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- Thread starter t3h Icy
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- Status
john!
Smash Hero
I think Ness is a bit underrated. He might be 4th worst, but is he really as bad as the other 3? His fair and dash attack are good, he can DJC attacks, his back throw is very powerful, he can combo with uair, his fsmash is powerful and disjointed, etc.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
I think Bowser is better than Ness personally.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
His only ranged moves are Yo-yo (awful), F-smash (telegraphed to high hell), Fair (CCable to high hell), and Dash Attack (CCable to high hell).
Awkward double jump is bad against characters that camp with platforms because it's super telegraphed.
Arguably the worst recovery in the game. Seriously. You can trade 8% and kill him. The priority of his Up+B doesn't matter because most people edgeguard it with invincible ledgehop aerials.
B-throw isn't really that strong because it's extremely DIable. People (non space animals) can often recover without their double jump up to like 100%+
Having such terrible grab range makes shield opponents problematic because he has trouble getting in and grabbing them. Also makes it extremely difficult for him to punish pressure on his shield.
His upside is his decent combo game with DJC Uairs and stuff.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Ness is overrated by a lot of people. His recovery is the worst in the game and I'd love to see any Ness play against any top level player. It doesn't matter what character you are. You can **** his whack *** recovery up.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I use to think ness was better, but I learned about the other low tiers.
in competitive top level play, he CAN'T recover.
LAST
in competitive top level play, he CAN'T recover.
LAST
Fortress | Sveet
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Ness's overall matchups are much better than the characters lower than him.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Kirby > Ness? I could get used to this. :nerd:
Fortress | Sveet
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I think he belongs right where he is. 4th from bottom as far as match-ups go. This is the match-up thread.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Ness is better than Kirby.
Fj f-air and sh f-air are still good anti-air moves. Dash attack is ccable and shield grabbable but it at least gives him a way to get in on characters that completely outrange him, which Pichu and Kirby and many other low tiers notably lack.
N-air out of shield is only a frame slower than his grab, but he's bad at punishing pressure either way. His shield game is far from the worst though because if he manages to shield a punishable move he can djc aerial into other stuff.
That's why fair is used as an anti air and dash attack is used when reading a dash away or if the opponent is just stupidly dd baiting. You can't just disregard moves cuz there are ways to beat them.
this is so upsettingly true. There isn't much he can do to platform camping. He can however waveland onto platforms and djc dance on the edge of a platform to remain mobile and punish his opponent when they come down. However you're right, this doesn't really fix the problem
Yea... though noone knows how to gay ness's recovery properly. It's pretty funny actually.
Yea. Though it def has it's uses in getting people off stage since his edgeguarding game isn't too bad.
Nah... ness has a pretty long/quick wd which helps him stay mobile on the ground. So if someone's camping sheild then his mobiity could make his terrible grab range useful.
Also, nair oos is decent vs sheild pressure or just simple wd away. Oh you said punish... well lol
anyways i think ness is underrated tho not by much. His double jump allows for alot more mix-up potential then people think.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Are we really arguing about Ness being better than Kirby?
Come on guys...
They both suck but Ness sucks slightly less.
Come on guys...
They both suck but Ness sucks slightly less.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
but I think its pretty solid bowser pichu kirbs ness are bottom 4.
roy and then yoshi are next.
I think ness is over rated, but if his MUs are accurate then I guess he goes there, assuming the other ones are correct.
I don't play him cuz im use to better characters so i wouldn't know his MUs.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
Jiggs +1 Ics
jugfingers
Smash Champion
ness's recovery is not that bad if you can sweetspot the ledge.
plus if he gets hit out of his first jump at mid percent he can just jump back to the stage
plus if he gets hit out of his first jump at mid percent he can just jump back to the stage
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I didn't mean to disregard the moves entirely. I was simply pointing out the bulk of his ranged repertoire is either extremely punishable from shield, slow, or crouch cancel fodder. People tend to build up his ranged game to be more than it is. His grab range is additionally very poor and grab is usually a big part of answering crouch cancel, which makes it very effective against him. The fact that they have obvious counters works against him.
I don't find Dash Attack particularly threatening during a dash dance camp because of how the move works and because there are obvious ranges where you're vulnerable to it, and various (obvious) counters for each of those ranges. I haven't played a good Ness, though I doubt those really exist.
Fair is indeed a good anti-air.
I find his edgeguarding game upsetting because he lacks a useful ledgehop to transition from the ledge to the stage, or to setup his aerials. I suppose there are probably tricks to mitigate this, though. I'm not sure how he intercepts a space animal that tries to go as high as possible if there's a platform though. I suppose Bair? His inability to reach top platforms effectively bites sometimes.
I find this doesn't work out in practice because as soon as he WDs in they get a cue to spam shield grab or Nair OoS or move back and then Ness is stuck again or grabbed (because Ness's grab will almost certainly be outranged by the opponent's grab) or whatever.
Ness's Nair OoS won't stop Peach/Fox/Falco pressure. And it won't beat anything that Marth, Sheik, and Puff do to his shield either.
I suppose if they actually fight him for most of the match this might be a concern.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
what if he gets hit 2 times? his recovery is the most easily exploitable piece of ****.
IF he can just recover he can...na man kirbs is better.
ness 4 bottom above pichu
Fortress | Sveet
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I think ness is very underrated. Ness's djc is faster than fox's perfect shff, for one. As for covering his body, he is quite capable. His biggest flaw is being prone to getting camped.
and ness's upb is actually fairly decent. It has range to rival fox's with many more angles and he has true sweetspots from above and below the stage. Also, if somehow they ever get hit by your upb...
and ness's upb is actually fairly decent. It has range to rival fox's with many more angles and he has true sweetspots from above and below the stage. Also, if somehow they ever get hit by your upb...
SleepyK
Banned via Administration
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,871
my ness proves how good ness is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCarsBfmii4
nah jk ness sucks.
his recovery is "decent" if your opponent doesn't hit you out of the up b part.
the fact that the option to do so exists makes his recovery bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCarsBfmii4
nah jk ness sucks.
his recovery is "decent" if your opponent doesn't hit you out of the up b part.
the fact that the option to do so exists makes his recovery bad.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
so can m2. but his recovery is good.
but ness is too easy to edge guard. bowser is more solid than ness, at least on yoshi's lol.
I really think with a way to make it back to the stage he would be better. his recovery just offsets too many of his strengths.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
lol, I swear it's so hard. Usually if I try to jump out and hit him, I get there a moment too late and die, or he gets saved by the tail or something dumb like that. But maybe I just suck. I think it's better to either jump out and intercept his pk thunder (which requires a lot of time) or edgehog and invincible aerial (which not all characters can do effectively).
S l o X
Smash Champion
Getting rested while trying to recover as Ness is funny.
. . . actually, it isn't.
. . . actually, it isn't.
Fortress | Sveet
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mew2's djc is worse than peach's
Lovage
Smash Hero
i refuse to believe that kirby is the worst
i think ness is worse than him
MAYBE pichu but i dont know
i think bowser is good enough to be 5th worst or maybe 4th worst
i think ness is worse than him
MAYBE pichu but i dont know
i think bowser is good enough to be 5th worst or maybe 4th worst
This actually isn't true at all. Ness is capable of dealing with any shield pressure that can be dealt with (isn't like impossible to escape). because of how quick his djc is, he can move out of the way very quickly simply by djc oos. Which allows him to escape all types of sheild pressure, as well as punish ranged sheild pressure. Of course he will still succumb to it at times, but the tools are definitely there.
i spent the entire afternoon playing mofo and tho i'm not like top level or anything i can easily see that ness has the tools to deal with alot of sheild pressure.
yea... ness can get camped pretty bad to the point where it's hopeless.
problem with ness is that there hasn't been a really good ness to show his potential. like no offense, but simna wasn't really that good.
anyways low tiers are whack, stop wasting yur lives talking about em
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
we did a random char tournament today (which I won yay)
I got ness a lot
his ftilt... is so bad... it lasts a million years, i do it against a shield and get devastated
I got ness a lot
his ftilt... is so bad... it lasts a million years, i do it against a shield and get devastated
Crimson)S(hadow
Smash Apprentice
falcoooooo
counterssssssss
foxxxxxxxx
so therefore falco should be the best character
counterssssssss
foxxxxxxxx
so therefore falco should be the best character
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Doesn't work that way.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Falco is not a fox counter lol
JPOBS
Smash Hero
falco, who counters fox, gets countered by samus, who gets countered by sheik, who gets countered by kirby
so kirby is the best
so kirby is the best
Laijin
Smash Hero
Kirby is a sheik counter? LOL
JPOBS
Smash Hero
kirbys been a sheik counter since like 04.
Fortress | Sveet
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Ness counters kirby so he is the best
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think Falco vs Fox favours Falco 53.28 / 46.72 with the reasoning being that I simply dislike the matchup. I won't elaborate why, or articulate my points, I'm simply going to say I'm right, and that none of you have a chance of convincing me otherwise. Plus I'm kind of famous, and have a high post count, so you should all just believe me.
Laijin
Smash Hero
But you are from canada. lol
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