won't really know the match-up after 6 months), and people will complain, and a huge number of people will complain more because they realize what smash without MK is like. These complaints will most probably just end up meaning that MK gets permanently banned.

You can't ban then unban something and expect everything to stay the same. I see reasoning towards the pro-ban side, but temp-ban just seems like a set course for failure. Putting a temp ban on to, "See what the metagame does without MK for half a year," is really just, "See what the metagame does without MK for half a year, have MK back for another month, have an ungodly amount of the community hate him again, and have him banned permanently."

A temp ban will change things. A lot. We will have straight matagames, and brawl will be at a point of maximum develpoment.

But when Mk comes back, he will change everything again.

 

[MBlaze]

I will almost definitely quit if MK is banned.

That's the way to deal with your problems. God forbid you had to use another character in the game.

 

[Falconv1.0]

That's the way to deal with your problems. God forbid you had to use another character in the game.

I dont play MK.



You're really ignorant. Try to be less so next time you try to be funny with me.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

If a decision HAD to be reached today, then MK should be banned. As it stands, he is broken and far too dominant, and that most likely won't change. Removing him from Brawl would make it so that rather than a top 8 full of one character at almost every tournament, we can have a variety of characters winning at high level play including Snake, D3, GW, Diddy, Falco, Marth, ROB, etc.

Luckily for us, a decision can wait. I understand that people want him out of the way asap so that they can have the best experience in tourneys as early as possible, but there is far more to gain than there is to lose in waiting. If we wait about 2 more seasons, it's possible that a counter will develop, or people will simply find it easier to deal with him and his rankings will fall. If this happens, MK will remain the best character in the game, but will probably be of Melee Marth status rather than being utterly broken. Again, after six or so months, NOTHING will probably change, and then it will be clear that removing this character is the right way to go, and we won't be just chopping off a perfectly legit character. But if we do wait, we can be sure. Better safe than sorry.

Needless to say, my vote was no.

I think...what it will ultimately boil down too is play styles.

People have trouble with adapting to, and dealing with MK on their mains for one reason or another. But i just cant help but think thats theres just some type of play style that can beat a solid MK.

I also voted no since I think there needs to be more time for people to pull together and re discover their characters abilities. As of right now we're all caught in a type of vicious Meta Knight cycle. His Meta game is pretty far out there while a majority of the cast are no where near as developed. If we cold turkey ban him, then we will never find a counter anything against him.

 

[Darxmarth23]

That's the way to deal with your problems. God forbid you had to use another character in the game.

Lol.

Sbr got no guts to ban Mk.

Bottom line, this topic should not even be discussed because Whobo didn't have all of the best players. It was missing quite a lot.

We should discuss this when Apex and Genisis results come. Then we will have not one but two world tourneys to discuss this issue with.

 

[|RK|]

OOOOOORRR I could go play a real game like Melee or something else like BlazBlue.

I'd do that if Melee had Brawl graphics and Lucario. Someone really should attempt that. Graft Melee onto Brawl, making it a better looking Wi-Fi Melee.

 

[Sosuke]

This thread
has so many posts that are just


ugh

 

[Praxis]

Somewhat. The extent of the standalone changes are still disappointing. While fun might be subjective, depth is something objectively determined.


No, it really is a bad game. It's just bad for the complete opposite reason from Brawl. Of which Brawl isn't "bad," since it's still legitimately playable. Just not as fun for many people. However, it is clear that Brawl has a stronger emphasis on defense than most fighter games. MvC2 is just completely broken in favor of offense.

I guess people find that more fun, though.

Indeed, fun is a very subjective thing...a lot of people tend to overlook the mental aspect of games and focus on "skill"- aka, reflex based portions of the games such as combos.

Smash 64 is a skill game. It's got a much shallower mental aspect than Melee or Brawl, and is determined almost entirely by your ability to zero death out of one hit. It's fun in casual play...but much shallower in a mental respect compared to Brawl.

Brawl's not bad. Brawl's defensive and slow paced, but so is chess. Chess is an extremely defensive game- even aggressive moves are usually designed to force your opponent to give up pieces to defend their king. It's also boring to watch, and kind of boring to play at lower levels of play when you can't keep track of all of your options and don't fully grasp the intricacies. Just like Brawl, IMHO.

Melee, meanwhile, hits a middle ground, as it does have a deep mental aspect, but geared more offensively and with more tech skill required, allowing a "skilled" player to make up for deficiencies or an intelligent player to make up for lack of tech skill in some regards.

Brawl is almost entirely focused on the mental aspect, and I'd hardly call it shallow. But...some people find football more fun than chess *shrug*


IMO:
Brawl = chess, Melee = football, Tatsunoko vs Capcom = pro wrestling.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Lol.

Sbr got no guts to ban Mk.

Bottom line, this topic should not even be discussed because Whobo didn't have all of the best players. It was missing quite a lot.

We should discuss this when Apex and Genisis results come. Then we will have not one but two world tourneys to discuss this issue with.

Seconding this man's opinion. We should not be discussing whether or not to ban MK based off of WHOBO.

 

[|RK|]

Why the heck did Brawl+ come up anyway. Weren't we talking about MK?

Because the Brawl community sucks. It's a shame that the smarter people are the minority.

 

[Sieguest]

A temp ban will change things. A lot. We will have straight matagames, and brawl will be at a point of maximum develpoment.

But when Mk comes back, he will change everything again.

Fact of life: humans are not accepting of change, ( don't you hate it, whenever you have to take a detour away from your favorite scenic route?) If a temp ban does change things, it's going to happen in a circle, like Avarice Panda said, what's the point if MK is going to come back anyway and "screw up" everything all over again. A temp ban is pretty much useless in that light.

 

[Zankoku]

That is an opinion! The word "bad" is an opinion word because I can argue it and say MvC2 is an mega-awesome game (I really don't think that way though) english lesson of the day

You can argue all you want, but bad is bad. "Fun" is the only thing you can have an opinion on, really.

 

[|RK|]

Fact of life: humans are not accepting of change, (why do you think almost all of the U.S. is hating on Obama?) If a temp ban does change things, it's going to happen in a circle, like Avarice Panda said, what's the point if MK is going to come back anyway and "screw up" everything all over again. A temp ban is pretty much useless in that light.

What? You just KNEW that was the wrong answer. When an old book is given to someone the world hates, it doesn't jump from 735th to 2nd place in 24 hours.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Some of my old posts. Copied and pasted.


Mk should be eliminated. And I believe that Apex and Genisis should rack in Mks all over.

Ban MK


There are ways to beat MK. But in the end, its way too difficult, and you lose 4 out of 5 times.

The fact that many characters metagames consist of play styles to beat Mk only, and they still lose to him shows something.

This causes a bend in the metagame focus line, and timeline.

It also eliminates the "6 characteristics of a good move" theory. (founded by me)

These are two crucial needs for true metagame development and a competitive MK is getting in the way of that.

Mk Should Be Banned.

The thing is, he is the top characterS. He has his own tier, and the gap between Mk and Snake(and all of the others) is huge. He hogs all of the glory and TOP TIER DOMINANCE for himself.

MK has:

1) 0 bad match ups
2) 0 bad stages
3) A growing spam wave
4) Too much tier dominance
5) Covers all 6 characteristics by using bypasses.
6) A LOT of tourney scene dominance.
7) Easy learning curve
8) Landslide victories
9) Sensible movestrings off stage, on stage

 

[BOB SAGET]

lol do i smell civil war?[/QUOTE ]

(sarcasticly) ya sure.. were all gonna say guerra civile! l'anta stanza sul retro stanno andando a pagare! Stiamo per compiere tali nerds e rendere super Smash fratelli rissa pi piacevole. io parlo italiano.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Fact of life: humans are not accepting of change, ( don't you hate it, whenever you have to take a detour away from your favorite scenic route?) If a temp ban does change things, it's going to happen in a circle, like Avarice Panda said, what's the point if MK is going to come back anyway and "screw up" everything all over again. A temp ban is pretty much useless in that light.

A temp ban will straighten the meta games of all of the other characters. Thus making them better in an easier way.

When Mk comes back we can do one of two things.

1) If he is still broken compared to the other characters, then ban him.
2) If he isn't then don't ban him.

 

[Falconv1.0]

lol do i smell civil war?[/QUOTE ]

(sarcasticly) ya sure.. were all gonna say guerra civile! l'anta stanza sul retro stanno andando a pagare! Stiamo per compiere tali nerds e rendere super Smash fratelli rissa pi piacevole. io parlo italiano.

Mods you are doing a really, really bad job here right now. I'm sorry, but come on, this is ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Sieguest]

What? You just KNEW that was the wrong answer. When an old book is given to someone the world hates, it doesn't jump from 735th to 2nd place in 24 hours.

Sorry RK Joker- but I didn't realize my political incorrectness until later, (I edited my post though...) I forgot that more than just people in the U.S. post here so I edited it to more worldwide example... ( sorry for the inconvenience)

 

[MBlaze]

I dont play MK.



You're really ignorant. Try to be less so next time you try to be funny with me.

Why would you quit the game if a character you don't even play gets banned? That makes no sense.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Why would you quit the game if a character you don't even play gets banned? That makes no sense.

Because it would show to me how stupid we are as a community, and I'd want nothing to do with that community?


Now I'm just gonna be blunt and kindly ask you to stop talking to me. kthnx

 

[MBlaze]

Because it would show to me how stupid we are as a community, and I'd want nothing to do with that community?


Now I'm just gonna be blunt and kindly ask you to stop talking to me. kthnx

Stupid we are as a community? He's screwing up the metagame and outclasses everyone in the game. :\ I'm not saying I'm for the ban but ****.. lol

 

[|RK|]

lol do i smell civil war?

(sarcasticly) ya sure.. were all gonna say guerra civile! l'anta stanza sul retro stanno andando a pagare! Stiamo per compiere tali nerds e rendere super Smash fratelli rissa pi piacevole. io parlo italiano.

Tu non parlo italiano. Tu parli Smash. Vero Smashers e intelligente, anche non vero Smashers e mas non intelligente.

And I'm only in Italian 1

EDIT:

You don't talk Italian. You talk Smash. True Smashers are intelligent, but untrue Smashers are very non-intelligent.