Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lol at you saying Fox can shield if they try to hit you. That is exactly what the Sheik wants so she can back throwto death the fox.

how does one grab from the edge? that would require them to approach fox's shield with either a ledgehop or standup.

Shining isn't nearly as scary as a back throw

disagree. 1 hit move that ends the stock vs a edge guard attempt with less probability for stock ending.

ledge hogging is probably the Fox's safest bet but to do that he has to risk coming to ledge which may very well be his death

how so? unless the fox makes a mistake or does something stupid, he is at no risk.

Read the argument dude. We were saying if Sheik gets the lead then the Lasers won't force her to approach.

There was no argument. U posted a video and said a 1 liner which made no sense. Not to mention its been said dozens of times that jman made a lot of mistakes in that match, but you still use it as a crutch for ur "argument"

 

[MarsFool!]

Lucky had 0 patience that's why he got wrecked. All he had to do was approach sheik wait for her to do any move (minus jab which is 2 frames and hard to react to) then bam, free shine. Notice when lucky hesitated he immediately shifted the match control. Seriously, fox only needs one correct guess when you're that close to the ledge. The same goes for marth fox.

 

[Merkuri]

how does one grab from the edge? that would require them to approach fox's shield with either a ledgehop or standup.

You realize that the ledge and edge and are not the same thing right?

disagree. 1 hit move that ends the stock vs a edge guard attempt with less probability for stock ending.

The shine doesn't end the stock. For a pro in this match up I think it's easier to kill of the back throw than the shine. If I remember correctly in Jman vs Amsah set Jman didn't shine gimp him even once. In fact you can DI the shine so you grab the ledge afterwards, what are you talking about?

how so? unless the fox makes a mistake or does something stupid, he is at no risk.

Nah that's just you being dumb. I think I've illustrated enough how dangerous the back throw is.

There was no argument. U posted a video and said a 1 liner which made no sense. Not to mention its been said dozens of times that jman made a lot of mistakes in that match, but you still use it as a crutch for ur "argument"

I hate arguing with people like you. I am just not convinced you're as idiocit as you present yourself to be, I think you're just feinting ignorance to help you argument.

So if sheik gets any lead at all, you're convinced she can stall out for the next 8 minutes (or however much time is left) without being edgehogged?

I'm sorry, I find that difficult to believe.

The argument started right here you fool.

 

[MarsFool!]

I like when people insult each other about video games xD

 

[rhan]

Videogames are srs bidness.

You should see the Halo/Tekken community.

 

[Druggedfox]

Merkuri... my statement about sheik camping has absolutely 0 to do with fox laser camping..........

 

[rhan]

It actually has everything to do with it.






We are just blind to such logic.

 

[Merkuri]

It actually has everything to do with it.






We are just blind to such logic.

This..........

 

[idea]

i hear there's one game community where people have actually died from fights and such. i forget which one...that probably would have been good to make a mental note of...

then there are those people who MM for thousands of dollars. you know how many sandwiches you could get for $3000? that's way better than maybe winning a fighting game money match. sandwiches for years and years. no risk, just sandwiches.

 

[Ministry]

best post you've made kyle

 

[KAOSTAR]

Its marvel Baby!!! @ least the 3k mms and ****.

 

[Laijin]

I remember the money match for 50k.
MvC2.
The most ridiculous **** I have ever heard of
http://shoryuken.com/content/dogface-show-returns-50-k-money-match-974/

 

[rhan]

If you have 50K... wtf you playing videogames for...?

 

[BigWenz]

If you have 50K... wtf you playing videogames for...?

for fun? its a hobby? i dont see how having money means u cant enjoy something as simple as video games

 

[rhan]

Prostitutes are more fun.

 

[BigWenz]

Prostitutes are more fun.

not when they have teh herpes lol plus thats only legal in nevada and id assume if ud have 50k to blow on a game ud really rather stay out of jail so u can enjoy da rest of ur cash

 

[idea]

show up to the tourney in a personal jet.

walk in the door like "I BROUGHT 200 SETUPS. WHERE YOU AT?!"

 

[t3h Icy]

Updated:

Falcon 40:60 Sheik, Mario 45:55 Falco, Mario 45:55 Falcon, Mario 40:60 Ganon, Mario 35:65 Peach, Mewtwo 40:60 Falco, Mewtwo 25:75 Jigglypuff, Mewtwo 35:65 Marth, Mewtwo 30:70 Peach, Mewtwo 40:60 Sheik

I also put up the older chart so that we have a completed reference for anyone new/interested with match-ups, though they may not be 100% correct. We're not continuing it though, it's just as a reference.

EDIT: I'll also make a prettier version of the old chart when I can.

 

[Rappster]

Basically laser camping doesn't force the Sheik to approach anymore if the Sheik is smart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI_hGcWjTKA

lol.
cause being a stock down isn't a reason to not camp. ever.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I have magical powers.

Just an fyi.

Also prostitutes are only fun on the condition that they can also play smash after, before, or during the naughty bits (preference thing).

 

[x After Dawn x]

merkuri has the worst arguments of all time

OF ALL TIME

 

[JPOBS]

Updated:
Mario 45:55 Falco, Mewtwo 40:60 Falco

really surprised by these numbers

 

[unknown522]

i hear there's one game community where people have actually died from fights and such. i forget which one...that probably would have been good to make a mental note of...

then there are those people who MM for thousands of dollars. you know how many sandwiches you could get for $3000? that's way better than maybe winning a fighting game money match. sandwiches for years and years. no risk, just sandwiches.

you're thinking of the tekken community, where someone got shot.

 

[unknown522]

Sorry for double post. It slipped my mind.

Updated:

Mario 45:55 Falco, Mario 45:55 Falcon, Mewtwo 40:60 Sheik

woah, woah woah. I wasn't here for the debates about these, but these matchups are not that close.

Mario v Falco: Falco just outclasses mario in every way. Better projectile, has pressure, better anti-pressure, better combos, better edgeguarding, better priority, and better moves in general. The only upside mario has, is that he can CG falco on some stages. Still, it is ridiculously hard to even land a grab on falco. Mario's crappy combos don't help him either. CC also ***** the **** out of mario, because most of his moves are either low-ranged, or slow, or even both. Mario's cape is also too slow to stop falco from spamming lasers.

Mario v Falcon: I used to think it was close, but the lack of range really hurts mario. A good falco will put mario above him, then spam u-air all day, not letting him get down. Falcon's combos are overall better, and it's really easy for falcon to land hits, because of his overwhelming speed. The knee also sending on an amazing angle, can setup free edgeguards on mario at pretty early percents. Mario's recovery sucks, just like falcon's, so there is a way to cover every option with both characters, because of how limited their recoveries are.

Sheik v M2: Sheik's combos, priority, and fast kill potential on M2 wrecks him pretty bad. Due to his terrible weight/fall speed, he gets wrecked bad by sheik's combos.

 

[KAOSTAR]

really surprised by these numbers

yea falco ***** mario lmao

 

[JPOBS]

yea mario ***** falco lol

cant..tell..if..serious...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Mewtwo is too floaty for Sheik to do much at all to him with combos.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Mewtwo is too floaty for Sheik to do much at all to him with combos.

basically just apply my MU write up wayyy back when and have taj do it.

I stand by his 40-60 interpretation.

sheik has to fight mewtwo head up, no cg and fair must kill by percent or m2 just recovers.

mewtwo just about lives to 120-130 on the guaruntee. then you can grab and uair off the top. thats optimal. living to 150 isn't uncommon.

m2 can tech chase off throw. sheik who is a master chaser doesn't have thai luxury.

cg, gimps, tech chasing, long auto combos are all taken away from her. now she isn't so scary anymore.

m2 fall speed *****, his weight sucks in terms of kill moves.

sheik only gets d throw into fair for the most part...but its still guarunteed.

 

[unknown522]

can't you combo d-throw -> u-air?

 

[KAOSTAR]

can't you combo d-throw -> u-air?

not until 120-130. thats the optimal kill lol

 

[Cosmo!]

m2 4:6 falco? DrPP vs Taj made that matchup look completely hopeless

 

[otg]

man this chart is starting to suck

actually i take it back.

it's been sucking

 

[Taj278]

There were a lot of things going on behind the scenes in the first match. What is important in the assessment of the match-up is what both characters are actually doing in the match-up. I'm basing these numbers on the years of experience I have in actually playing M2 vs. great Falco players from... everywhere.

Matches vary a lot in Melee, Dr.PP being better than me and outplaying me will of course make the match-up look hopeless. See matches of M2K vs. Fox, the general consensus is still that the match-up is even despite M2K's dominance of spacies.

Assuming there aren't personal errors in control, Falco generally has to work in order to actually kill Mewtwo, despite having stage control for most of the match.

I hope that makes sense. I can go into more detail if you want.

 

[KirbyKaze]

can't you combo d-throw -> u-air?

at 130

with d-throw

if he di away you can't regrab

if he di away from f-tilt you can't do mixups and expect to hit him with a follow like vs normal floaties because mewtwo has better combo escape than peach/luigi/samus and more aerial mobility than all three combined which is dumb but whatever i guess mewtwo rolled a good aerial mobility modifier when they were making stats

if you fair combo ends unless you get garbage like d-throw fair needle grab or some **** that doesn't work but sometimes does if they're like "whoa what is that" and have never seen it before

if you nair combo ends

dash attack doesn't link

u-smash doesn't link

if he doesn't di away you can do whatever the hell you want and then some but idk why he'd ever let you do that to him

dash attack combos are like the same as they are vs peach only he can teleport out of some of them and he can drift further away because of his aerial mobility

 

[KAOSTAR]

icy-that list was compete for m2 MUs. I only marked the changes from my list to the second one.

@kells-you should get on those doc MUs. or I guess you could continue complaining.

@KK-yea that sums it up. m2 always di's away the throw and sdi the fair. that a "we livin" till like 130 lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think it's 60:40 but I haven't fought Taj so it's like whatever.

I just know what works against him.

And for him, I suppose. But I can't really know what it's like when he puts it all together since only one player does that.

 

[Divinokage]

I don't think it's 60:40 but I haven't fought Taj so it's like whatever.

I just know what works against him.

And for him, I suppose. But I can't really know what it's like when he puts it all together since only one player does that.

You just have to get under his skin and punch him. =P At least.. that's what I remember in the past at Apex. When I fought Taj, it truly felt like a battle.. but with enough pressure looks like the beast is still vulnerable in someways. =P In my mind at least, I was swinging that sword non-stop. The other battle of smash is freaking epic, just rethinking about battles like this.. makes me want more. The mind is a powerful tool, I love imagination.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I always pick Mage, though.

 

[Divinokage]

I always pick Mage, though.

The key is to dodge all projectiles and keep charging forward. =P

 

[t3h Icy]

man this chart is starting to suck

actually i take it back.

it's been sucking

That's why I put the older version up since this style isn't turning out exactly as I'd have hoped.