Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[KuroganeHammer]

Scatz, you wouldn't possibly have a video would you?

I can has?

 

[Scatz]

Uh...The video was from innocent roads last time I remember. I'll go look it up.

Edit: Found it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUtUo7jOGGU&feature=channel_video_title

 

[dean.]

I don't think he's talking about the buffer pivot infintes, but rather something else he's supposedly discovered that has yet to be verified.

 

[Ishiey]

akslkdmvasdm okay guys, it's not that hard, Doc King has only been talking about this forever.

dthrow > dash dance forwards then backwards > pivot grab

Now someone go try it out and let everyone else know if it works because I'm too lazy to do it myself and nobody's going to take Doc King's word for it

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Uh...The video was from innocent roads last time I remember. I'll go look it up.

Edit: Found it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUtUo7jOGGU&feature=channel_video_title

thx mang, but basically what Pezza said:

I don't think he's talking about the buffer pivot infintes, but rather something else he's supposedly discovered that has yet to be verified.

akslkdmvasdm okay guys, it's not that hard, Doc King has only been talking about this forever.

dthrow > dash dance forwards then backwards > pivot grab

Now someone go try it out and let everyone else know if it works because I'm too lazy to do it myself and nobody's going to take Doc King's word for it

If this is the case, then it doesn't work on Yoshi at least.

*only tested it on Yoshi*

 

[Scatz]

If that's the case, then it'd work on characters that still remain close for D3 to small step CG. Yoshi doesn't work cause he moves too far away forcing D3 to dash grab just to keep it going.

And I apologize for assuming the wrong subject at hand.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

If that's the case, then it'd work on characters that still remain close for D3 to small step CG. Yoshi doesn't work cause he moves too far away forcing D3 to dash grab just to keep it going.

And I apologize for assuming the wrong subject at hand.

No need to apologise man, at first I though Doc King was talking about the same thing. lol

 

[1PokeMastr]

Reason is Wario's don't attempt the CG is because if they're off by a frame, or two. Or it's the fact they don't bother to learn it, even though it can switch the momentum of a match pretty quickly.
Falco can simply buffer a Turnaround Jab, then follow into the Jab -> Second Hit Jab -> Jab Cancel -> Repeat, or Input a Follow up. Even then he can just SDi away from Falco and Punish our missed follow up.

 

[Ishiey]

lol dw about it Scatz, it's pretty easy to miss if you're just popping into the thread for a bit and haven't seen many of Doc's posts on the subject. Sorry if I came off negatively, it wasn't directed at anyone, I just wanted to end the confusion

@ Wario's CG, it's poop easy. You buffer two inputs, that can't be considered difficult at this stage of the metagame. Really, I don't understand why more Warios don't spend 10 minutes practicing it so they can get that free % + time to charge their waft.

 

[1PokeMastr]

After testing what Doc King posted, even though I had to use the GCC.. ( I play with the Wii Mote side ways). Anyway, that aside.

It works on Bowser, meaning, we can infinite him.. oh wait. Haha.
Though, it is easier than doing what Innocentroads posted.
It's just a buffered Dash Dance and on the input you make going away from Bowser press Z or whatever you have grab set to.
Doing it on Dk would have no benefit, but, it doesn't work on Yoshi. Not even with Pause Buffering.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I imagined it'd work on Bowser, but you can already infinite him so...

 

[1PokeMastr]

Yeah, that's why I said 'Oh wait'.

 

[Ghostbone]

So it works on DK? Guess that whole "you must dash between grabs" rule to get rid of the infinite doesn't work anymore (though I guess D3 has an almost 3% tripping chance).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If done from 0, chances are high that D3 will trip before KO percentage.

 

[-LzR-]

Infinites involving a chance to trip are annoying. Just ask an IC player, they will rather practice another, harder, chaingrab just to not trip because it sucks.

 

[Ghostbone]

If done from 0, chances are high that D3 will trip before KO percentage.

It's probably around 50-50.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't understand, if it's buffered, isn't it just going to be in the same sized frame window as...any other buffered CG? (ie 10 frame window, cause that's the buffering window)

Edit:
zmx, where the hell did you get that apostrophe?
can't
See the difference?

Double edit: Oh..top left of the keyboard...didn't know that existed
Or, should I say...didn`t

Try doing it. 's Dthrow is really fast and the buffer window is obvious. s Dthrow is really slow and the buffer window is not obvious.

Wario D-Throw CG on Falco goes from 40 - 110%, You can Buffer an Fsmash and it can and will hit you.
Though, has never happened to me.
Wolf goes from 40 - 120, may even start earlier/ end later.
Fox goes more than both.
Dk goes 0 - 110 -> 120 - 160.
Though, you can always F-Throw at the end to try and catch some downwards inputs.

NO. does not have a guaranteed Fsmash out of a Dthrow on anyone. 's is from 59-200%. can't be cg'd. At least do your research before you post...:

Falco - 53% to 120%
Donkey Kong - 0% to 100, 110% to 145%
Bowser - 0% to 180%
Falcon - 0% to 70%
Wolf - 59% to 200%
Ganondorf - 0% to 90%

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I haven't seen so much discussion of such an irrelevant character ever. At least Sonic and Yoshi do work relative to their tier position. Can we talk about them again?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No, we don't want to talk about Yoshi or Sonic.

Let's talk about ZSS and Marth.

 

[infiniteV115]

Try doing it. 's Dthrow is really fast and the buffer window is obvious. s Dthrow is really slow and the buffer window is not obvious.

Oh, that's what you mean. Well, I kinda see where you're coming from, cause Wario's dthrow animation IS weird, but surely by putting in enough practice you'll be able to identify when the buffer window is active. To be fair, I didn't try it...but it can't be THAT hard...
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure ICs players put in a ton of work on their CGs, given that the timing for it varies with weight, so they have to practice it for each character (or at least each character that matters). Seems to me like the amount of work that Wario mains would have to put in would be significantly less, and boom, Falco (a prevalent top-tier threat) suddenly becomes a much easier MU.

 

[Kuro~]

I practiced it for 10 minutes when i thought i was gonna pick up wario a while back. And from that 10 minutes i got it roughly 60% of the time. It IS NOT hard. There are a few "tricks" that really make it so much easier.

 

[Alphicans]

I was walking around the genesis venue and I happened to see someone teaching ally the cg on falco, and he was starting to get it after like the 3rd try. There is no excuse not to know how to do it.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah, I'm not willing to believe any infinite in this game is too hard to do consistently, except for the buffered reverse pivot grab thingy that was linked at the top of this page.

And apparently that one's not even necessary because of the dash dance pivot grab infinite,so....

Edit: Oh, and possibly Pikachu's dthrow>uair>footstool>QAC lock>jab lock>thunder thing, because during the QAC lock part you'd have to react to your opponent's SDI for it to be an infinite...

 

[Cassio]

CG's and infinite's need an exceptionally high success rate. Assuming a technique that takes 10 iterations (most take more), if you mess up 1/10 times then youll be successful about 35% of the time. If you only mess up 1/100 times then youll be successfull about 90% of the time.

 

[Krystedez]

Everyone keeps saying " I can do it so easily "...

Why don't you guys pick up Wario or something and do it to Kain or Shugo in bracket then?

I try. . . but it's so much more satisfying/rewarding to simply beat them (in Kain's case, Shugo didn't play me with Falco when I used Wario). I get like, ONE regrab and then say "ugh, I might mess up, let me just mess with his head" and do something else.

Like when you can seriously do it 90 percent of the time like Cassio says, AND demonstrate it in bracket, then start saying it's easy. It's not so easy under pressure and determining the right percent area.

 

[Player-1]

our local Wario main in GA, Micaelis, can do it REALLY well and usually doesn't mess up even in tournament.

 

[Doc King]

Wow, I'm happy ppl finally figured out how to do this and it succeeded.

I was actually successful though with Yoshi. Maybe I should send a replay of me doing it on Yoshi. The Yoshi one is actually pretty hard. You dash dance very quickly or just buffering it before Yoshi slides too far.

Edit: You guys should probably do this in 1/4 speed if you wanna be able to do it easier.

 

[Yink]

since yink only talks about ness and lucas, id assume her comment has something to do with a matchup that ness has that involves some random GR stuff.

I talk about Yoshi too, heh. Also no it had nothing to do with Ness or Lucas, it was just sort of something I was realizing from awhile ago.

 

[Ishiey]

Under pressure and with a percent constraint, I can understand how someone would mess it up in tournament. But it's really pretty simple mechanically as far as infinites go, I don't think there's any denying that :/

Doc King, if it works on characters that aren't already hit with the regular infinite, please post a video. Try to use frame-advance as well if you have access, so you can test accurately and make sure that the opponent can't do anything to get out of it.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Thanks Krys for validation of how it's not easy to do. The problem with cg'ing is that if he messes up even by a one frame difference then will shine out. Try cg'ing a that is trying to shine out. Cpu's don't try shining out. I can consistently cg a in training mode that doesn't shine because cpu's fail to try that to get out.

And again, the percents are very specific. If the cg on is started around 70% then it will end sooner or might not work at all. Dthrow must be stale by a certain percent or the cg will not work.

vs doesn't change too much with the cg because still has to somehow grab . will be outprioritizing with jab, getting away with side b, and walling with SHDL. does not get in easily to land a grab. also can cg into a spike or GR spike, which equates to a ton of damage. The matchup is probably even or +1 .

vs is a tad different by comparison. Both characters are heavy, but has safe moves on block while does not. Both characters ( and ) air mobility are similar. The will be forcing the approach since he has a projectile. The matchup is fairly even without the cg and -2 with it. The cg has to be specific and perfectly done. can always avoid it on every stage with platforms or changing terrain. If bans smashville then he's pretty well off. Fd is large and more comfortable for to space moves. The problem with Sv is that it is small, though I believe cannot cg us on Sv's moving platform. I don't like the small space.

Try playing a / with and try to land a grab at a specific percent and then do the cg. It's easier said then done. , , and are obviously easier to land a grab on lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i was about to tell you to stop to stop doing that with the pictures, but then i realised that for some dumb reason it actually makes your posts easier to read.

 

[Sinister Slush]

()
/,,

All I read.
No but seriously, I even tried the CG with wario and still had a fairly difficult time doing it on 1/4 in training mode. I can only imagine the amount of times i'd mess up If I used Wario in tournament and attempted to use it...

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Edit: You guys should probably do this in 1/4 speed if you wanna be able to do it easier.

If you're talking about training mode, changing the speed changes the number of frames for some moves in order to make it flow smoothly.

 

[Ghostbone]

Falco - 53% to 120%
Donkey Kong - 0% to 100, 110% to 145%
Bowser - 0% to 180%
Falcon - 0% to 70%
Wolf - 59% to 200%
Ganondorf - 0% to 90%

Falcon can definitely be chain-grabbed further than 70%.....

No but seriously, I even tried the CG with wario and still had a fairly difficult time doing it on 1/4 in training mode. I can only imagine the amount of times i'd mess up If I used Wario in tournament and attempted to use it...

1/4 mode makes buffering things really ******** so don't do that >.>

Does wario have to buffer a running grab or just a grab? Either way it shouldn't be that hard, just sounds like Peach's chain-grab except going for longer....

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Holy wolfs.

 

[Seagull Joe]

's cg isn't even a buffered cg. That's completely different...

If you mess up her cg then you just have 0 technical skill whatsoever
.

 

[C.J.]

Don't make fun of me, Seagull.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

FOOL!

Don't you ever question Seagull Man again!

 

[Krystedez]

Well, I wouldnt even attempt CGing a DK unless I'm REALLY feeling good, because even 90 percent success means 10 percent of the time you might get super-duper punished and lose a stock possibly if you're not careful.

Bowser and Ganon... Well Bowser cant do anything life-threatening on a missed grab, he's usually just tryin to UPB which just resets the situation. Ganon, even if you mess up the grab I believe can't rush in and get his own grab which IS life threatening. Otherwise he is derp'd in comparison to DK.

 

[Doc King]

It seems like no one who plays Brawl has good tech skill.