ATTENTION ALL TOURNEY HOSTS - Ban Ledge Stalling

[Dark Hart]

I'm betting that if MK is banned, many people who play Brawl will stop.

I know I would.

 

[The Executive]

I say we ban MK and ledge-stalling. Two birds with one stone.

I'm in OS' camp on the Meta thing.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

OS and Skyler speak the truth. MK should be banned.

 

[OverLade]

MK shouldn't be banned yet.

Lets just ban ledgestalling now.

And worst case, someone make a hack to nerf nado. Try it in a few tournies. Without nado, most high tiers will go even with MK, or close to. And it'll stop people from trying to get free wins off of nadospam. This will encourage people to try other characters since they won't have to fear nadorape.

MK will still win, but more characters will have a decent chance because they won't have to fear gay MK players. No nado, and no ledgecamping = less MK gayness.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm betting that if MK is banned, many people who play Brawl will stop.

I know I would.

Meh, losing one person never hurt.

I say we ban MK and ledge-stalling. Two birds with one stone.

I'm in OS' camp on the Meta thing.

Ditto on this. MK is just so good overall.

And worst case, someone make a hack to nerf nado. Try it in a few tournies. Without nado, most high tiers will go even with MK, or close to. And it'll stop people from trying to get free wins off of nadospam. This will encourage people to try other characters since they won't have to fear nadorape.

MK will still win, but more characters will have a decent chance because they won't have to fear gay MK players. No nado, and no ledgecamping = less MK gayness.

Is hacking the game REALLY a considerable solution to the problem?
That's just absurd.

 

[NES n00b]

I say we ban Barwland that would get rid of 3 million gay things which are associated with barwl

fixed.

10gaybarwls

 

[Dark Hart]

Meh, losing one person never hurt.

I'm saying that it would be more than one person though. Honestly, if MK was banned a ton of people who leave the Brawl community. I promise you I'm not he only one that feels this way.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm saying that it would be more than one person though. Honestly, if MK was banned a ton of people who leave the Brawl community. I promise you I'm not he only one that feels this way.

I doubt it'd be significant.

There's also the chunk that would move to the next best character and just play that one instead.

 

[NES n00b]

If we had to ban all these stages, had to deal with tripping, learned that camping is really the only strat that works and that there is crap for a punishment system and less options overall than Melee, knew that there was no new technical skill involved, observed the metagame stagnating, seen people who had never played a competitive game a week ago stand a chance in a tourney against other competitive players who have been playing it for months, and saw the super imbalance between characters with first calling a ban for snake then with even more force and numbers a little while later for MK all the while people calling for ledge camp banning in less than a year. It has been what 6 months? We are still taking this game seriously? I mean come on.

I am pretty sure a polypocket fighters if it was released has a chance of being a better competitve fighter than this game.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I doubt it'd be significant.

There's also the chunk that would move to the next best character and just play that one instead.

There's also the huge amount of people who would never join the community because of it. Its hard enough to convince casual players that they can't play with items or on their favorite stage, try telling them that they aren't allowed to use their character if they want to play.

 

[fallenangemon0]

i probably should have mentioned, for those that don't know about it, this basically refers to "planking", stalling when you get the lead, which is usually done with MK, but is easily banned, as proven with inui trying this rule out before and having good success as well as a large turnout with it - even getting an OOSer like Bum to come.

JCaesar - it's a common sense thing

Ok so lets say that I am falco and my opponent is Marth.

I take his first stock BUT I have way over a 100 damage. So If I start Laser Spamming/Grab spamming to get a percent-lead then I am "planking".

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ that's different.

he's referring to ledge stalling with invincibility (sheik in melee, metaknight in brawl) or offstage (jigglypuff in melee) to run the clock out because they can't be attacked without the opponent placing themself at a severe disadvantage. in jigglypuff's case, she can actually do it in a way so she can't literally be hit without the opponent killing themselves but that's another matter entirely.

the point mew2king is trying to make, i think, is that nobody in their right mind wants to attack a planking jigglypuff or sheik or metaknight because doing so places them at a severe disadvantage. so the usual response is to camp back. but the issue with that is that if they just resolve to plank, even if they go up to 999% from lasers or whatever if they're a stock ahead they still win and it's a very gay way to win and makes the game stupid and based around patience and less about fighting.

the main argument against this is that sheik's up+b stall can be worked around by grabbing the edge before the hitbox comes out and that there is a level of impracticality surrounding such a rule. if there is a time limit placed on planking then what's to stop them from planking for the time limit, fighting for half a second, and then resuming planking for another segment? nothing, really. although there has been success in spite of this so w/e.

the other argument is that if they're ahead they've worked for a lead so it's logical they should be entitled to an advantage. which, admittedly, makes sense but the counterargument is that the advantage these characters gain from being ahead from such a stall-promoting tactic is disproportionate to the advantage pretty much any other character gains from being ahead.

and then at some point someone turned this into whether Meta should be banned or not.

 

[Doggalina]

i probably should have mentioned, for those that don't know about it, this basically refers to "planking", stalling when you get the lead, which is usually done with MK, but is easily banned, as proven with inui trying this rule out before and having good success as well as a large turnout with it - even getting an OOSer like Bum to come.

Just because a ban is enforceable doesn't mean that it's valid. It's easy to ban using the C-stick or jumping (or using MK), but it isn't done.

Second, is that large turnout DUE TO the ban on ledge stalling? I doubt it, but prove me wrong.

 

[Dark Hart]

There's also the huge amount of people who would never join the community because of it. Its hard enough to convince casual players that they can't play with items or on their favorite stage, try telling them that they aren't allowed to use their character if they want to play.

Exactly, banned MK won't make the community grow any.

 

[NES n00b]

Exactly, banned MK won't make the community grow any.

Why would you want the Barwl community to grow? It is like wanting more gangs running around in the streets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qHQ-y8ijSY&feature=related

 

[ftl]

Why would you want the Barwl community to grow?

Because there are a lot of us who play Brawl, enjoy playing Brawl, and like having a community of people to play and discuss Brawl with. It's the exact same reason anybody would want a gaming community to grow.

 

[wangston]

Is this going to be an official rule. Some one did this to me during a money match at a tourney. Is this going to be amending to the SBR official rule set. If so do it now.

 

[Overswarm]

Is this going to be an official rule. Some one did this to me during a money match at a tourney. Is this going to be amending to the SBR official rule set. If so do it now.

No, this is not an SBR official rule. It is unable to be used in competitive play.

 

[Skler]

OS and Skyler speak the truth. MK should be banned.

I said MK shouldn't be banned, neither should ledge camping.

As for the Ganon/Sheik scenario, Ganondorf can easily turn around, WD into shield at the Sheik and then wait for his chance to grab the edge. What's sheik going to do, fair his shield and get baired? Keep upBing? Sheik could waveland up and try to grab or something, but ganon still gets a fair chance of grabbing that edge. if Sheik tries to continue the stall she has to risk landing on the stage with her upB lag against Ganon. There are plenty of options open to Ganondorf in this situation, while they're all risky they are also high risk for Sheik due to her laggy upB landing. She can lose a stock if Ganon makes it to the edge and she has to upB back (CG + ****). Obviously Ganon is at a disadvantage while sheik camps the edge, but not at any more of a disadvantage he was at before because he picked Ganondorf against a Sheik.

Besides, stalling in a way that makes you invincible or unreachable is banned. MK's stall does not make him invincible, it just makes him a ***** to hit. Sheik's stall is one big invincibility fest, and really easy to notice. MK's stall is vaguely defined and has vulnerability. He can choose to use almost any move and as long as he does it off the stage and near the edge he's stalling? Maybe he was trying to discourage that person who was camping really close to the edge to punish his return to the stage. That's a smart move. If a judge came over to watch MK could simply hop back onto the stage (once his opponent moves away) and then resume edge camping after doing some retreating fairs. Is he stalling or just playing smart? Too blurry of a line.

Puff's edge camp is much more comparable to MK's edge camp, and everyone knows while Puff has a pretty good camp game on the edge it's still beatable.

Marth can DD camp near the edge against every character without a projectile as soon as he gets a lead in Melee. Why not ban that if MK can't camp the edge?

I <3 you though Jfox.

 

[JFox]

Why don't we just do this. If after the time has run out, and the stock count is equal, both players resume that game at the percentage they were at, with no more than one stock each. In other words, if both players have two stocks, one is at 100, one is at 20, and the time is up, then they go back to that stage at the same percentages, but with only one stock each. This ensures that games do not run too long, but also does not encourage using a timer as a means of winning.

Then there is no reason to stall because it isn't even an option to win. That pretty much ends the argument.

Edit: Oh and <3 Skler.

 

[fallenangemon0]

Why don't we just do this. If after the time has run out, and the stock count is equal, both players resume that game at the percentage they were at, with no more than one stock each. In other words, if both players have two stocks, one is at 100, one is at 20, and the time is up, then they go back to that stage at the same percentages, but with only one stock each. This ensures that games do not run too long, but also does not encourage using a timer as a means of winning.

Then there is no reason to stall because it isn't even an option to win. That pretty much ends the argument.

Edit: Oh and <3 Skler.

0_0

What else ya got?

(seriously thats a horrible idea)

 

[Skler]

Why don't we just do this. If after the time has run out, and the stock count is equal, both players resume that game at the percentage they were at, with no more than one stock each. In other words, if both players have two stocks, one is at 100, one is at 20, and the time is up, then they go back to that stage at the same percentages, but with only one stock each. This ensures that games do not run too long, but also does not encourage using a timer as a means of winning.

Then there is no reason to stall because it isn't even an option to win. That pretty much ends the argument.

Edit: Oh and <3 Skler.

That's a good way to do it. I guess they could still camp the edge forever, but if that's the problem make the stage that will be played edgeless. I assume Brawl has some stages that are tourny legal with no edges.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Why don't we just do this. If after the time has run out, and the stock count is equal, both players resume that game at the percentage they were at, with no more than one stock each. In other words, if both players have two stocks, one is at 100, one is at 20, and the time is up, then they go back to that stage at the same percentages, but with only one stock each. This ensures that games do not run too long, but also does not encourage using a timer as a means of winning.

Then there is no reason to stall because it isn't even an option to win. That pretty much ends the argument.

Edit: Oh and <3 Skler.

Sounds like a good idea except for keeping the same percentage. If the timer runs down, both players play only a one stock match starting at 0%.
Ledge camping should be monitored if its overly abused. It should be legal unless the person camps at the ledge more than half of the time through the match, then that is definitly not fair. More stages without ledges should be allowed in tournaments to prevent ledge camping, like Mute City, The Summit, Bridge of Eldin, Rumble Falls, etc.
So either allow those stages, or ban ledge camping.

 

[memphischains]

let just complain more with no productivity

 

[Overswarm]

Ledge stalling doesn't even work unless you're MK. Many characters have good ledge games... but most of them have to DO something from the ledge. After MK, I'd say Pit is probably the best at staying on the ledge... but even still he can't do much.

If someone is ledge camping and isn't MK, just turn around to face the edge, jump, air dodge, then auto grab. If you fall through them, jump and aerial/up+b. Put yourself in a position as if you were recovering; simply grabbing the edge when your opponent is recovering doesn't work, does it? So why would it work any other time?

 

[memphischains]

OS, sometimes i think you a genius and sometimes i think you're ********.

believe it or not, captain falcon as an amazing ledge game. so does rob and marth.
you should know that
pit is gay

 

[Overswarm]

OS, sometimes i think you a genius and sometimes i think you're ********.

believe it or not, captain falcon as an amazing ledge game. so does rob and marth.
you should know that
pit is gay

ROB and Marth are easily dealt with... get close to the edge, wait for them to let go, shield, punish. ROB and Marth can only fair from the ledge and do any good with it. ROB can also projectile spam from far away, but since he doesn't get fuel back on the ledge this is dangerous.

 

[Daimonster]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Because there are a lot of us who play Brawl, enjoy playing Brawl, and like having a community of people to play and discuss Brawl with. It's the exact same reason anybody would want a gaming community to grow.

I.....am not one with them.


DOWN WITH META KNIGHT!!!

 

[Daimonster]

According to the SBR ruleset...Ledge camping sounds similar to stalling. Abusing invunerability frames in order to make a fight unplayable etc etc.

 

[Overswarm]

According to the SBR ruleset...Ledge camping sounds similar to stalling. Abusing invunerability frames in order to make a fight unplayable etc etc.

wroooooooooooooooooooong


You can do things against ledge stalling. The only real exception is Meta, and you can still do things to that... it is just really dangerous and in MK's favor. Running away to get a better position is not stalling, nor is staying in one place.

Stalling is not saying "you have to be attacking your opponent at all times". Stalling is running around Hyrule Temple with Sonic.

 

[Tom]

[O'Reilly]****ING GAME SUCKS[/O'Reilly]

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

**** Wifi. We'll Do It Live!

 

[jugfingers]

[O'Reilly]****ING GAME SUCKS[/O'Reilly]

**** Wifi. We'll Do It Live!

hahahah, Oh Bill...

 

[fallenangemon0]

wroooooooooooooooooooong


You can do things against ledge stalling. The only real exception is Meta, and you can still do things to that... it is just really dangerous and in MK's favor. Running away to get a better position is not stalling, nor is staying in one place.

Stalling is not saying "you have to be attacking your opponent at all times". Stalling is running around Hyrule Temple with Sonic.

Bravo! Thats the end of this thread. If you dont agree please try reading this again. Good job OS.

 

[th0rn]

you can still do things

No Meta Knight/Brawl johns... everyone just stop sucking or play MK

 

[slimpyman]

i love lobbin eggs.... if only the ledge "refreshed" his altitude gaining ability, than i could truly ledge camp ;-) by the way, if you dont want someone to ledge camp, just sh off the ledge and spike them, or use your geometric skills and bank them off the side of the stage. standing on a platform waitin for someone is like waiting to die... i try to kill my opponents, so if they are teasing me, ill either spike them, or get "got" .... that means i may sd trying ;-0 its still fun.

 

[ArcNatural]

i love lobbin eggs.... if only the ledge "refreshed" his altitude gaining ability, than i could truly ledge camp ;-) by the way, if you dont want someone to ledge camp, just sh off the ledge and spike them, or use your geometric skills and bank them off the side of the stage. standing on a platform waitin for someone is like waiting to die... i try to kill my opponents, so if they are teasing me, ill either spike them, or get "got" .... that means i may sd trying ;-0 its still fun.

Point is you wouldn't attempt something so foolish when there is a 1000$ on the line.

 

[Espy Rose]

No Meta Knight/Brawl johns... everyone just stop sucking and ban MK

Fix'd.

10fixes

 

[th0rn]

/facepalm LOL =D