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- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
- Status
BunBun
Smash Master
Fox can nair falcon.
Fox can also waveshine falcon anywhere he wants.
Shine spike is amazing.
Falcon has awesome combos, but Fox gets to control the matchup.
Fox can also waveshine falcon anywhere he wants.
Shine spike is amazing.
Falcon has awesome combos, but Fox gets to control the matchup.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Doc King is a troll or an idiot don't take him seriously.
If he's saying Falcon Fox is 55/45 for Falcon then just be like "awww that's cute" and move on.
If he's saying Falcon Fox is 55/45 for Falcon then just be like "awww that's cute" and move on.
Fortress | Sveet
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actually, falcon can cover a ton of options from the center of the stage.
If fox doesn't DI away uthrow or dthrow will combo stronger because falcon wont have to move initially.
If fox DIs away but can't tech away because of the edge, its even worse.
Not to mention when all tech options are available falcon can do a lot of damage simply off reaction.
Also, a well timed running weak knee into uair can cover fox's sideb and upb at the same time.
(playing devils advocate)
If fox doesn't DI away uthrow or dthrow will combo stronger because falcon wont have to move initially.
If fox DIs away but can't tech away because of the edge, its even worse.
Not to mention when all tech options are available falcon can do a lot of damage simply off reaction.
Also, a well timed running weak knee into uair can cover fox's sideb and upb at the same time.
(playing devils advocate)
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
lol why? not saying your points are invalid only, we all know the outcome lol. its not in falcons favor at all haha.
@kk-im actually surprised people respond to doc king still. clearly a troll.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
lawl if u say so
Fortress | Sveet
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because i feel the reasoning some people are using is invalid.
Falcon has the slight edge in terms of punishment with fox approaching equal to falcon's amount of punishment at the highest levels.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
sure. the punishments are equal, but fox wins because of other things. what's the big deal?
BunBun
Smash Master
Rhan: If you're going to use that avatar, I'm going to need you to post in perfect symmetry.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i think its entirely the other way around.
Fox has the heavy punish advantage at anything but top level, where his waveshines, upsmashes, gimps, and bair are fox 101.
Falcon only starts to approach his punish competence when at the very very top level where the falcon can kill off of one grab after making 2-3 strong reads.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I don't think thats the very top level of falcon. there are plenty of high level falcons that have that ability.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
well regardless, I stand by the fact that fox definitely has the punishment advantage in the matchup.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
You guys are blowing this outta proportion. Fox and Falcon both have the capacity to take a stock from a small mistake.
Fox has to do more work, but his work is easier.
Falcon only needs to get a few reads, but he has (EDIT: LESS) room for error.
Regardless, they both can take a stock, in different ways. If you want to argue the match up between them, talk about movesets, projectiles, recovery, stage control, approaches, because they aren't virtually even in all those respects, where their punishment game has the potential to be even, and when dealing with high level players it's more likely that it becomes that way.
Fox has to do more work, but his work is easier.
Falcon only needs to get a few reads, but he has (EDIT: LESS) room for error.
Regardless, they both can take a stock, in different ways. If you want to argue the match up between them, talk about movesets, projectiles, recovery, stage control, approaches, because they aren't virtually even in all those respects, where their punishment game has the potential to be even, and when dealing with high level players it's more likely that it becomes that way.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
how does fox do more work? his punishes are so textbook and basic.
having crap defense, and requiring to basically straight up guess on his punishes sounds like a much harder job for falcon just to keep up.
having crap defense, and requiring to basically straight up guess on his punishes sounds like a much harder job for falcon just to keep up.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
More work as in, fox usually chases falcon longer and lands more hits in (odds are if fox and falcon are at the same percent, fox landed more hits), but like i said, it's easier work. So, in a literal sense, more work, not harder work.
though i guess work is a quantitative value in physics, but hopefully you get my point despite my lacking English
though i guess work is a quantitative value in physics, but hopefully you get my point despite my lacking English
Merkuri
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,860
Well Falcon's punishes are a lot easier to get. Falcon can knee you if you make a mistake from the other side of the screen. The best Fox could do is shoot lasers.
otg
Smash Master
Having to work more == harder.
BunBun
Smash Master
DippinDots, when do I get to play you again?
DippnDots
Feral Youth
when I win the lottery and can travel again =[
and otg, in physics, yes. What I mean is, fox has to do MORE chasing, MORE attacks, to 0-death someone without a gimp. Falcon only needs a handful of hits, however it's harder for falcon to get those hits, so in the long run, the amount of work they both do becomes relatively the same.
It's similar to how ganon works, falco can combo you 0-60 like it's nothing, and that is roughly 8 hits, where ganon only needs to land 4 hits to get someone to 60, 3 if you get the beastly double hit usmash
and otg, in physics, yes. What I mean is, fox has to do MORE chasing, MORE attacks, to 0-death someone without a gimp. Falcon only needs a handful of hits, however it's harder for falcon to get those hits, so in the long run, the amount of work they both do becomes relatively the same.
It's similar to how ganon works, falco can combo you 0-60 like it's nothing, and that is roughly 8 hits, where ganon only needs to land 4 hits to get someone to 60, 3 if you get the beastly double hit usmash
Rappster
Smash Ace
Why Some People sound Dumb on the internet.
you think you know what you're talking about because you don't know how much you don't know about.
We appreciate your opinions, but they're fairly useless.
forget all your opinions on smash.
read about/watch/play smash until you realize you don't know **** about how to play smash well.
that is the beginning of learning.
keep watching/reading about/playing smash and your opinions will become more and more accurate.
come back and start posting.
ps: this is applicable to people other than Doc King as well, but i don't wanna name names.
Dunning-Kruger effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y
you think you know what you're talking about because you don't know how much you don't know about.
We appreciate your opinions, but they're fairly useless.
forget all your opinions on smash.
read about/watch/play smash until you realize you don't know **** about how to play smash well.
that is the beginning of learning.
keep watching/reading about/playing smash and your opinions will become more and more accurate.
come back and start posting.
ps: this is applicable to people other than Doc King as well, but i don't wanna name names.
BunBun
Smash Master
Lol dippin, it's been a year to the week since that tourney in your apartment xD
DippnDots
Feral Youth
oh wow you're right. I'm living somewhere else now though, and it's tiny tiny tiny. Cozy tho.
Fortress | Sveet
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*claps *
Laijin
Smash Hero
lol @ fox v Kirby.
Its literally the only 100-0 match up in the game that I can think of
Its literally the only 100-0 match up in the game that I can think of
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
I know how to play Smash, I Brawled KingZant a lot and ended up winning most of the matches against him. I know my Melee knowledge might be kind of poor, but I know how to play smash bros. properly.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
^^^ hahahahahahahahaahaha
its funny cuz he's so sincere...im in tears of laughter right now
its funny cuz he's so sincere...im in tears of laughter right now
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Who's that? =p
DippnDots
Feral Youth
let's move on, anyone who isn't stupid knows falcon vs fox is not in falcon's favor. Anyone feel like discussing Peach vs Young Link? Get d20 in here
Or Sheik vs Doc/falcon/fox/falco/marth
Or G&W vs pichu
Or Sheik vs Doc/falcon/fox/falco/marth
Or G&W vs pichu
A Pimp Named Slickback
Smash Lord
sheik vs. doc is stupid for doc
it's soooooo bad
the chaingrab and edgeguard is about all doc has
and sheik ***** doc onstage and way harder offstage
65-35 or 70-30 probably
it's soooooo bad
the chaingrab and edgeguard is about all doc has
and sheik ***** doc onstage and way harder offstage
65-35 or 70-30 probably
Violence
Smash Lord
vids pl0x.
unknown522
Some guy
how is this even possible?
close, but you exaggerate.
chaingrab?
which way are you DIing?
But yeah, the matchup is that bad, but not for that reason.
yep.
G&W vs pichu is annoying. His move spam makes it a real ***** to approach. He also avoids some of pichu's good combos because of his weight. A lot of his moves also kill pichu pretty fast, while having a lot of range on them.
60-40 or 65-35. Something like that.
i've been over sheik vs spacies a bunch of times. IMO, they're even. Spacies hit her easier, because she has to commit to more, but she can do more damage than they can off a single hit. Her CC is also better than theirs.
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
unknown522
Some guy
Wrong game son.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Doc King
Brawl =/= Melee
Your Melee knowledge is poor.
If you win the majority of your Brawl matches that's fabulous but doesn't mean anything about your Melee opinion. We don't ask like Brood or Ally for their input on matchup at high level in Melee and we don't expect the Brawl community to ask Amsah or Cactuar about what they think of matchups in high level Brawl.
They're different games.
Brawl =/= Melee
Your Melee knowledge is poor.
If you win the majority of your Brawl matches that's fabulous but doesn't mean anything about your Melee opinion. We don't ask like Brood or Ally for their input on matchup at high level in Melee and we don't expect the Brawl community to ask Amsah or Cactuar about what they think of matchups in high level Brawl.
They're different games.
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