MELEE-FC10R Legacy...is done!

[Bl@ckChris]

then sell some corn and hitch a ride, bro.

 

[Battlecow]

I am sorry if it ends up being outside of your budget range, but it's really not significantly more than MLG or APEX costs, and as has been pointed out multiple times, the hotel is far cheaper than both of these typically are, so overall it should come out as a positive relative to those two events.

It's $50 more than Apex for my crew. Just saying.

Are you sure you couldn't give any sort of separate entry fee for brawl/64/P:M (doubt those guys would be not entering melee lol) players?

 

[KishPrime]

Still looking at that, it'll be announced on Friday with the registration launch. It is possible that it makes sense to sell a limited number of B/C only passes, but I don't want to put the expectation of half off or anything out there.

EDIT: Because it won't be that.

 

[Froggy]

This has been discussed several times. Part of the fee goes to the venue, meals, and security. The remaining goes into the pots. As a reference, FCD's cost was $75 and that only covered Melee events. If it were made any lower, that puts the pot in serious risk of being underwhelming or even negative.

You get three days of awesome competition, entrance into at least 4 events, two meals, and discounted hotel rooms. The cost should not be an issue.

I'm still not quite getting. Isn't venue fee typically around 10$, with entry fee being around 20$. I think Apex was particularly pricey with the event costing 50$, for people who registered when the price was at it's maximum. Why is this so high? 85$ Can we pay less if we don't eat the food at the venue.

The only thing I can really see costing so much is security, and while I think that is an unnecessary cost(and something you usually unprovided at tournaments), I can't claim it's not important. I guess my point is that I just don't think tournies should be so costly, especially since smashers all ready have to pay for housing to attend these things.

 

[standardtoaster]

Kish already stated that the food goes along with the entry. The food voucher isn't optional.

 

[D. Disciple]

let's not forget that it's also going towards the discount we got on the rooms.

 

[KishPrime]

let's not forget that it's also going towards the discount we got on the rooms.

Yeah, this was part of our negotiation. :/

Sorry, guys. Just doing our best over here.

 

[Froggy]

Yeah, this was part of our negotiation. :/

Sorry, guys. Just doing our best over here.

Well can't the discount to the rooms be optional? I think I may prefer to just sleep in my car, or at a friend's house, instead of having to pay more money to enter the tournament.

And can you explain the food voucher. Can I opt out of having food at the venue, and pay less of the entree fee?

 

[D. Disciple]

Let's be real my dude. You're getting two free meals, discounted rooms. These guys coming from out of nowhere to provide us with a bigger venue with as much time to play your games before the room closes up, and you're really concern about 85 bucks?

This scene is too spoiled I tells ya.

Also I feel like you guys are neglecting that they will give you discounts on the equipment you bring. In set ups, cords and what not. I brought extension cords, set ups at FCD and they gave me a discount off the venue. So there is something to think about.

 

[KishSquared]

Well can't the discount to the rooms be optional? I think I may prefer to just sleep in my car, or at a friend's house, instead of having to pay more money to enter the tournament.

And can you explain the food voucher. Can I opt out of having food at the venue, and pay less of the entree fee?

Okay, new FC pricing system! Just like BK, have it your way!

Not staying in a hotel room - $10 off
Don't sweat (No A/C needed) - $15 off
Walking to FC - Have no need for parking spot outside - save $5
Playing Yoshi in tournament? $7 back right there
Don't drink water - $8 off
Stand to play pass (no chair required for matches) - $5 off
Hard of hearing (no reason to pay for microphone system) - $13 off
Hard of seeing (TVs not required) - $6 off
Anti-social (will not play friendlies) - $17 off

...sigh...

EDIT: I definitely have no animosity behind this post, I just tend to post sarcastic humor in response to such things. The point I'm trying to make is that we simply can't allow customization to the level you want to see. For one, we're bound by contracts with the hosting venue. For two, we'd be silly to try and manage all this. How would we ever verify that you're not staying in the venue, for example?

Like Prime said, we're doing our best. Our purpose is not to rake you over the coals with costs. FC and Apex are not apples-to-apples; the events couldn't be more different. Let's all take a step back, accept that fact, and try looking at this logistically.

 

[KishSquared]

FC-Diamond results thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109534

As someone who posted in there wisely put it, there's often this paradox of Smash attendees:

We want the best, but expect to pay the least.
We want the venue to be clean, but are unwilling to pick up after ourselves.
We want tournament to be run smoothly, but are unwilling to cooperate and listen.
We want more playing time, but are unwilling to bring TVs and setups (exception: Monk and Toast from Wisconsin)
We expect everything from our hosts, but sometimes don't give them much incentive to host.

$85 looks pretty reasonable considering everything the Kishes are doing for us, guys. At least for the Melee players. For the Brawl and Smash 64 players, perhaps not, but that's a different subject of debate that has been brought up already.

Double post, because this is very well said. Thanks

 

[Scythe]

If you dont feel as if it's worth the price of admission, then dont go.

 

[Tink]

exactly what he said....ppl keep bringing up apex...IT WAS SPONSORED....get over it.

ppl should be happy they are even running 64/brawl for you, and now your gonna ***** ://.

 

[PGH Carroll]

i just dont understand. why not make it separate? everyone wins.
melee players pay for melee.
brawl players pay for brawl
64 P:M players pay for 64 P:M.

doesnt have to be that complicated does it?

 

[Alex Strife]

Tink - Apex was not sponsored for venue only prize money/booths etc.

Also Apex 2010 had the same prices as Apex 2012.


But ya...people should be happy this tournament is happening.

 

[Oro?!]

You have 4 months to save 85$. A little over 20$ a month is such a small cost to put aside that I don't think anyone who can afford to go to tournaments in the first place would have an issue with these costs. That covers 2 meals and a bed to sleep in. What more could you ask for.

I would gladly pay way more money to chill with homies for an entire weekend playing awesome games. Just sayin...

 

[alcheato]

i just dont understand. why not make it separate? everyone wins.
melee players pay for melee.
brawl players pay for brawl
64 P:M players pay for 64 P:M.

doesnt have to be that complicated does it?

Considering the majority of the entry fee is probably covering the cost of the venue, I would imagine any discount for only entering 1 or 2 events would be minimal.

This may sound ****ish, but if a couple bucks extra is breaking the bank for some people, I think those peeps have to grow up and attend to other things in their lives before traveling across the country to play a video game. I mean, I only live like 3 hours from the venue, but if I'm hurting for money come the end of July, going to FC won't be a priority for me.

 

[Get Low]

Unless you're rich, paying close to $100 for a Melee tourney is a waste of money.

 

[PGH Carroll]

Considering the majority of the entry fee is probably covering the cost of the venue, I would imagine any discount for only entering 1 or 2 events would be minimal.

This may sound ****ish, but if a couple bucks extra is breaking the bank for some people, I think those peeps have to grow up and attend to other things in their lives before traveling across the country to play a video game. I mean, I only live like 3 hours from the venue, but if I'm hurting for money come the end of July, going to FC won't be a priority for me.

shouldnt a venue fee cover the venue? or am I just crazy? its not as if thats the way tournaments have been running for years..

i have no problem in the 50-60 dollar area for a tournament of this caliber but i dont wanna pay $85 to play brawl and 64 and games.

how much is this venue for the weekend? if 300 people come and pay the same (lets say 25 dollar venue fee) if thats not enough to cover the venue then we have a problem.

heres an idea
venue: 25 (price can go up closer to the date. its worked in the past)
melee singles/doubles per team: 20/20
brawl singles/doubles per team: 20/20
(maybe less since this is to my understanding a melee oriented tournament)
64: 10
P-M: 10

just an idea

 

[Deleted member]

Tim, I spent a good portion of this week sharing ideas with other smashboards members that I respect and testing individual characters on your stage list independently. I will openly admit that I do not like Jungle Japes due to its horizontal camping aspect. Even Sheik is too slow for that stage, but if she gets some kind of lead she can keep it. I found no real fundamental problems with the stage, and I can suggest no better alternatives, but I understand why other people dislike it as well. That said, I offer you no recommended changes on my end. Good luck.

 

[alcheato]

Unless you're rich, paying close to $100 for a Melee tourney is a waste of money.

If it was a 1-day tournament where the attendance isn't as big, I would completely agree. Considering this is a multi-day event where people are going to play several top players, see friends that they may not see too often, and (ideally) get to play tons of matches against people from other regions, I would have to politely disagree.

Although maybe everyone should get a discount for having to be in the wasteland that is Indiana for an extended period of time

Edit: @ PGH Carroll: Yeah, I kinda see where you're coming from in regards to other large tournies.

 

[Omnigamer]

The bottom line that people seem to be missing is that the FC experience is priceless. You cannot simply think of this as another tournament, let alone another National. This is an FC. This is an event that will be a highlight of your smash career, whether you're a seasoned pro, a senile 03'er, or just getting into things. I have been fortunate enough to attend all of the (open) FC tournaments so far, and I can say that they have been some of the most fun experiences I have ever had.

 

[D. Disciple]

Don't bring in 03'er or any kind of 'er in this scene damn it!

I've been trying my best not to say it around smashers.

 

[Omnigamer]

I know we get a bad rap, but you have to face it eventually! Someday you, too, will be viewed the same as an 03'er.

 

[D. Disciple]

I'm an 05'er close enough!

 

[KishSquared]

heres an idea
venue: 25 (price can go up closer to the date. its worked in the past)
melee singles/doubles per team: 20/20
brawl singles/doubles per team: 20/20
(maybe less since this is to my understanding a melee oriented tournament)
64: 10
P-M: 10

Just to be clear: you're asking us to charge people who want to play in more events $115+ so people who want to play in less events can pay $65.

This idea isn't 'wrong', but neither is the way we're doing it. Naturally, people who want to play in less events will prefer your idea, and people who want to play in more events will prefer ours. Our decision is to favor the people who want to play in more events because we're hosting FC. People who want to travel to play a single side event will pay a premium.

My question is this - if you're coming to play a single side event, is FC really the right tournament to do that? Why wouldn't you go to a tournament down the street and save mega million$?

Heck, I'll answer that for you. Because it's in a premium facility, with hundreds of other Smashers, with dedicated TVs, and (ahem) elite hosts managing a sophisticated tournament. Otherwise, why are you coming? Why come to a Melee-focused event? There's no other reason.

Now, having said all that, I'm sure we could try to convince you until we're blue in the face, and some of you will never look past the price tag. If it's too expensive for you to come, our hearts go out to you, and we'll hope to meet you when you're rich. But if you're not coming because it's $20 too expensive, and you're not willing to mow a yard or sell a couple old Wii/Xbox games on eBay... well, I'm really not sure what more we can do.

FC will be amazing. It will be worth your money to attend. We can at least promise you that.

 

[PGH Carroll]

LOL@ so many "oh..its only $20!"
by that thinking just charge $105 then. its only twenty bucks! man save up!

...

why charge premium to the people who wanna just play melee at a melee national?
i dont get the logic behind that. and wouldnt it make sense if you wanna enter everything you pay more? if your focus is the players that play multiple events then thats fine, i think it just makes the tourney harder to run.

i dont wanna come off as "Carroll the FC hater" but everything about this tourney is pretty far from the norm.. from the rules and stages to the prices.

in a premium facility, with hundreds of other Smashers, with dedicated TVs, and (ahem) elite hosts managing a sophisticated tournament.

like the pounds and roms and apexs and all the other nationals ive been to? i know this is FC and ive heard nothing but good things about the series, but the way you guys say that^ its like we've never been to a big tourney with alot of setups and big names.

idk man, im just fighting to understand the logic that is behind all this.
i really hope i can still make it, i know we (pittsburgh) were all looking forward to it.. but that "20 dollars" is enough to be an issue as CRAZY as it may sound.

apparently i need to move to IL where money grows on trees

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The side tournaments are like dodgeball. You don't come to the tournament for them, but knowing they are there makes it so much more epic. I would spend $85 for FC just for melee. Considering the increase in price compared to other nationals (which has generally been $65-75) directly goes back into your pocket by halving the cost of a hotel room, I think its worth it.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

At what times do you serve the food? Like, a lunch and a dinner thing?

 

[Metà]

lol how are people still complaining about the price? for how much you get off the hotel, it all evens out. go and calculate how much money it cost you to go to your last OOS national, and compare it to what this is gonna cost. chances are they are pretty damn close, if not less for FC

honestly, not coming because of the stage list is more legit than than because of the venue fee. seriously.

 

[yoshq]

FC-Diamond results thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109534

As someone who posted in there wisely put it, there's often this paradox of Smash attendees:

We want the best, but expect to pay the least.
We want the venue to be clean, but are unwilling to pick up after ourselves.
We want tournament to be run smoothly, but are unwilling to cooperate and listen.
We want more playing time, but are unwilling to bring TVs and setups (exception: Monk and Toast from Wisconsin)
We expect everything from our hosts, but sometimes don't give them much incentive to host.

$85 looks pretty reasonable considering everything the Kishes are doing for us, guys. At least for the Melee players. For the Brawl and Smash 64 players, perhaps not, but that's a different subject of debate that has been brought up already.

A copious amount of true.

 

[PEEF!]

Some people will have local housing (not the Hotel) so they will be footing the bill for something they won't be using.

I have another question as well, and I hope the Kishes will be excited to answer it:
What Carroll was getting at earlier is that since the last FC's, a huge percentage of the smash population has been to a ROM or a Genesis or a Pound, etc so we know what it is like. How does FC attempt to go above and beyond this (not counting a couple specific problems with those tournaments)? The experience of being around hundreds of smashers with an on-time bracket and friendlies available is something that might have been rare in the FC days, but now it happens every few months.

I am truly genuinely interested, and I hope this will be seen how I intend it, not as skepticism but as an opportunity by the Kishes to be able to brag about what will make this tournament better than other nationals.

 

[KishPrime]

Some people will have local housing (not the Hotel) so they will be footing the bill for something they won't be using.

I have another question as well, and I hope the Kishes will be excited to answer it:
What Carroll was getting at earlier is that since the last FC's, a huge percentage of the smash population has been to a ROM or a Genesis or a Pound, etc so we know what it is like. How does FC attempt to go above and beyond this (not counting a couple specific problems with those tournaments)? The experience of being around hundreds of smashers with an on-time bracket and friendlies available is something that might have been rare in the FC days, but now it happens every few months.

I am truly genuinely interested, and I hope this will be seen how I intend it, not as skepticism but as an opportunity by the Kishes to be able to brag about what will make this tournament better than other nationals.

While Squared already talked about some of this, FC's mission comes down to getting the community together in a single venue to share in good times and good fun. To go along with that, we run a variety of tournaments, and run a competitive pools system that makes sense, ensure a large number of tournament matches to players of all levels, run unique events that have never been done before, give a prize pool substantial enough to reward winners, and on top of all of that, leave massive time for friendlies.

Everything about the tournament is oriented around finding a way to make everyone at the event see and experience that they are a part of the larger community, have a great time, and ultimately, feel that they've gotten their money's worth. And if you look at the Diamond responses, I feel confident that we've achieved that every time we've tried.

This FC is going to do all of that as well. If there's another, cheaper tournament happening a few months down the road that will do the same thing better, I suggest you attend that, as that would be the logical thing to do. We'll continue to operate this tournament so as to bring you the best event that we can, while still responding to feedback when we are able.

 

[KishPrime]

At what times do you serve the food? Like, a lunch and a dinner thing?

The meals will be tied into the events we are planning so as to allow everyone a chance to stay in the venue at that time.

 

[Yazz]

For me, never being to a national such as apex or genesis. am really looking forward to this. even though im not staying at the hotel, im still more than willing to pay the 85 bucks. ive waited for a national close enough to me for a long long time, and i already know months ahead of time that this is going to be amazing. yeah, the stage list is a bit screwey but thats okay. as long as everyones having a good time, thats all that matters am i right?

 

[KishSquared]

Some people have a very strict standard for traveling to tournaments. Money is precious, and for most people this isn't a local affair, so it will be an expensive trip even before the entry fee. We understand and respect that, which is why we're listening and working on logistics.

At the end of the day, we're going to make the best offer we can. People can vote with their attendance as to whether we made a good offer.

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

you guys are hype killers

 

[Violence]

I think the people who are complaining are the regional players who would most likely sleep in someone's house and pay for the venue fee and melee singles.

The cost for these players from other tournaments:

Apex 2012: 30 + 15 + Food + Travel (+ 10 for doubles)

Genesis II: 20 + 25 + Food + Travel (+ 20 for doubles)

ROM IV(2 Day event): 20 + 20 (+ 10 for doubles)

Impulse(2 Day event): 20 + 20 ( + 10 for doubles)

Average for a singles player: $42.50

Average for a singles and doubles player: $55.00

FC-Legacy Singles player: Paying approx $42.50 above the average.

FC-Legacy Singles and Doubles player: Paying approx 30 dollars above the average.

The benefit here is that the players are receiving two meals, making this basically smashers paying 15-20 dollars per meal, most likely quite a bit more expensive than they're used to.

They can bring equipment, and that can reduce costs by 5-15 dollars, it seems, bringing costs down a bit, but I can imagine being in their shoes and having this tournament be out of their price range. The price tag is a bit daunting for your average regional smasher, after all.

I would recommend finding some way to make things more affordable, as this section of the community will really be the meat and potatoes of your attendance. I know it's frustrating, but it's likely to affect your attendance significantly, I'd say.


But as I am an out of region player, $85 to enter all events, free meals, and discounted hotel fee is well worth it for me. I am not complaining, I'm just trying to see it from the frugal regional player viewpoint.

 

[KishPrime]

We certainly appreciate the feedback, but at this time, there is simply no way to change it, so I won't get into a numbers/comparison game, even though I'll still argue that at the end of the day it's just as good of a deal as MLG/Evo/APEX. The number picks itself, as it were. If there was a place to cut, we would do so. And as you say, it's a fairly good deal for out-of-region players coming to a national. If anything, the regional player is paying to not have to cover the cost of traveling further to a national.

I'm proud of the content that we'll deliver and 100% confident that the value is in the product. As to whether or not you want to trust that, it's your decision, but we have a very strong track record of delivering.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

guys

guys

it's cool. fc is going to be tight as **** even if the world were ending. kishes are like the nba of smash tournaments.

i need to start donating plasma asap to have enough money for this.