i have to agree that its in G&W's favor, G&W can sweet spot the edge and avoid pichu's on stage edgeguards, however if he messes up and eats a fsmash he's dead. But we're assuming people don't mess up here. Pichu in general doesn't have anything going for him approach wise outside of his nair, G&W wavedash combined with his utilt dtilt fsmash ftilt and even usmash can counter this easily. Hell I bet even dsmash will beat it out if timed right.
While pichu has a pretty effing sweet recovery, my friend is really good at putting G&W's nair (PARACHUTE LOLZ) in the way of me grabbing the ledge or going on stage. I admit my pichu isn't sick or anything so if anyone who has more experience with his or pikachu's up b and using their trajectory says you can get around it then i'd take their word personally.
On stages with platforms, G&W can counter any platform trixies with a nair or utilt.
One thing that is in pichu's favor is that his fsmash is so low to the ground because it hits multiple times / is electrical, it easily eats away at G&W's shield and can a lot of times poke through easily for the last hit. Pretty sure G&W can just angle his shield down and shield DI away though so I don't think its too great of an asset. But unless he gets out of it it'll take a huge chunk of his shield away and leaves pichu safe from retaliation due to the electrical shieldstun
All in all though, it's still one of my favorite match ups, being the pichu player.
Sheik on spacies, i agree its even actually. For fox at least ->
While they both can edge guard each other rather easily, if for some reason sheik gets the edge, fox can't really push. Sometimes you'll hit up-b spammers at the edge with a tilt or smash when they mess up their timing but it's never guaranteed and if you whiff you get smacked / sheik is back on the stage.
Where if fox for some reason grabs the edge, he doesn't have a way to abuse invincibility frames to force the opponent to let him get back on the stage. Constant ledge drops -> regrab can be counter with needles, firefox / illusion ledgestalls the same. I don't have a really really solid sheik to play and im not saying its impossible for fox to get from the ledge to the stage only that he can't force a stalemate till his opponent just lets him back on.
I think as far as camping goes, they're pretty even too. Both are dangerous on the edge, sheik slightly more so.. platforms probably go to sheik also, but fox isn't crippled like some characters against her platform camping. I think his lasers are better for racking up damage though, needles are pretty easy to avoid if you're being aware of the threat.
When you boil down to theory, it looks like its in sheiks favor slightly, but fox has enough speed to play safe just outside of her range or safely pressure her to bait out something for him to punish. It's pretty ambiguous match up from what i've experienced, so i like to call it even.
do falco after next time i play edit: i probably wont
- f-smash is pretty bad because of SDI. F-air is better anyway (if G&W actually shields. All decent G&W players will spam moves all the time, because his moves stick out forever and end pretty quickly when the move retracts [Dunno if it's IASA frames or something, because I don't play G&W very often, but I don't think it is]).
- G&W's n-air is pretty gay.
- When sheik is stalling with up-b, then grab the edge. She gets forced to go onstage, then you punish her lag. If you think she's gonna f-air/u-air, then b-air her after she whiffs.
- yeah, needles are easy to avoid. Fox's platform movement is also amazing. Though no one will agree with me, I personally think that fox benefits more than sheik from the platforms. Sheik players seem to think that FD is bad for them, but I think it's the players, not the matchup. Fox gets hurt more than sheik does without the platforms. Basically for these reasons:
- fox can't edge-cancel to escape bad combos
- less movement/ways to approach
- less combos (no tech chase off platforms, whereas fox will hit the ground anyway when sheik wants to do a platform combo, resulting in a free tech chase either way).
- There's more. Edit later.
- fox can ledge WD to get on the stage for free vs every character (A perfect one gives you 15 frames of invincibility. So there is a lot of room for error). Sheik can do it too.
id have to say sheik vs fox is in foxs favor also. i mean sheik has a difficult time geting combos going until around 40%, but of course she can easily get fox there, but fox has too many easy combos (drill->shine->grab-> u throw->combo) they can always DI the drill but fox can just pressure well with lasers and has plenty of options when the sheik uses up and b and goes to the stage. i think the sheik can definitely take it tho. i remember there was an old match between KDJ and Ken, and KDJ said he didnt really like the matchup, because he was always freestyling to get hits. they both have really good movement and can both kill each other pretty easily, so i can understand why some argue that its even. its a great match over all to watch and play on either side
does fox's combos lead to 0-death every time? no. If they DI badly multiple times, or decide not to CC your ***, then sure.
LOL sheik with a difficult time getting combos on fox. Sheik can 0-death tech chase solely off of reaction (there is a huge window of time for her to tech chase). The fox can stop the combo by going off the stage (assuming that they didn't decide to d-smash you off the stage), but then her edgeguarding is so free on fox. Fox can choose how he dies.....that's nice I guess.
But yeah, I do agree that it is entertaining to watch the matchup.
Yea KK thinks fox has a slight advantage overall lol xD
I knew it! That guy keeps telling me that he thinks it's even.
Falco is debatable. But its at the worst even or in Fox's favor.
Marth > Fox? What are you smoking dude?
Sheik? Last time I checked Fox can run circles around her, out prioritize her and effectively camp against her on larger stages. In what way does Sheik have the advantage?
out-prioritize sheik? wtf.......
Maybe when she's in the air I guess.
But anyways, I love watching KK play vs other foxes and 0-death them off of a single hit. Maybe you'll learn why the matchup doesn't get better than even after playing him.
Marth is my opinion because of his range, grabs , CC, easy edge guards and various other things.
The camping is based on who's winning in the match, sheik can camp fox on the ledge with shino stall with the lead (jman amsah...) so i think that cancels eachother out and is not a valid point
sheik i wouldn't expect you to understand because no one plays sheik at her full potential
Ledgestalling doesn't work. You can take the edge. Jman handled it really poorly, after the SD.
