Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Mokumo]

sheik vs game and watch looks pretty bad too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yr8_Qe7Rc

 

[KAOSTAR]

sheik vs x bad character is the worse.

I will say the old Mu chart had m2 marth as the very worst. that isn't true tho.

 

[BunBun]

It's dthrow at almost any percent. Don't dthrow jiggs, samus, peach, luigi or yoshi.



Kirby can shield approach on marth's fair and usually get a grab out of it. It's not even particularily difficult.

The worst thing for Kirby that marth does is spacing Nair, dtilt, and being grab happy. If I shield needlessly at all, it usually ends up with me getting grabbed.
It's one of those matches that is on the edge of >> leaning to >>>. Same with jiggs, but she's a bit easier thanks to the ability to set up a uair KO without the need for platform techchase.


@DJN: Samus-pichu is terrible. She can cc everything into attacks, an if she gets a grab, it's a stock. You quit life.

 

[KAOSTAR]

so kirby>> marth is what you are saying?

what does kirby do other than this jab to keep it from being >>>?

 

[Cactuarz]

Sheik vs G&W is a terrible matchup, but NoJ plays oldschool, and according to magus sheik's chaingrab lasts from 0-3 or 0-7 (port priority dependant... whooooooooooo)

the trick is DON'T DI i think. definately don't DI left or right =p

This matchups is really hard though =s

 

[BunBun]

so kirby>> marth is what you are saying?

what does kirby do other than this jab to keep it from being >>>?

Grab and ducking ability are key.


It might honestly be >>>, but when I think about Kirby vs fox, falcon or doc, it doesn't seem as bad.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm 99.9% sure that a smart Marth will **** Kirby and is an unwinnable matchup. He's significantly better than Kirby at everything that Kirby relies on to win (in this case, it's ground poking) and if Kirby jumps then Marth can spam Fair, U-tilt, and other moves and get a huge air combo that Kirby can't come down from because of his nonexistent aerial mobility. Shield grabbing Marth fails because if Kirby's grounded he should be dash dancing, D-tilting, or waiting. And, on that note, even if you do hit a grab, you don't even get a follow most of the time.

I don't think Doc Kirby is as bad as Marth Kirby. At least Doc doesn't have a big sword. I understand that Doc kills Kirby efficiently because of D-throw Fair, but I find the kill power disparity doesn't really matter if Kirby can never hit Marth. And Kirby can never come down from a Marth combo because of big sword and Marth being much faster than him, so Marth can often kill him like that anyway.

Kirby has the worst parts of being a floaty and none of the good parts.

 

[Nintendude]

I still don't really get how Kirby is better than Pichu. At least Pichu has speed, recovery, and a decent amount of power. He just seems a lot more versatile and can take advantage of his openings a lot better.

 

[Tero.]

I think Pichu is better than Kirby and Ness.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I still don't really get how Kirby is better than Pichu. At least Pichu has speed, recovery, and a decent amount of power. He just seems a lot more versatile and can take advantage of his openings a lot better.

it has alot to do with the fact that he's unreasonably easy to chain grab and if he ever has to tech you can say goodbye to your stock lol. also when your only usable move is Nair you get really predictable. Sheild > pichu lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

Pichu's so versatile he only has one move.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Pichu gets ***** by his opponent's shield and he gets ***** by his own shield.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Even Ness can beat Pichu's Nair and **** with U-tilt.

Like, come on.

It's Ness.

Seriously.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Dayum. So rude.

I didn't mean to be rude. I just say quit life alot lol.

@DJN: Samus-pichu is terrible. She can cc everything into attacks, an if she gets a grab, it's a stock. You quit life.

It's obvious Samus has the clear advantage over Pichu and Samus will try to crouch cancel mad attacks that Pichu will throw out. That doesn't mean its a terrible matchup. Crouch canceling and some grabs isn't gonna fully shut down Pichu. I'll fight any Samus with my Pichu.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

IHSB I<3SB IHaveSpaceBalls VirusIndigoMage IHateSmashBrothers

 

[KirbyKaze]

Samus ***** Pichu, DJ.

Mindgames don't stop crouch canceling.

 

[rhan]

wait, so why does Young Link pwn Mewtwo? :O

YL beats mewtwo I agree but **** is not a factor in this MU. His added mobility makes him a little more difficult to deal with than link. Its a pretty fun match for both characters. It turns into a camp fest, with a few action scenes. His projectile game is hard to deal with, but you cant cover every option every time and he still leaves openings.

Its definitely YL>M2

Also, who are these YLs?

YLInk and Link are two different characters that vary greatly. You can't put two and two together and expect the matchup to be the same cause it's not. Both characters are played extreamely different.

Fighting Mewtwo is like fighting Samus except a hellava lot easier. As long as the YLink player utilizes all of his projectiles efficiently then there no stoping it with Mewtwo. We kill you easily. You're just a fly caught in our web.

Laijin, TRC, Jash, Me, and I would assume Eagletrent (I believe I got his name right).

Samus ***** Pichu, DJ.

Mindgames don't stop crouch canceling.

Grabs do.

 

[ETWIST51294]

TRC quit Ylink Rhan, he's a Falco now, it's gayyyyy.

 

[KAOSTAR]

@rhan, what is the difference between yl and link vs m2, other than I shift to a hit and run projectile game?

any videos of these yl's that have notable projectile usage, or vs samus?

 

[Strong Badam]

mewtwo > dk?
wtffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

 

[KAOSTAR]

mewtwo > dk?
wtffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

yea, where you been at lol. I did a write up, apparently I was only wrong about m2 dsmash ****** dk's sweet spot lol.

m2> dk for certain

 

[Dark Sonic]

@rhan, what is the difference between yl and link vs m2, other than I shift to a hit and run projectile game?

any videos of these yl's that have notable projectile usage, or vs samus?

Uh, his boomerang does 19%, his bombs combo into any aerial he wants at every percent, and he has a wavedash (lol Link ). Young Link is over all more mobile than Link and 1000x campier.

 

[rhan]

TRC quit Ylink Rhan, he's a Falco now, it's gayyyyy.

Lol I have too but just because we quit the character doesn't mean we haven't learn him throughly. I main Samus now. I bet if you get me and him in the same room agains we'd YLink ditto. xD

Uh, his boomerang does 19%, his bombs combo into any aerial he wants at every percent, and he has a wavedash (lol Link ). Young Link is over all more mobile than Link and 1000x campier.

^^^@Kaostar.

YLink does work against floaty characters. Why do you think that we're about even with Peach and Jiggs?

 

[KAOSTAR]

im aware of that. I look at yl as more difficult because of this. I just don't see it being ****. yl wins but I don't see it being over yl> m2 .

I just wanna see this camp at projected max level vs good players.

peach and jiggs lack horizontal speed. m2 doesn't have that problem. puff spends time in the air in which you can't block. peach will have a hard time floating. m2 hates jumping unless he is comboing.

also if you throw things that leaves sb openings for m2. yl is annoying really, but you can retreat to long range to regroup.

 

[Laijin]

My opinion of the M2 vs YL match up.

YL shuts down M2 completely. If you play other fighting games i'll compare it to a few different match ups to put things in perspective:

V-13 vs Arakune.
Magneto vs Roll
M2K's Metaknight vs most of the nation.

Mewtwo's best option in the match up is to try to stick to YL and approach the entire time. His camping game is no where near as good as YL's, so he will ALWAYS get out camped if he camps. However, even his best option is terrible. Because Mewtwo is SO ****ING HUGE, he literally eats almost every projectile that gets thrown at him.
Lets take a look at his options for avoiding a bomb being thrown at him:

Side stepping: One of the slowest side steps in the game. Obviously a terrible choice since his bomb explodes and hits multiple times, so because his side step is so slow he will get hit by it as it hits the ground or probably punished by literally anything YL does because his side step is sooooo slow.

Teleport: Hmm..one of his better options. But it doesn't really do much for approaching. If you teleport in YL's face hes just gonna get kicked in the face or grabbed. If he teleports away..hes not really doing much to stop the camping.

Jumping: Cool idea. You realize YL is vastly faster than Mewtwo and can just simple run underneath him or literally anything else as this huge mother****er attemps to approach the fast and nimble YL, thus leading to more unstoppable camping M2 can't do anything about.

Shielding: Probably the best choice you have here. Of course, YL can catch his bombs as they bounce of your sheild thus leading to a great amount of shield pressure eventually forcing you to let go and get hit in the face. If you try to wave dash out of your sheild, the YL player can simply just..run away. What are you gonna do now? Chase him? Too bad...your not fast enough. Thus leading to even more camping.

Catching the Bomb: How many people can do this consistently? Good luck.

So as you can see, Mewtwo doesn't have any good options for avoiding bombs. Because he is also floaty, he is extremely to combo(Say hello to triple n-airs. ) and overall has a tough time avoid anything YL does to him. Have fun taking like 45+% damage off of one combo. =) Bomb + boomerang + n-air + potentially more n-airs = ****. Since I'm quite sure most of you don't know this, but YL in my opinion is the one character that can rack up damage the fastest next to Ganondorf off of the least amount of hits in the quickest way possible.(Not counting ******** **** like a fully charged B attack from Roy).

Conclusion, if YL camps he wins. The only hope M2 has is if your playing on a small stage where its easier to catch him. If your not playing on the two small neutral stages, good ****ing luck. lol.

btw I quit YL too I play Sheik now lol. But I still know the ins and outs of this character

 

[KAOSTAR]

"trying to approach" does not mean doing it and failing.

I disagree with alot of this. b4 we debate you should state you opinion on the MU using the chart.

yl beats m2. he is hella annoying to fight, but m2 isn't powerless.

lmao@dropping bombs on my shield. eat a fair oos and we will both take bomb damage.

 

[Laijin]

Oh gosh. Did I just start a debate? I hate debates.

Lets avoid this and just agree YL beats Mewtwo to a high degree but I guess if the Mewtwo is good he may have a slight chance....

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol. sure, although I don't know what beating somebody to a high degree really means but im ok with that.

 

[rhan]

LOL You can fair my bombs OoS. I'll be a good 50 feet away when you do.

GG. CP?

 

[MEXICAN]

yea, where you been at lol. I did a write up, apparently I was only wrong about m2 dsmash ****** dk's sweet spot lol.

m2> dk for certain

lol, you were probably wrong about a lot more than just that, your post was just way too long for me to want to read it. lol. Like thinking that you'd be able to d air DK's recovery, lol, thats laughable. And I think its still pretty close. I don't see myself losing to any M2 that's not taj's. The only 2 M2's i've ever even heard of are taj and Iori, I barely lost to taj and I beat Iori. I know there aren't better M2's out there than taj, I'm not sure about better than Iori (I might have mispelled his name, sorry to him if i did. lol)

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol, you were probably wrong about a lot more than just that, your post was just way too long for me to want to read it. lol. Like thinking that you'd be able to d air DK's recovery, lol, thats laughable. And I think its still pretty close. I don't see myself losing to any M2 that's not taj's. The only 2 M2's i've ever even heard of are taj and Iori, I barely lost to taj and I beat Iori. I know there aren't better M2's out there than taj, I'm not sure about better than Iori (I might have mispelled his name, sorry to him if i did. lol)

that dair convo was separate. m2> dk isn't a 1 sided event. that is pretty close. slight is the advantage. its completely reasonable for a good dk to beat a good m2.

I was only commenting on that being the most noted thing wrong with it. and I was aware about the length and you not reading it all. it didn't have to be perfect but I think I got my point across.

you still agree m2> dk right?

rhan-im just taking ****, but I meant fair link not the bomb lol. then it blows on us

 

[MEXICAN]

lol, M2>DK as long as Taj is still playing, if he retires, DK>M2. hahaha

 

[ChivalRuse]

Taj just posted that he's confirmed for Apex. Get hype!!

 

[KAOSTAR]

@mexican lol fair enough.

 

[otg]

The new metagame for this thread:

m2 vs. Ylink.


Zelda is dead.

 

[BunBun]

I didn't mean to be rude. I just say quit life alot lol.



It's obvious Samus has the clear advantage over Pichu and Samus will try to crouch cancel mad attacks that Pichu will throw out. That doesn't mean its a terrible matchup. Crouch canceling and some grabs isn't gonna fully shut down Pichu. I'll fight any Samus with my Pichu.

Lol but Samus getting a grab does fully shut down Pichu. It's not as easy as Sheik's, but she can still chaingrab the hell out of the little rat.

 

[Winston]

How does the Samus cg on Pichu work?

 

[BunBun]

IIRC it's dash grab if no di or di away, and turn around grab if di in?

Ihavespaceballs summon!

 

[Charlesz]

Cosmo's zelda is too good *****!

 

[TheManaLord]

The new metagame for this thread:

m2 vs. Ylink.


Zelda is dead.

too bad her popularity boomed and she places at tournaments