Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Krystedez]

legit question, did we have buffering at all in melee? like, brawl takes huge amount of timing/buffering. Melee is ALL tech skill becuase of the lack of buffering, right?

man it's been so long since I played melee.

 

[stingers]

you can buffer things out of shield with c-stick...thats like it

 

[Doc King]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHVzDhJOiSo&feature=youtu.be

D3's gotta new infinite!

 

[Ussi]

Good thing DDD's pummel is so hard to time against.

 

[C.J.]

I'm trying to think of ways D3 will grab Ness. Ness doesn't get grabbed by Marth or MK that often who are FAR more mobile than DDD as well as having semi-decent mix-ups to get the grabs (DB and ftilt mixups, dtilt to dash grab for MK, SHFF grab as Marth, etc). D3 has.. walk forward?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm trying to think of ways D3 will grab Ness. Ness doesn't get grabbed by Marth or MK that often who are FAR more mobile than DDD as well as having semi-decent mix-ups to get the grabs (DB and ftilt mixups, dtilt to dash grab for MK, SHFF grab as Marth, etc). D3 has.. walk forward?

Neither of them have a stupidly large grab range though.

I mean, look at how far away Ness is on the pivot grab in that video. lolwthbbqhax

The infinite isn't really an "infinite" since tripping and such.

 

[Doc King]

It's not that hard to grab Ness. If we can grab Sonic, then we can definitely grab Ness.

Just practice your reflexes ppl. It will help Brawl as a competitive game imo.

 

[John12346]

Can't Ness just go for an air release since Dedede's pummel isn't fast enough to force the grounded release?

 

[Doc King]

If D3 pummels correctly, Ness can't air release it.

 

[Ussi]

Good thing DDD's pummel is so hard to time against.

Can't Ness just go for an air release since Dedede's pummel isn't fast enough to force the grounded release?

I guess sarcasm makes it harder to realize i made this point

it's like waiting to air release onto a platform on SV, mash when you need too. Its the same reason its not really possible for DDD to infinite Mario, Luigi, and Samus due to how fast you can mash out of pummeling.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Its the same reason its not really possible for DDD to infinite Mario, Luigi, and Samus due to how fast you can mash out of pummeling.

I'm not even going to bother correcting this.

 

[Yink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHVzDhJOiSo&feature=youtu.be

D3's gotta new infinite!

Oh, for a second I thought it was more serious, like, Ness couldn't even move or air release/get the extra inch/etc.

I'm trying to think of ways D3 will grab Ness. Ness doesn't get grabbed by Marth or MK that often who are FAR more mobile than DDD as well as having semi-decent mix-ups to get the grabs (DB and ftilt mixups, dtilt to dash grab for MK, SHFF grab as Marth, etc). D3 has.. walk forward?

That matchup is a -3 for a few things: Ness DOES get grabbed if he's not careful (though, you can say the same for Marth) and offstage DDD bairs Ness to death. It's more so that if Ness is losing, DDD can pretty much just bait a ton of Ness' moves and then grab him on the cool down or mistake of any kind.

If D3 pummels correctly, Ness can't air release it.

Yeah too bad you can trip and he can still force an air release and do the proper mashing technique to slide far enough away where I don't think this'd work anymore. I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

proper mashing technique to slide far enough away where I don't think this'd work anymore. I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert.

I thought of this too, so I just held away, but I didn't notice any difference so...

I could have been doing it wrong though.

I've said it about 6 times already (srs), but this isn't an infinite in the strictest sense of the word.

 

[Doc King]

It's kind of like the grab release infinite DK has and the zero death thing Marth has. Nothing like what D3 has on DK, which is crucial.

 

[Yink]

I'm really not sure what else to say. Shaky and I were practicing it awhile ago and if I used Marth, I HAD to walk forward, no small tiny step, like full out walk. Yeah you don't just hold away iirc....I wish there was a thread, I know K Prime talked about it but I have no idea where that thread is.

Unless DDD's pivot grab is bigger than that (though, that looked maximum) then with the extra inch that shouldn't work.

But yes, this is not really something I personally as a Ness should be too worried about in an already disgusting matchup haha. I'm far more afraid of Marth just...walking over and grabbing me than DDD doing this.

Also @Doc King: If you mean the DK Cargo Grab for Ness, no, it's not like that at all so I hope you're not referencing that...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah, this doesn't affect the Ness vs Dedede matchup at all.

At best it could probably be used to unstale a few moves and rack up another 6-10% damage.

Also my theory is that Ness has retardedly stretched hurtboxes during the grab release animation, since realistically Dedede's pivot grab shouldn't connect.

 

[Yink]

It's like Nintendo gave up on the EarthBound series when they made this game. Oh wait, they did that, to the Americans at least, already.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

inb4ssb4hasnoearthboundcharacters

 

[Doc King]

Somewhere, Sakurai is laughing with his King Dedede evil laugh he does when using his final smash.

 

[Chuee]

Uh, does anyone have the frame data on D3's pivot grab and dash animation?
For some reason I'm not seeing that as being less than 10 frames.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Uh, does anyone have the frame data on D3's pivot grab and dash animation?
For some reason I'm not seeing that as being less than 10 frames.

Can't remember offhand, but I tested it in frame advance, Ness can't do anything.

 

[Flayl]

If D3 pummels correctly, Ness can't air release it.

This is false, I should know since I've looked into grab-releases a LOT.

 

[C.J.]

Well, it doesn't have to be 10 frames. 11 frames still works.

DDD can act ten frames sooner than Ness, frame 10 Ness buffers spotdodge. Frame 11 is the start-up of spotdodge, frame 12 is invincibility.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wasn;t it shown that EIDI does not exist?

 

[C.J.]

Yes, then it was shown it did exist. Then someone else "proved" it didn't work somehow. Then I stopped caring. I'll just take Yink/FOW's word on it.

 

[Anthon1996]

How do you fight Olimar as Luigi? Get past the camping and ****?

 

[-LzR-]

I think stuff like nair kinda make Pikmin useless most of the time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Tornado and nair.

 

[Chuee]

Wasn;t it shown that EIDI does not exist?

You can vary the distance you release from, don't know if it works like DI though.

 

[Ghostbone]

How do you fight Olimar as Luigi? Get past the camping and ****?

Tornado, up-tilt, jab to up-b, laugh.

 

[Doc King]

Here's some proof that dash dance pivot grab exist.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7IDPNS8O - Doc King Replay 1
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O4XIJXYI - Doc King Replay 2
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EJ65D5BL - Doc King Replay 3
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B1Z3DLNM - Doc King Replay 4

For the Yoshi flat stages infinite, even though Aerodrome claimed it as it doesn't work, I'm able to do it. Aerodrome should probably examine the vid and see how it works.

 

[-LzR-]

In order to get the amount of people who will actually download those and watch them can be easily calculated. You must multiply the amount of ****s I give by 4 and the number you get is the amount of views. Thank you.

 

[da K.I.D.]

For all those who are incompetent at math, the answer to the above equation is zero.

 

[Doc King]

Well next time we argue matchups, you guys can't makes that no vid excuse anymore.

 

[-LzR-]

All we have is some rp files. No videos. Just a bunch of data.

 

[Xubble]

I haven't bothered to look at these videos, BUT...

Are they showing this grab release infinite in the middle of tourney-level play (and NO, not WiFi) with high success?

If yes, then congrats, you have some evidence to back up any claims relating to the Ness/D3 MU. If no, then you might as well show me that infinite that C. Falcon has on ROB. It's worthless if it's not having any impact on the metagame.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

You don't have to be a pro MK to beat a pro Ike

i havnt read this whole thread

just name searched


but just curious, which "none" pro mk's do you kno beat ryo's ike?

 

[Ussi]

i havnt read this whole thread

just name searched


but just curious, which "none" pro mk's do you kno beat ryo's ike?

Ryo isn't the only pro Ike there is, but I just remember the time when Doom beat San at Apex.

MU is balls

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That could be said about most mid low tiers though. I've beaten Zigsta's Bowser and I ain't even a top level Diddy

 

[Cassio]

lol, doom is a pretty bad loss. but iirc san was also losing to pikapikas MK too. That was quite awhile ago.