MELEE-FC10R Legacy...is done!

[The Good Doctor]

this form of posting is super annoying

So is debating statistics in a tournament thread, where I might add has a place elsewhere.

The double negative was on purpose, if that's what you meant congrats.

 

[Kal]

Man, you just hatin'.

 

[baka4moé]

yea these blocks of text are getting annoying, if anything reducing hype imo. discuss those things somewhere else please, it seems its just u two that care about what ur saying.

mura and john, i like ur posts though. yea it would suck if i (tho i wont make it that far lol) lost hundreds of dollars to a freakin klaptrap or birdo egg.

 

[Rosedemon]

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Hey, I was just looking at the pdf for the rules and general info. Is there a way to not enter certain events with the flat rate or do you plan to do regular registration where you select events you want to enter?

I haven't really kept up with this thread to see what you've said about this. All I see is tl;dr everywhere!

Btw, the pdf says Metaknight is banned in 64 lol. That guy overcenteralizes 64 too?!

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah we determined in 2007 that Meta Knight was overpowered in Smash 64.

 

[Metà]

we've also been having much more diverse results at melee nationals since the MBR decided to ban him

EDIT: does anyone have any stats on how often the klap trap appears on japes? I've been trying to find a pattern, but so far it just seems completely random. I think this breaks your 'turnip threshold' or whatever. it's literally a one-hit KO with little to no warning, that can get you as soon as you set foot near the ledge or try to recover from underneath. I just don't understand how that warrants inclusion at a national, i really don't......

 

[Strong Badam]

the klaptrap will appear every 20ish seconds, with a deviation of 7ish seconds. it is random, but not completely.
additionally, the stage hazard discourages ledge camping, so i can't see much of a reason to ban it specifically for the klaptrap.

 

[Metà]

it also punishes people with instant death for being back-thrown at the wrong time

don't get me wrong, the anti-camping thing is fine (even though i like to ledge-camp lol), but it's pretty ridiculous how much of a threat it can be at the worst possible times

 

[PEEF!]

the klaptrap will appear every 20ish seconds, with a deviation of 7ish seconds. it is random, but not completely.
additionally, the stage hazard discourages ledge camping, so i can't see much of a reason to ban it specifically for the klaptrap.

Randomly, but not entirely? Could you give me an example of an entirely random stage hazard?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Flatzone is pretty stupidly random, iirc.

 

[Kal]

Icicle Mountain's vertical movement is also random, I think.

To people QQing about there being walls of text: why don't you just... not read it? You're not exactly contributing by just pointing out that you dislike what's being written.

Meta, whether something "breaks the turnip threshold" is difficult to actually show. But an important thing to note is that the Klaptrap can be accounted for a meaningful way (specifically, by avoiding the locations where he attacks), which suggests that his impact is minimal. And, from what I've seen, no good player who knows what he's doing has anything to worry about with regards to that particular stage hazard.

 

[KishPrime]

Let's filter the ruleset discussions off here, guys: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14441263#post14441263

I've tried to write out a rational response to everything that's been brought up so far. Please let me know if I missed anything. I am fine with stage debates and enjoy engaging in them, but I don't want to choke off this thread either.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Randomly, but not entirely? Could you give me an example of an entirely random stage hazard?

Who knows if melee even has one. I haven't taken the time to check every hazard in all the banned stages. A fully random hazard would have the possibility for having 2 back to back instances of randomness as well as possibly have a very long gap between instances. Creators probably saw this as a problem and made things pseudorandom

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i wouldn't call it a hazard, but how does the game choose which transformation to go to on stadium? cause it feels like some matches you will ONLY get the rock stage when it does happen, but other matches it'll certainly flip between the other elements. is it some sort of rotation, or is that random?

 

[PEEF!]

Who knows if melee even has one. I haven't taken the time to check every hazard in all the banned stages. A fully random hazard would have the possibility for having 2 back to back instances of randomness as well as possibly have a very long gap between instances. Creators probably saw this as a problem and made things pseudorandom

That was my point. Saying that something isn't "entirely" random doesn't make it any less substantial or game-changing.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I did not perceive that point coming... Anyways, i'm with you on that one.

 

[Kal]

The issue isn't really about randomness. It's about the impact of the hazard, how well it can be accounted for, and how much it decreases the consistency of results. If the cloud were actually random, it wouldn't really matter, because its impact on gameplay is pretty small. On the other hand, if every 45 seconds, a Shy Guy came by and killed the player with more stock (completely non-random), that would probably qualify Yoshi's Story for a ban.

In the midst of this argument, people get caught up on the randomness. It's important, but isn't the entirety of the issue.

 

[SypherPhoenix]

Shouldn't this tournament be FC15?

 

[KishPrime]

Shouldn't this tournament be FC15?

Pretty sure THIS is the type of discussion that should be happening in the FC thread.

 

[Juggleguy]

Is this FC10R or FC-Legacy or The Legacy of MELEE-FC? I'm so confused...

 

[Big_R]

there's an intricate design as to why this tourny will be called what it is and i have happily never understood it at all.

 

[Kal]

I think it should be called FCexy. No one will know whether it's pronounced "eff siexy" or "eff sexy." Or "eff see ee ex why." Man, phonetically writing out how **** is pronounced is really annoying.

 

[MookieRah]

I could explain the name of the tournament and the distinction between legacy and 10R, but I think that would ruin some of the fun.

 

[KishSquared]

Don't believe Mookie's lies. There is no such distinction.

 

[Battlecow]

I really don't like the idea that in order to participate in the 64 side event I have to pay the full $85 and stay for three days. The apex way, where you pay venue and event fees, making it cheaper for everyone except the people playing 9 events, and payouts go according to number of entrants, and where small side events can be done in a day--saving everyone lots of time--is pretty obviously superior.

The way it works here, I'm essentially subsidizing events that I don't particularly care about (not that I bear them animosity or anything), wasting money on food that I may or may not even want to eat, and spending 3 days (two of which I'll have to skip work for because what the **** monday and tuesday tournament) and 3 nights' worth of lodging even though most of the people in my event would probably much rather be gone after one or two.

Not trying to come off as whiny, but I hope future tournaments will take note and allow more customizable tournament experiences and less stupid experimental ****.

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

the johnning is getting out of control

exactly what I was gunna say

if you guys don't like it then don't come, this is the midwest and this is how we do it
you can break our banks but you will NEVER break our spirit and traditions

I actually found the exact reason that the Kishes are using for the rulest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szn0VqSa61Q#t=0m8s

peef gets it

and if you STILL have a problem, ****ign deal with it. Shut up, pick fox or falcon, and play, because every other character is boring anyway

 

[ORLY]

i love to know tomaluke always has my back

bros for lyfe

 

[Dart!]

Experiments are bound to fail.

 

[Kal]

It's true. All forms of testing are necessarily useless.

 

[Divinokage]

I don't mind either way about the rules, I will simply come and annihilate every single one of you. =)

 

[Strong Badam]

It's true. All forms of testing are necessarily useless.

I agree. It's why I never try new things with Donkey Kong. Nothing new I try could possibly be useful compared to what I've been doing.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I don't mind either way about the rules, I will simply come and annihilate every single one of you. =)

Prepare......























your anus

 

[bertbusdriver]

I really don't like the idea that in order to participate in the 64 side event I have to pay the full $85 and stay for three days. The apex way, where you pay venue and event fees, making it cheaper for everyone except the people playing 9 events, and payouts go according to number of entrants, and where small side events can be done in a day--saving everyone lots of time--is pretty obviously superior.

The way it works here, I'm essentially subsidizing events that I don't particularly care about (not that I bear them animosity or anything), wasting money on food that I may or may not even want to eat, and spending 3 days (two of which I'll have to skip work for because what the **** monday and tuesday tournament) and 3 nights' worth of lodging even though most of the people in my event would probably much rather be gone after one or two.

Not trying to come off as whiny, but I hope future tournaments will take note and allow more customizable tournament experiences and less stupid experimental ****.

But now you might as well enter melee since it is primarily a melee event $85 is def kinda steep for someone primarily interested in 64, but it'll be worth it for the experience of a classic huge tournament experience. Multi-day tournaments are the ****. I don't remember if I told you about my day 2 APEX experience, but it was the ****. It was a like a vacation within a vacation.

 

[MookieRah]

wasting money on food that I may or may not even want to eat

I can vouch for the food being good at FC3 & 6. I mean it's not like it was a sit down restaurant or anything, but I enjoyed it. Then again, I have no idea how picky of an eater you are.

The catering is there to lessen the blow of the overall price, as you have meals built in. When you prepare meals in bulk like that it brings down the cost lower than fast food and the like. It's also good that they have these meals because it means that you don't have to drive somewhere to get food. I honestly think that it's a great thing and should be done at other large events whenever feasible, but that's just me.

 

[jeffgordon24]

Don't worry there are a whole bunch of places to eat that are within walking distance.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Don't believe Mookie's lies. There is no such distinction.

the best part is i dont think anyone really cares what the name of the tournament is lol. you guys keep reminding me and i keep forgetting this is an issue.

 

[Metà]

has anyone addressed battlecow and dart's issue? I think this is really important, $85 IS hella steep for someone only interested in entering select events. is there any way you guys can compromise with people like that? I'm only saying this cause I think it would really help boost attendance in all events. that and I'm hoping there is some way that people can enter both brawl singles and 64 singles, or 64 and PM or whatnot >____>

 

[KishSquared]

There are logistics to consider, if we ran FC such that everyone could enter everything then it would take 5 days. We'd all love to enable everyone to enter everything. If you want to enable everyone to enter everything, then please look at the schedule and offer a solution to the logistical problem it would create

Brawl players will be able to enter both singles and doubles. 64 and PM will not be able to overlap.

EDIT: I'll let Prime answer the entry fee question since he's intimate with the budgeting. I'm really not sure what you mean by 'experimental'... FC has always been run this way. The experiment was over in 2004 :D

 

[KishPrime]

has anyone addressed battlecow and dart's issue? I think this is really important, $85 IS hella steep for someone only interested in entering select events. is there any way you guys can compromise with people like that? I'm only saying this cause I think it would really help boost attendance in all events. that and I'm hoping there is some way that people can enter both brawl singles and 64 singles, or 64 and PM or whatnot >____>

Unfortunately those three tournaments are going on simultaneously, so there's no real way to work that out.

What I'm sure you realize is that you're primarily paying for the venue, staff, TVs, security, and the right to play friendlies with 200-300 other people for 3 days. Even if we broke it out separately, it'd still be close to that because we'd have to charge more for the individual events to make sure we pulled in enough to cover the base costs. A flat fee makes planning easier, and that helps the event on all levels from staff to participants.

There are around 20 hours in the schedule where events will take up 0-60% of systems. Friendlies will be abundant. Bringing TVs and systems will both lower the cost for you and provide more friendlies for all. We'll buy additional TVs for pretty much as many systems as people can bring, no joke. It'll be a 3-day Smash party.

We're reviewing the budget one last time before registration launches, but that's about where the entry fee is going to be, I suspect.