ATTENTION ALL TOURNEY HOSTS - Ban Ledge Stalling

[Espy Rose]

They aren't the same, people should just beat the **** out of players who do this after tournaments.

They definately aren't the same, but there are definately properties that the two issues share, most of which is the *****y whining coming from people I wouldn't expect (M2K for Ledge-Camping, and OS for MK) to whine about something so trivial.

Meta Knight is lame, but there's nothing I can do other than learn the matchup to its fullest and hope for the best (the best being that my opponent screws up).

Ledge Camping follows nearly the same process, albeit to more or less of a magnitude based on one's perception of the two issues.

 

[KO M]

Done agrueing with you M2K,

 

[Garquille14]

10 characters

 

[urdailywater]

...I think I hate this game now.

 

[Orion*]

Why don't we just do this. If after the time has run out, and the stock count is equal, both players resume that game at the percentage they were at, with no more than one stock each. In other words, if both players have two stocks, one is at 100, one is at 20, and the time is up, then they go back to that stage at the same percentages, but with only one stock each. This ensures that games do not run too long, but also does not encourage using a timer as a means of winning.

Then there is no reason to stall because it isn't even an option to win. That pretty much ends the argument.

Edit: Oh and <3 Skler.

lol that **** is gay XD
it reminds me of when i lost to you in a mk ditto at a nyc weekly. i had 0%, you had like 60% on delfino and theres like 30 seconds left so i just camp. and you and bum start yelling about how i have to play another match after this (i didnt know that this rule was in place) and the stage transformed and while listening to the TO (bum) i died, LOL!

youre a much smarter player than me though, so w.ez. at least i brought it to third match

 

[Mars-]

stalled the match? you're an idiot, there's 2 minutes left and Diddy can combo you across the stage with bananas then cartwheel dair you. I don't feel like having my damage go up immediately in a few seconds. If I wanted to really just be gay and stall, I would sit on the ledge and do Uairs. Instead I fought on the stage so it was fair after I realized there was 2 minutes left since he picked a large stage. I played Plank in a MK ditto friendly at C3 and I hit him once with Fair then went to the ledge and did nothing but Uairs just to test how broken it is.

I did a 0-120 (really 6-120) to him and killed him BEFORE HE HIT ME ONCE. This is also against another MK, and MK handles ledge camping well, and if anyone knows anti-planking strategies it's plank himself. Look how effective it proved. I ***** his whole stock without taking damage. I am not joking, I wish I saved the replay, it was really funny. Next stock I just fought normally. I ended up 3 stocking him that game but I had like 100 damage, which means all my damage came from the next two stocks. It's really broken and the community would benefit from it not being allowed. If you don't want to listen to my advice I don't care but the TO's should.

I really don't see how you can complain about irritating tactics, when you chain throw, tech chase all fast fallers, maybe you should watch the crew battle of you vs darkrain where instead of fighting you decided to stand by the edge and back throw all day. Brawl is a bit different, but hey, you should feel right at home with all these tactics.

 

[Mew2King]

you think i like playing like that? lol. It's a crew battle and I wanted to win so I don't let my crew down. I'm really good at planking, and allowing it will only help me win easily if I choose to use it. But I don't want to be that gay. If you actually played me when using that you would know what I mean. I just explained how broken it was when I used it on plank, I just don't like winning that way. But hey, if a lot of people decide to think like you, maybe I will just use that as an excuse to abuse planking until you all realize how broken it is. I'm going to wait and see what the next multiple people post before making a decision on this. I do have respect and honor though, and I hate using unskillful things that are really too good, but if everyone seems not to care, I'll just start abusing it in tourney to prove people wrong.

 

[Mars-]

...wrong.

Okay .

 

[Espy Rose]

you think i like playing like that? lol. It's a crew battle and I wanted to win so I don't let my crew down. I'm really good at planking, and allowing it will only help me win easily if I choose to use it. But I don't want to be that gay. If you actually played me when using that you would know what I mean. I just explained how broken it was when I used it on plank, I just don't like winning that way. But hey, if a lot of people decide to think like you, maybe I will just use that as an excuse to abuse planking until you all realize how broken it is. I'm going to wait and see what the next multiple people post before making a decision on this. I do have respect and honor though, and I hate using unskillful things that are really too good, but if everyone seems not to care, I'll just start abusing it in tourney to prove people wrong.

Do it then, nobody's stopping you.

 

[OF 'til I OD]

nobody's stopping you.

Can you not read? He's clearly stating the only thing stopping his doing so is...himself.

Do us all a favor and check out this site:
http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

 

[Royale]

I've seen something like this once before. It was a ROB who ledge stalled. Came up to fire a laser or gyro, and that was his whole game plan. And quite frankly I found this so annoying that I refused to play this player in friendlies. It's boring as heck, frustrating, and takes minimal skill. In my opinion, this is the sort of issue we should be worried about, rather than just focusing on banning MK. So yeah, it has my support.

Quite frankly if i ever came across this type of player, i'd just L+R START+A and put down my controller.

Im not gonna waste my time. If thats all a Ledge Stalling ***got is gonna do then, why waste my time? I got better people i can fight.

 

[null55]

This plank guy is a huge f@g.

 

[Heavy_Bass]

MK is gay.

Brawl sucks.

The end.

 

[Palpi]

For some characters the worst position you can be in is on the ledge, if your opponent is on the ledge, he has lost some option of attack, so prepare by perfectly spacing yourself, but like probrawler said with the lasering, that is a bit much. In my opinion, if your opponent is pressuring you while you are on the ledge you have every right to wait for an opening to advance, but the length can be too much.

 

[Heavy_Bass]

Play Smash 64. Every complaint you have from Melee to Brawl is the same from 64 to Melee, so that must mean Melee is just as bad as Brawl.

My complaints from melee to brawl

-Floatier
-Campier
-Meta Knightier
-Slower
-WAY less tech skill

So is all that true when comparing 64 to Melee? No?

Ok then.

 

[Jiggy]

Wow O.o

So I guess there's a technical term to what that one Olimar player was doing on norfair then. Ledge stalling.


If it's banned, I would have no problem with it. People dong anything endlessly for more than 5 seconds deserved to be shot in the face with bear mace.

 

[B_AWAL]

****...Mew2King making a complaint about Melee or Brawl??? This is serious!!!

HONESTLY, the entire point of this article is NOT to debate whether Melee or Brawl is better. So STOP MAKING COMPLAINTS ABOUT BRAWL IN THIS THREAD! There are A hellofalot more threads to discuss that in!!!

Although so far I haven't had a problem with ledge camping. But M2K has been around and fought the best of the best so considering that he won ALL 4 of the FAST TOURNEYS(BOTH Melee and Brawl doubles and singles) I'll def start making rules changes here at the Melee and Brawl tourneys in Tallahassee FL. I'll try to see to it that others in FL do the same for their tourneys.

If it's banned, I would have no problem with it. People dong anything endlessly for more than 5 seconds deserved to be shot in the face with bear mace.

LMMFAO!!!

 

[SleepyK]

s0ft vs RAM.
RAM (luigi) usually beats s0ft pretty handily, so s0ft (who plays jigglypuff) literally got the percent advantage and sat on the edge for the remainder of the 8 minute time limit twice.
that's the gayness of ledge camping.

 

[B_AWAL]

How could we enforce this rule M2K?

 

[JPOBS]

It takes a lot of skill to consistently and perfectly ledgestall in melee.

But it's brawl so it doesn't take any, the whole game should be banned for lack of skill, lack of being a competitive game, and gayness.

True comment is true.

 

[PB&J]

jason- i know its gay to camp the ledge because it is broken, but it shoudn't be banned there are several ways to avoid it, anyway..i think it was gay of u jason what u did to soft in pools at event 52 , but thats another story....its broken and gay but so is alot of things in this game..u win 90% or more of the tournies..i know u want to win 100%, but know won is perfect..so lets end this thread and play some smash

 

[Lizard]

Totally agree Awal..... PHB needs to ban these stalls just like all the other stalls in the game.

M2K.... could not support your cause more and i will be seeing you at the next FAST!

 

[Ace Of Flames]

Nice idea.

 

[G U R U]

I agree wholeheartedly M2K.

 

[Flamingo]

Yay for ledgestall banzz..

 

[chaddd]

I have a better idea. How about you get around it better?

I know for a fact it's not a flawless strategy, and for characters like Jigglypuff, it's downright laughable for anyone to attempt. The only character that maintains an inability to have the ledge stolen from them is Fox, and every other character is basically giving you a free stock when they attempt it as long as you know the proper response.

 

[cutter]

It's pretty funny seeing some tourney listings and a ****load of stuff has banned like D3 standing infinites, IC's infinites, and now Planking is next big thing.

 

[brinboy789]

im rather neutral on this one, i was antiban till my bro(G&W) was on PS1 and jumped and naired under the stage and Died left to hang onto the edge,and kept on repeating, its like foolproof, so...>_> idk...XP

 

[cutter]

im rather neutral on this one, i was antiban till my bro(G&W) was on PS1 and jumped and naired under the stage and Died left to hang onto the edge,and kept on repeating, its like foolproof, so...>_> idk...XP

I shall let you know... ledgecamping is not an unbeatable strategy.

 

[brinboy789]

I shall let you know... ledgecamping is not an unbeatable strategy.

its not unbeatable, but its raelly hard, annoying, and risky to beat it. im still leaning toward anti-ban tho xp

 

[Boxob.]

Play to win.

LawlIsBrawl.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Play to win.

LawlIsBrawl.

Yep. I know ledge stalling is frowned upon, but the saying "Play to win" does come into play here. It's debatable that many things should be banned, but I don't think it's that hard to stop ledge stalling. I think MK would be the only superb ledge staller that I can think of, maybe dedede but he's rather large.

 

[JPOBS]

its not unbeatable, but its raelly hard, annoying, and risky to beat it. im still leaning toward anti-ban tho xp

not unlike metaknight

 

[TKD]

I once played a G&W that only stalled nairs into edgehogs. I was IC so my best bet was to desynch blizzards which he bucketted. I still won, but I wonder if it's even possible for some characters to get around other character's edge camping tactics.

And if it can be safer to edgecamp than to play the game a better way, it means something's terribly wrong. I think some characters get a really miserable shot at beating some others when you add ledge stalling to the mix. Allowing people to do it is just wrong.

 

[swordgard]

I once played a G&W that only stalled nairs into edgehogs. I was IC so my best bet was to desynch blizzards which he bucketted. I still won, but I wonder if it's even possible for some characters to get around other character's edge camping tactics.

And if it can be safer to edgecamp than to play the game a better way, it means something's terribly wrong. I think some characters get a really miserable shot at beating some others when you add ledge stalling to the mix. Allowing people to do it is just wrong.

The thing is, if ledgestalling isnt banned, there is no reason to NOT edgestall with metaknight or some others. They simply have a very high reward comparativly to the low risk inputted. Furthermore, the opponent has no choice but to follow you or timer runs out. Pretty anticompetitive.

 

[Blackshadow]

I knew this day was coming soon. Everyone is now realizing that no, Brawl is NOT a competitive fighting game. All this time, people have been quoting Sirlin left and right to protect items being banned, stages being banned, etc etc. Now, when suddenly you people realize Planking is the only way to basically win, you start talking about "honour". "fighting properly" and "cheapness" when that's exactly what Sirlin was against first and foremost? It's hilarious, really, how hypocritical even the more experienced players are acting just to cling to that one hope that Brawl can function competitively.

The whole method of banning Planking is completely ******** in the first place. I mean, a time limit on staying on the ledge? ****ing foolproof, right? No. Try enforcing that at a tournament. Go on. Then be prepared to be laughed at when you kick someone out of a tournament for ledgestalling 9 seconds instead of 10, and not ever being taken seriously again. No, really.

The point here is that Brawl is a competitively broken game, and watching even Mew2King become the biggest scrub I have ever seen is absolutely pathetic. Face it guys - you chose the wrong game to adopt.

 

[Overload]

Brawl vs Melee debates remind me of Creationism vs Evolution debates. No matter how much evidence you have supporting the second, there are still a ton of people who will stick with the first no matter what.

 

[Oracle]

Play to win.
That's all that has to be said.

I knew from the very day brawl came out that one strategy would be developed that was nigh unbeatable.

 

[Dantarion]

This is something that is pretty much already soft-banned, but I understand M2K's position on this.

We don't want tournies to turn into stalling matches.

It hasn't been a problem because most players are honorable enough to at least FIGHT(Infinites are even better than stalling).

The timer is only there so that tournaments don't take forever. Its not supposed to be a crutch that you can rely on when you don't think you are gonna win a match normally.

 

[yummynbeefy]

while you have a point it isnt too hard to gimp them when ledge stalling if you get used to it

however i do agree ledge stalling should be banned for more than 10 seconds 10 seconds is fine anything more is just stupid
but if someone else is off the stage you should be able to ledge stall until they get back to the stage imo