Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Mind Trick]

A sticky!? Lol, I sort of let this drift away since we were sort of done or at least as close to it, but I suppose I'll resurrect it then.

Here's the list from before:

Some Agreement:
Mewtwo > Yoshi
Peach >> Yoshi
Samus >> Yoshi
Yoshi > Pichu

I played a ton of matches today against Faab'ss Mewtwo, I think it's Yoshi > Mewtwo now

Others seem correct.

Spoiler

(/inb4kaostar)

 

[KAOSTAR]

how bout this:

**** yoshi
**** zelda
**** young link

lol.

 

[The Good Doctor]

how bout this:

**** yoshi
**** zelda
**** young link

lol.

Take your own advice. You seem to lve in a fantasy land where Mewtwo has good match-ups...
He sucks, he's worse than all three of those characters ******** offspring. Get over it.

 

[KAOSTAR]

a better character than yoshi and maybe yl.

beats yoshi and zelda, loses to yl.

im not delusional at all, I speak truth. my MUs for m2 are all accurate.

if he loses he loses, he wins he wins. I know how good he is, im aware of his limitations, I embrace his strengths and acknowledge his weaknesses.....no homo

 

[The Good Doctor]

a better character than yoshi and maybe yl.

beats yoshi and zelda, loses to yl.

im not delusional at all, I speak truth. my MUs for m2 are all accurate.

if he loses he loses, he wins he wins. I know how good he is, im aware of his limitations, I embrace his strengths and acknowledge his weaknesses.....no homo

He is not better than any of those three...

 

[KAOSTAR]

you don't know anything about any of them.

mewtwo ***** clowns-get at me

 

[The Good Doctor]

you don't know anything about any of them.

mewtwo ***** clowns-get at me

I'm just waiting until you claim that Mewtwo is a Sheik counter or something dumb...

 

[Laijin]

Mewtwo is a pokemon counter. I'm sure everyone here has seen the first pokemon movie..

 

[V3ctorMan]

I played a ton of matches today against Faab'ss Mewtwo, I think it's Yoshi > Mewtwo now

Others seem correct.

Spoiler

(/inb4kaostar)

WOOOOOOOOOOOT... Yeah Mind trick! <33

*sigh* however... I still think it's only =

not taking away from you or anything...just Taj's Mewtwo....it's...it's so difficult, potentially, I just can't see Yoshi > Mewtwo...it's more = than anything... but glad to see that Yoshi is getting some good ole love ^^

<3 Yoshi..

@Kaos - Yoshi ***** son! <33 no hatin on me ^^ (I still love Mewtwo, don't worry) Mewtwo vs Ylink is like.. sup;erduper annoying *sniffle* so much patience required.. but at times very fun! definetely YL > Mewtwo <3 you all

Also... Yoshi > all other 25 characters.. (Oh man it'd be soooooooo awesome) <333 *dreams* *wakes up into reality* *bursts into tears* ;_;

 

[otg]

I wish yoshi could jump out of shield.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yoshi looks pretty cool imo, but no jump oos kills it for me.

I miss jumps just by accidentally shield ing or shield stopping.

id play him if not for that (not over m2)

does OTG stand for anything?

 

[otg]

it stands for w'e the **** you want it to mean

 

[TheManaLord]

he's an ogling tit grabber as far as i'm concerned

 

[otg]

lol, that's certainly one of the most interesting variations I've heard

 

[rhan]

Take your own advice. You seem to lve in a fantasy land where Mewtwo has good match-ups...
He sucks, he's worse than all three of those characters ******** offspring. Get over it.

OMFG It's about time someone said it!

a better character than yoshi and maybe yl.

beats yoshi and zelda, loses to yl.

im not delusional at all, I speak truth. my MUs for m2 are all accurate.

if he loses he loses, he wins he wins. I know how good he is, im aware of his limitations, I embrace his strengths and acknowledge his weaknesses.....no homo

Diq riding a bad character is bad for your health.

EDIT: And notice what you just said. "my MUs for m2 are all accurate." We're talking about the character in general. Not how you fair against scrubs.

 

[The Good Doctor]

OMFG It's about time someone said it!



Diq riding a bad character is bad for your health.

EDIT: And notice what you just said. "my MUs for m2 are all accurate." We're talking about the character in general. Not how you fair against scrubs.

You know Mewtwo can out camp young link
/sarcasm

@KAO I'd like to here how Mewtwo is a better character than YLink.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I said he may be better. in the mbr list thread when I said it I said I wouldn't put up much of a fight for it.

m2 cannot "out camp" yl
/no sarcasm

mewtwo is definitely a low tier character. overall better than yoshi roy pichu bowser kirby ness.

I said he might be better than yl but that statement stands alone, I think yl isn't as good as gw zelda link or pikachu (mid tier imo) the last possible character m2 could be better than is yl, if not m2 belongs at the bottom of low tier.

only ppl who don't play the characters disagree on the MUs. I wouldn't tell ogling ****** grabber he is wrong about doc vs samus, or something.

as far as yl vs. m2 ive only said its not as bad as you think. yet I think we still agree that yl> m2.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I said he may be better. in the mbr list thread when I said it I said I wouldn't put up much of a fight for it.

m2 cannot "out camp" yl
/no sarcasm

mewtwo is definitely a low tier character. overall better than yoshi roy pichu bowser kirby ness.

I said he might be better than yl but that statement stands alone, I think yl isn't as good as gw zelda link or pikachu (mid tier imo) the last possible character m2 could be better than is yl, if not m2 belongs at the bottom of low tier.

only ppl who don't play the characters disagree on the MUs. I wouldn't tell ogling ****** grabber he is wrong about doc vs samus, or something.

as far as yl vs. m2 ive only said its not as bad as you think. yet I think we still agree that yl> m2.

I strongly disagree with your placement of Mewtwo, I have alot more experience playing with low tiers than you are giving me credit for...
I want to see your tier list placements, to see how they compare to mine.

 

[KAOSTAR]

link
zelda
gw
m2
yl

yoshi
roy
bowser
kirby
pichu
ness

was my opinion on the low tiers.

I said I would not really have any argument on yl being right above m2.

edit: i think thats what my list was

 

[victra♥]

I don't think m2 is better than ylink. Ylink can kill much better, and camp much harder. Against higher tiers, Yink can do pretty decent vs Peach and Jiggs since Ylink can camp so well.

I don't think Ness is the worst character in the game...and kirby isn't better than pichu. >:U

 

[KAOSTAR]

kirby is gonna **** on pichu.

no real argument to yl being higher

where would you place ness?

link
zelda
gw
yl
m2

yoshi
roy
bowser
kirby
ness
pichu

ness is pretty bad.

 

[victra♥]

no way dog.

its reason enough tbh. m2 is so bad man, give it up.

third from bottom imo. He's garbage, but less so than Pichu and Kirby

 

[KAOSTAR]

ill stand firmly that m2 is better than those bottom tier characters.

i think kirby is better than pichu. fine with yl over m2. possibly caught that iCG and made pichu too good lol, but ness is trash.

 

[The Good Doctor]

ill stand firmly that m2 is better than those bottom tier characters.

i think kirby is better than pichu. fine with yl over m2. possibly caught that iCG and made pichu too good lol, but ness is trash.

Ness still kills easier IMO
Killing is pretty important

 

[x After Dawn x]

no way dog.

its reason enough tbh. m2 is so bad man, give it up.

third from bottom imo. He's garbage, but less so than Pichu and Kirby

VICTOR WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE EVEN PLAYED SOMEONE USING THOSE CHARS

i guess alex played kirby for a while but i don't think either of us played it?

 

[Winston]

Kaostar usually comes off as pretty mewtwo biased, but I think he's fairly accurate on this one.

Mewtwo is almost certainly better than bowser, ness, and yoshi at least.
Like, ness is unreal bad. He doesn't do a single thing better than mewtwo and is equal or worse in almost every matchup than mewtwo.
Yoshi has a lot worse OOS options, has a harder time landing a grab/starting a combo, and isn't really better at anything besides being heavier. His matchups are also equally bad or worse than mewtwo's.
As far as Bowser goes, I feel like he's just far more limited in terms of movement options and so can't create openings as well and it doesn't give him as much play as mewtwo has. Being hard hard countered by Sheik doesn't help either. Again, no matchup advantages over mewtwo for the most part either.

Mewtwo being better than Roy is a maybe... Roy is really bad but his marth-wannabe tactics let him hold his own against Fox. He's a worse character against every other character probably.

Mewtwo being better than YL is only really controversial one I think. I don't know either character well enough to say. To me it seems like YL's good peach matchup puts things in his favor, though.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yoshi is awesome you guys *sniff* *cries* ;_;

Well, heh yeah he's pretty bad huh?? but still he's awesome I mean he's a dinosaur.....and he's GREEN <333333333333

 

[Mind Trick]

a better character than yoshi and maybe yl.

beats yoshi and zelda, loses to yl.

im not delusional at all, I speak truth. my MUs for m2 are all accurate.

if he loses he loses, he wins he wins. I know how good he is, im aware of his limitations, I embrace his strengths and acknowledge his weaknesses.....no homo

Alright lets get this out of the way first, if you know you have no OoS options, you aren't gonna use your shield much, except against high pressure chars, and Mewtwo isnt one of them. He beats Mewtwo flat on the projectile area, camp ECE all day, his big *** isn't going to stop it. They both can't really effectively edgeguard eachother. Yoshi is heavier lives longer obv.

Obviously Mewtwo has a better grab game, Yoshi almost doesnt need it however because you can just shieldstab his head with djc nair and start upairs from that to ****. Even neutral B can be used because his big *** in they sky is just asking to be egged/upsmashed/w.e. So what can mewtwo do? I guess he can get stupid grabs out of nowhere, but can't really follow up on that. He can tilt poke, which is easily CC'd/spotdodged with fsmash, hell even DJCC is easy against all of mewtwo's stuff. His earials all suck *** against Yoshi's double jump except maybe his fair, it's so easy to DJCC that ****.

So what do we have? Yoshi can force mewtwo to approach, and can then literally run a train on him. ****, I changed my mind: Yoshi >> Mewtwo

 

[V3ctorMan]

Alright lets get this out of the way first, if you know you have no OoS options, you aren't gonna use your shield much, except against high pressure chars, and Mewtwo isnt one of them. He beats Mewtwo flat on the projectile area, camp ECE all day, his big *** isn't going to stop it. They both can't really effectively edgeguard eachother. Yoshi is heavier lives longer obv.

Obviously Mewtwo has a better grab game, Yoshi almost doesnt need it however because you can just shieldstab his head with djc nair and start upairs from that to ****. Even neutral B can be used because his big *** in they sky is just asking to be egged/upsmashed/w.e. So what can mewtwo do? I guess he can get stupid grabs out of nowhere, but can't really follow up on that. He can tilt poke, which is easily CC'd/spotdodged with fsmash, hell even DJCC is easy against all of mewtwo's stuff. His earials all suck *** against Yoshi's double jump except maybe his fair, it's so easy to DJCC that ****.

So what do we have? Yoshi can force mewtwo to approach, and can then literally run a train on him. ****, I changed my mind: Yoshi >> Mewtwo

Mind Trick!!! I love you!!!! ^^; Allrite don't over exaggerate it's definetely not >> (although it'd be mad nice) ^^ for real man, you should play Taj's Mewtwo w/Yoshi.. honestly If I hadn't have played Taj's Mewtwo w/Yoshi...i'd prolly agree with you that Yoshi > Mewtwo.. but man Taj is on a whole nother planet w/M2... so what about Taj's Mewtwo > Yoshi.. Mewtwo = or < Yoshi.. lol idk..

Yoshi's amazering!

<3 Mind Trick <3 Yoshi power ^^

 

[KAOSTAR]

vman stop being nice and tell mind trick the truth mewtwo has the slight advantage but its probably 55-45 which is close enough to equal. ill say that if we meet its a def mm. actually Im pretty sure vman and I will meet at some point so thats a mm as well <3. I admit yoshi is tight, but m2 is better, even if the margin is small.



lol@mewtwo bias. the truth is the truth. you guy s can move everyone around but im certain thats where m2 goes.

if im biased vs accurate why do the top players of those characters tend to agree. have my reasons in MUs for m2 not been valid? so far the most controversial thing has been sb camping. which works on slow characters. was my comparison of sb to the other projectiles incorrect? (its better than charge shot).

I joke around about m2 with the whole m2 ***** thing etc. but I really do enjoy playing this character. and I don't count scrubs in my MUs, im far from the best player in the world or the most experienced. im sure you guys have noticed I post a **** load, maybe even too much, but I really just love this game and this community.

point being that I read alot of threads and ask alot of questions. Im not claiming by any means to know the most about this game. ive learned alot about the technical aspects of melee and general smash knowledge. I know a **** load of stuff about m2 and his MUs, while for most of the mid tiers I could only give you a general opinion usually based 1 sidedly from one of the characters i play or from a 3rd party collection of knowledge. mainly why I had very little to say during certain portions. somebody else definitely would know more, I think some of you should listen to that advice and stfu if your only m2 exp is watching the shadow claw series and taj vs ss on youtube, also if your extent of zelda knowledge is your best friends cousin got cosmos zelda down to 1 stock.

as far as my skill as a player, im not amazing but ill take my moments. im inconsistently getting better at being less inconsistent consistently lol. my biggest problems are sometimes lacking in confidence and having too wide a range of tech skill. its a different ball game when im feeling technical, without it I **** up what I want to do and easily become predictable and lose focus.

that aside I have a top level m2. obviously not the best, and m2 is still pretty bad so losing is a realistic scenario. I can definitely give ppl a run for their money, especially if they don't know the MU.

ill prove it one day. I don't usually say anything because tho im confident I can perform, until I do im not trying to sound like that guy. im gonna plan ahead and try to hit cat 5 or rom 3, or both. apex may be to soon for my paper, I gotta get a job lol.
/blog

 

[The Good Doctor]

Where do you live Kao...?
We need to play...

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hey Kaos, sorry for all of the hassle going on, I'm not exactly sure if you had seen my "edited" earlier post, and even though I had indeed agreed on Mewtwo, having the slight advantage, it's not a large enough advantage to make a chart Mewtwo > Yoshi.. 51/49 isn't exactly a large advantage.. Yoshi's only hassle is an approach option in this MU, and Taj's Mewtwo knows the ropes, and knows them very well..

Now I know I can't base this MU off of numbers such as 51/49, like I have, but the only thing that even makes me think the MU is even in M2's favor is because of how difficult it is to catch M2, (have you seen Taj's Mewtwo teleport tricks? SUPER ANNOYING! not to mention, he has a projectile, (which halters certain movements *charged*) which is the SOLE reason of why I even gave Mewtwo the slight advantage to begin with..but it's not a big enough advantage to make the MU in M2's favor, which is why I changed my opinion on it to =

I have spoken to Taj about this, and I'm certain he was telling me that Mewtwo has a much easier time racking up damage, I even remember him telling me that Mewtwo has the advantage, but not a large enough advantage for > because each of us had arguing points favoring our characters, Taj with Mewtwo, and myself with Yoshi. (if an advantage is even there.) He just told me over and over that Yoshi sucks LOL, and that I should stick to Mewtwo. (but he'd be happy if I left Mewtwo *sarcastic*

I have yet to defeat Taj's Mewtwo with my Yoshi, so based off of results, you could say Mewtwo > Yoshi, but I'm always going to argue for Yoshi's side that the MU isn't at a large enough advantage to say Mewtwo > Yoshi, and it's more towards = than it is > in mewtwo's favor.

Hope that clears this all up ^^

Here's another I had not to long back ^^

Originally Posted by V3ctorMan View Post
Another Vote added for M2 > Kirby, I'm not one that expenentionally knows this matchup with complete confidence, and I haven't played any notable Kirby players except for Pink Reaper, but just seems that Kirby has much less room for error than Mewtwo does. Top that off with better movement options, recovery options, and a better OOS game, better CC, better comboing potential.. I favor Mewtwo.. Granted, M2's grab game is very much limited as Kirby players who know the matchup will tend to crouch more often to avoid grabs, Mewtwo just has the better moveset to exploit..

As for the Mewtwo/Yoshi debate. I play both Mewtwo, and recently added Yoshi at a fairly competetive level and at first I was always Mewtwo > Yoshi, but now I'm leaning towards Mewtwo = Yoshi...if I had to judge it right now at this moment I'd lean in Mewtwo's favor but not by much suprisingly..Mewtwo's OOS options are always a plus, maneuverability for both characters are rather good, IMO, I believe Yoshi has the better offensive movepool a much diverse, useful projectile and above average kill moves on Mewtwo, however his OOS options are nothing to brag about, and has doesn't have much margin for error.. Now even though Im leaning on Mewtwo > Yoshi, To me it's only like 51/49 in Mewtwo's favor if even that.. I believe this matchup is much closer than what people may think of it..

Notably, I've fought against Taj's Mewtwo with my Yoshi, and (Yep I lost) mostly by 2 stocks and there's no better Mewtwo to practice against than Taj's, but I never found this MU or anything in it to be potentially difficult, or rather tough to accumulate damage, or anything that puts Yoshi at a large Disadvantage, I felt as I did everything I aimed to do just TONY'S JUST ****in good =p

I want to say Mewtwo = Yoshi but knowing that i've played the Best Mewtwo player already with Yoshi so I know, the max potential/level of playing it's slightly in Mewtwo's favor..but 51/49 isn't really adv, it's more equal lol =p so equal it is XD

That's just my two cents on this MU, (also note) i'm not really known for playing Yoshi, I just happen to have one thats above average, and looks pretty, and have the benefit of playing great players such as Axe, Forward, Taj since they all live in my state, but I'm still relatively not as known with my Yoshi, as I am with Mewtwo.. so maybe you'd prefer YoshiisCool or Mind Trick or any of the others.. ^^

Lol <3 You Kaos, but i already did... remember? ^

Yoshi's cool...^^ Mewtwo is very cool too, and you say I need to get on AIM more.. where you at son!?!? =)

 

[KAOSTAR]

@the good doctor, im from washington. lol curios as to why?

@vman, thanks again as always, I hope your yoshi is coming along nicely, more vidz plox.

 

[The Good Doctor]

@the good doctor, im from washington. lol curios as to why?

@vman, thanks again as always, I hope your yoshi is coming along nicely, more vidz plox.

I thought we agreed on this when you said you could **** my Zelda...
=D

 

[KAOSTAR]

oh, yea. nothing has changed lol.

 

[The Good Doctor]

oh, yea. nothing has changed lol.

Alright, we need to sync our tournament schedules sometime soon...

 

[Nintendude]

Just get Iori in here to settle the Mewtwo stuff. He's the only Mewtwo that's actually doing anything notable these days.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Just get Iori in here to settle the Mewtwo stuff. He's the only Mewtwo that's actually doing anything notable these days.

And Cosmo! for Zelda!

 

[KAOSTAR]

cosmos already said he has nothing to add on m2 zelda, but he would want to play like 50 games.

umbreon said m2 wins

 

[victra♥]

VICTOR WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE EVEN PLAYED SOMEONE USING THOSE CHARS

i guess alex played kirby for a while but i don't think either of us played it?

When was the last time you played someone in general =p

and it wouldn't matter...its not like theres any controversy over who the bottom 3 are.

edit: and kaostar, you're so biased towards m2 its hilarious =p