MELEE-FC10R Legacy...is done!

[standardtoaster]

When you say buy tvs from us, you mean just for the tournament, right?

 

[Strong Badam]

Lowering your cost is an incentive to bring the TV, but you of course still own the TV. He said some of the budget is going toward purchasing TVs for use at the event, independent of the ones brought by attendants.

 

[standardtoaster]

Alright, then.

 

[KishSquared]

Lowering your cost is an incentive to bring the TV, but you of course still own the TV.

Someone hasn't read the waiver...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

 

[Battlecow]

Unfortunately those three tournaments are going on simultaneously, so there's no real way to work that out.

What I'm sure you realize is that you're primarily paying for the venue, staff, TVs, security, and the right to play friendlies with 200-300 other people for 3 days. Even if we broke it out separately, it'd still be close to that because we'd have to charge more for the individual events to make sure we pulled in enough to cover the base costs. A flat fee makes planning easier, and that helps the event on all levels from staff to participants.

There are around 20 hours in the schedule where events will take up 0-60% of systems. Friendlies will be abundant. Bringing TVs and systems will both lower the cost for you and provide more friendlies for all. We'll buy additional TVs for pretty much as many systems as people can bring, no joke. It'll be a 3-day Smash party.

We're reviewing the budget one last time before registration launches, but that's about where the entry fee is going to be, I suspect.

Yeah, I appreciate all that, and I look forward to those friendlies, but... other tournaments do not charge me $85 to enter 64. Yeah, I understand that there are costs involved, but no other tournament I've heard of in recent times has had enough costs to make it $85 to enter a side event. What's different about this one?

At Apex, it cost $35 to enter 64. Apex had everything you have; friendly TV's, giant venue, etc. What element of your event adds on the extra $50? The free food? I'll take a pass on that, bro. Say you wanted to enter Melee at Apex; $45. To get to $85, you'd have had to enter Brawl, brawl teams, melee, melee teams, AND 64.

Again, I feel like I'm whining here, so I'll stop, but I'm genuinely curious as to what you're doing for me that costs so much goddamn money. The cost isn't going to prohibit me from coming because I have that whole MM thing with Gio that I actually have to do, but I was planning on bringing a van-full of five or six buddies, and that's really not going to happen at $85 a pop.

But now you might as well enter melee since it is primarily a melee event $85 is def kinda steep for someone primarily interested in 64, but it'll be worth it for the experience of a classic huge tournament experience. Multi-day tournaments are the ****. I don't remember if I told you about my day 2 APEX experience, but it was the ****. It was a like a vacation within a vacation.

I was planning on entering melee, but **** if I'm playing on jungle japes. I might be terrible at that game, but I have principles.

 

[Strong Badam]

Apex had friendly TVs?

lmao

 

[PGH Carroll]

$85?? whyyyyyyyyyyyy jesus christtttttttt.

 

[Metà]

Unfortunately those three tournaments are going on simultaneously, so there's no real way to work that out.

What I'm sure you realize is that you're primarily paying for the venue, staff, TVs, security, and the right to play friendlies with 200-300 other people for 3 days. Even if we broke it out separately, it'd still be close to that because we'd have to charge more for the individual events to make sure we pulled in enough to cover the base costs. A flat fee makes planning easier, and that helps the event on all levels from staff to participants.

There are around 20 hours in the schedule where events will take up 0-60% of systems. Friendlies will be abundant. Bringing TVs and systems will both lower the cost for you and provide more friendlies for all. We'll buy additional TVs for pretty much as many systems as people can bring, no joke. It'll be a 3-day Smash party.

We're reviewing the budget one last time before registration launches, but that's about where the entry fee is going to be, I suspect.

$85 still seems like too much though, I mean, why not just charge like $40 for venue fee, then like $20 for each event? for people entering melee singles, doubles, and one other event, it'll come to around the same cost anyway, it'll just allow more people to come and enter just one event, if they so please

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

lol I don't feel like I should go to this if I have to pay 85 ****ing bucks to even play

Apex had friendly TVs?

lmao

I remember one of the brawl players I knew said they only got like 4 games throughout the day lol, that's horrible.

The only time I didn't play 64 was when I wanted to eat or talk to somebody. Friendly setups everywhere!

 

[Battlecow]

^^I feel like I should be trying to convince you to come, but honestly... for $85? I can't do it with a straight face.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Personally, I would rather pay them $85 and know that all their bills are being met rather than finding out after the tournament that they costs exceeded the money coming in and not being able to pay out to the winners

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I agree with Sveet. Honestly, entry fees for smash tournies are generally low so I understand the shock. But if you look at entry fees for large tournaments for things like chess, you're usually looking at $150+. I can understand why smash64 players, ect don't want to pay for Melee. Maybe we should consider different pay options depending on how many events the player wants to play in.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Personally, I would rather pay them $85 and know that all their bills are being met rather than finding out after the tournament that they costs exceeded the money coming in and not being able to pay out to the winners

quoted for truth, and light.

#pounded

 

[Strong Badam]

it's not like entering 1 event is going to suddenly make the cost go down a bunch. i'm not involved with the budgeting or anything but it'd probably be like 60 or 65. if $20 is enough to prevent you from going to a tourney, I dunno if you should be traveling to nationals lol

 

[Divinokage]

Battlecow is willing to bet 200$ MM but not pay 85$ to come to FC.. lolol.

 

[mers]

Wait. Battlecow totally owes me 20 bucks.

Thanks for the reminder haha.

 

[KishPrime]

We'll see what we can do. If we find ways to lower entry fees, people usually complain on the prize end. I can't speak to the APEX budget, but they had a lot of additional sponsor support. One piece that is different is that the "food money" is actually the venue rental agreement - we simply had to purchase two meals for all to get the venue. So yeah, no real way to opt out. The hotel rooms are also way cheaper than the APEX hotel was - we could've just left the hotel rooms as more expensive and not provided any meals. Direct comparisons are useful, but you have to look at the whole thing.

That said, I will do my best to figure out a calculation on a B/C event only pass before we go live with registration.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

$85 is a lot of cash for a smash tournament and is going to really hurt your attendance Kish's. Dope, Shady and I aren't going for that price.

I only wanted to enter melee singles in the first place and maybe doubles. Same with both of them. Why should we have to donate 45% of our money we put in to events we have absolutely no interest in? This is supposed to be the best MELEE event ever, and the majority of us could care less for brawl, 64, and project M.

$50-60 for singles + doubles is fair.

EDIT: The arguments saying paying more is better are legit, but paying for events we have no interest in is not. Melee should pay more for bigger pots, and brawl/64 should pay more separately. We should not be required to boost their pots

 

[KishSquared]

I have to honestly ask this - is $25 really breaking the bank for people? You say you'll come for $60, but not $85? Considering the cost of gas, hotels, and food, you're basically saying that you want a 5% reduction in total cost, and then you'll come. I can't quite see the logic, but correct me if I'm missing something.

Keep in mind that you get $5 off for each piece of equipment you bring. Very few people will likely end up paying $85. If you have to boot a TV from your car to bring someone, charge them the $5

 

[john!]

a better trick would be to keep increasing the price by one dollar every day

then when people start saying that they don't want to go anymore:

"is $1 really breaking the bank for people?"

 

[Tink]

oh man, 5 bux off for each setup? sweeettt....fc costing 75 or less now =D.

i think both sides of the price "lock" have great points and im with both of them. tho, i was excited to see i would get to play 4 events, 1 of which i know i wouldnt have tried/payed for, but will be sooo fun(64 teams)...i like the idea.

 

[PGH Carroll]

MELEE FC 10!!! COME PAY FOR BRAWL 64 & PROJECT M!!

for the 90% of the smash community that plays one game this is ********.

 

[4% APR]

Wasn't FCD like 75$ for just melee? I guess it was a long time ago but that didnt seem to hurt attendance

 

[KishPrime]

Wasn't FCD like 75$ for just melee? I guess it was a long time ago but that didnt seem to hurt attendance

Yeah it was. :/ My only explanation for why this seems like a lot is that people are comparing to APEX, but again, if you're staying in the hotel (and I don't really know what your other option is), you're actually coming out pretty far ahead.

I am going to look into a B/C pass, though. Otherwise, bring setups? The registration will let you bring up to 10, and we'll buy TVs to cover setups up to a 4:1 ratio, which should be pretty danged awesome.

Oh also, this may not be clear, but it'll be $5 for each system/game combo, AND $5 for each TV.

 

[KishSquared]

We charged $50 for FC3 and ended up with a shortage in the prize distribution - perhaps the only blemish on the FC name, and certainly a motivator for Ken to host his own tournament series. We're very careful about ensuring there are enough prizes for a national tournament of this scale.

Prior FCs were subsidized by the free venue, something we no longer enjoy. The cost stayed at $75 from FC6 to FCD primarily due to the MLG sponsorship. Having lost both venue and MLG, it's sort of an 'is what it is' scenario. We'll likely lose money on this tournament, so asking us to lower the cost is basically asking us to pay for you to come

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

im a homo

**** the police
will be winning this for mother russia

 

[standardtoaster]

Mother Russia?

 

[Kal]

That was the greatest thing I've ever read.

 

[Alex Strife]

We'll see what we can do. If we find ways to lower entry fees, people usually complain on the prize end. I can't speak to the APEX budget, but they had a lot of additional sponsor support. One piece that is different is that the "food money" is actually the venue rental agreement - we simply had to purchase two meals for all to get the venue. So yeah, no real way to opt out. The hotel rooms are also way cheaper than the APEX hotel was - we could've just left the hotel rooms as more expensive and not provided any meals. Direct comparisons are useful, but you have to look at the whole thing.

That said, I will do my best to figure out a calculation on a B/C event only pass before we go live with registration.

Hey Kish

figured I chime in with my Apex info.

We spent a lot of money on venue/renting hotel rooms/paying for staff/paying for on-air talent/paying streams/pay hotel rooms for staff/ooc ppl ... we spend a lot of money just getting as much as possible for the event and then some. Sadly, we ran up against a wall when too many people entered and we couldn't do certain things cause of it...but eh it happens you know...live and learn and get better.

all of it came from the venue fee.


$85 may seem steep but I also remember those prices being around the same for ANY FC. If anything I think its worth the money to go out there. I also think people will enjoy the 2 free meals and cheaper hotel stay. Ya nowadays it might seem weird but its something that people will enjoy cause the money is going towards things that will make it great.

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

Mother Russia?

this is the greatest post I have ever read on smashboards
thank you for the link
My father, Ivan Kryzychsky Ivanovich, approves

 

[Kal]

MeatIsMURDER, do you actually speak Russian? >_>

 

[Battlecow]

Prior FCs were subsidized by the free venue, something we no longer enjoy. The cost stayed at $75 from FC6 to FCD primarily due to the MLG sponsorship. Having lost both venue and MLG, it's sort of an 'is what it is' scenario. We'll likely lose money on this tournament, so asking us to lower the cost is basically asking us to pay for you to come

Gotcha :/

I still think you could work out some sort of separation of events, though, to make it cheaper for those of us who won't be entering everything.

Battlecow is willing to bet 200$ MM but not pay 85$ to come to FC.. lolol.

Yeah, just hilarious that I'm willing to gain $200 but unwilling to lose $85. Huh. What a strange guy this battlecow is.

Seriously, though, does the Canadian education system not teach you how numbers work? Maybe you need to tell your MMA buddies to stop hitting you in the head for a little while.

 

[Divinokage]

Gain? You are gambling your money, it's not a 100% win for you, what if you lose? You are ****ed.

 

[Battlecow]

Wait. Battlecow totally owes me 20 bucks.

Thanks for the reminder haha.

Yeah, I posted in the falcon thread where we made the bet but you must not have seen that. gimme your paypal or else I can just give it to you at FC if you're coming.

Gain? You are gambling your money, it's not a 100% win for you, what if you lose? You are ****ed.

So you really don't understand the difference between making a $200 wager that you expect to win and paying $85 for something? I need to write a strongly worded letter to your prime minister about his education policies.

 

[Divinokage]

Where do you get that I don't understand, losing money is losing money no matter the circumstance.

 

[john!]

maybe battlecow only has $200 to spend after housing, travel, etc?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I think the Gio ****** Battlecow massacre should be in the title.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

don't worry about it kage. he's just being funny and overconfident and stuff.

seeing gio win is relevant to my interests, i think.

 

[ORLY]

i stopped reading the FC stagelist thread in melee discussion

someone tell me how it ends up and i hope everything stays exactly where it is

FC da bess

 

[Juggleguy]

i stopped reading the FC stagelist thread in melee discussion

someone tell me how it ends up and i hope everything stays exactly where it is

FC da bess

I was about to make the same post, except replace 'stays exactly where it is' with 'changes back to a conservative stagelist'