ATTENTION ALL TOURNEY HOSTS - Ban Ledge Stalling

[Daimonster]

Running away to get a better position is not stalling, nor is staying in one place.

Ok thanks for clarifying for me.

 

[Xanthus]

People keep bringing up mk but there are others who are (imo) worse because they have projectiles or air movement that can abuse it rather easily (rob).

You know how link can only clawshot to the ledge 3 times before he has to land to do it more? For those who are running hacked brawl tournaments, what about a hack doing the same for just grabbing the ledge? Also decreasing the time you can hold on to it perhaps?

Brawl is designed in a way that can favor ledge camping (not for all characters, and for those it is good with it can be argued, so I'm giving this wiggle room). The question is: is ledge camping really bad? When you get past the perspective that it's"cheap", why not use it if it works? Some people may call chaingrabs and other things cheap... why are people more intolerant towards stalling / ledge camping? That's how brawl is designed. If they don't like it, should they move on to another game, or should we shape competitive brawl to a different way? We imposed a time limit so that people can't camp the entire time, so we've already taken a measure (somewhat) towards stalling. Forcing somebody to come to you is just a form of pressure, isn't it? Why couldn't you just do that for 7 minutes.

 

[ZeroFox]

Great thread M2K, and I agree, this is a lame tactic and needs to be b7.

 

[Fletch]

If we had to ban all these stages, had to deal with tripping, learned that camping is really the only strat that works and that there is crap for a punishment system and less options overall than Melee, knew that there was no new technical skill involved, observed the metagame stagnating, seen people who had never played a competitive game a week ago stand a chance in a tourney against other competitive players who have been playing it for months, and saw the super imbalance between characters with first calling a ban for snake then with even more force and numbers a little while later for MK all the while people calling for ledge camp banning in less than a year. It has been what 6 months? We are still taking this game seriously? I mean come on.

I am pretty sure a polypocket fighters if it was released has a chance of being a better competitve fighter than this game.

Did everyone miss this? I wish it wasn't so long, or I would have found a new signature.

 

[thesage]

Ness and Lucas can't be ledge camped. Pick them if you don't ever want to be ledgecamped.

 

[MASAHIROx]

Yea **** you M2K

i will win the way i feel like.

just cuz you're good doesn't mean that you can influence the entire game.

do you think we're all mindless or something? how can this be enforced in way that would not be TOTALLY homosexual.

and honestly. i would love to have some neerdy dude watching our tourney game and calling out every time i ledgecamp too much and being like OMG you're DQed!

lol are you serious? is that what brawl is coming to?

If it is than **** that.

 

[Eggm]

I haven't played brawl in like 5 months. Are there any vids of an MK using his stall tactic and gaining a huge % or stock advantage from it? If there is link me please. That way when I go to dual tournaments melee/brawl I can do this with MK and possibly win money. Thanks.

 

[-Nana-]

^How ****ing gay.

 

[Lionman]

I should Ledge Stalling with Falcon while my oponent is spaming proyectiles, seriously, I need use this for make a good recovery, we should take WWE Rules, 20 seg max on the ledge

Example: A MK is doing this in the ledge, at 20 seg it becomes illegal and the MK Lose.

We have a problem with this, what happens if the MK return to the stage and then start to doing this again? well, is sample, reduce the time to 10, then 5 etc...

What happend with online tourneys? well, online tourneys sucks

Or ban MK

 

[-Linko-]

I should Ledge Stalling with Falcon while my oponent is spaming proyectiles, seriously, I need use this for make a good recovery, we should take WWE Rules, 20 seg max on the ledge

Example: A MK is doing this in the ledge, at 20 seg it becomes illegal and the MK Lose.

We have a problem with this, what happens if the MK return to the stage and then start to doing this again? well, is sample, reduce the time to 10, then 5 etc...

What happend with online tourneys? well, online tourneys sucks

Or ban MK

You can't actually enforce that. If your opponent stays on the ledge for 19 seconds, you will call a judge, won't you? Then, if the judge wasn't watching all your match, your opponent could simply lie and say he wasn't on the ledge for 20 seconds, and that he just grabbed it.

On the other hand, a MK ban is completely enforceable.

Ps: Lrn2wright

 

[Alukard]

LMFAO @ eggm ... how can this really b an argument ... if the game has that much trouble with ledge stalling ... seriously it shouldn't b taken that serious ... even m2k is noticing that melee is x10000000 better

 

[teh_spamerer]

I haven't played brawl in like 5 months. Are there any vids of an MK using his stall tactic and gaining a huge % or stock advantage from it? If there is link me please. That way when I go to dual tournaments melee/brawl I can do this with MK and possibly win money. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8&feature=related

 

[Deleted member]

There's also the huge amount of people who would never join the community because of it. Its hard enough to convince casual players that they can't play with items or on their favorite stage, try telling them that they aren't allowed to use their character if they want to play.

I don't think CASUALS will be playing at these tournaments.

 

[snowaxe]

Stalling in general is stupid. I am planning on going to tournaments this summer and that would be so stupid if the first match I do I get stalled.

 

[Alukard]

LOL

*unsuscribe*

this is stupid

 

[Lawlb0t]

I think this is only applies to Plank. Lol. He even stalls in Melee.

 

[Slush]

Wow, either use a character that can nullify this tactic, ICs ice blocks, or someone with a spike, or ness PK thunder, PK fire, etc. Get down there and hit them off the ledge.

Stalling is bad when you cant do anything about it, for example, MK continuous teleporting, but this? You can stop this.

 

[Pink Reaper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPaJvNJsqDY

lololololololol

 

[Mr. Rogu]

ive never seen this happen but thanks for banning it. stalling sounds really retarted. can you also ban edge hogging? its really gay

 

[Overswarm]

ive never seen this happen but thanks for banning it. stalling sounds really retarted. can you also ban edge hogging? its really gay

thread summarized

 

[ProBrawler]

It WAS an interesting thread. =(

 

[OF 'til I OD]

Yea **** you M2K

i will win the way i feel like.

just cuz you're good doesn't mean that you can influence the entire game.

do you think we're all mindless or something? how can this be enforced in way that would not be TOTALLY homosexual.

and honestly. i would love to have some neerdy dude watching our tourney game and calling out every time i ledgecamp too much and being like OMG you're DQed!

lol are you serious? is that what brawl is coming to?

If it is than **** that.

lawl

 

[Minwu]

I cannot, for the life of me, get around edge hogging!

 

[chic]

theres so many ways around this.

now, chain grabbing... we should ban that

 

[Blistering Speed]

So many facepalms in this thread my head is sore. The only one who has a near unbeatable ledgestall is MK. But it's ok because it's not like he's that good at anything else.

 

[Milos]

lol there are ways to get past everything. Even shiek's up b stall in melee just roll back to the edge and light shield edgehog LOL I can't believe no one mentioned that.

 

[knightpraetor]

I hate how people keep making out sheik's infinite stall in melee to be far worse than it actually was.

I'm not a brawl player anymore..though i have to admit that i was rather sad to see what this game had become after 6 months...and planking is ridiculously broken.

in melee, some of these options you people are talking about don't work against a sheik so easily.

the point is, a sheik should not be spamming ledge invuln without watching you. As soon as they see you wavedash towards them while facing away from them(from outside of range to actually wavedash directly to the ledge...such as with characters like ganondorf who have too short of a dashdance to get in proper range)..the sheik can just wait on the ledge..or use the better option of a regular jump for stalling...i think people tend to forget that opponents in shield can't really attack you very well..and that shield will wear down...so just be patient...now if you see them wd or jump out..you have an easy time punishing it.

marth at least could dash dance closer and closer (into range of an immediate wd onto the ledge) and try to provoke the sheik into aerialling into his shield.

you might consider the option of wd back with ganondorf without puttig up your shield..but if the sheik is patient she is going to be getting hits on you the majority of the time by waiting and reacting to your next wd

jump hogging directly should also not work most of the time against a good sheik

light shield edgehogging is a bit more useful..but i would still probably just wait at the ledge..then drop if i saw them jump out of shield (to dodge an immediate dair from shield)..if they wait and continue falling to come down after me..i still have my jump and my up+B..and the same for them..so i guess this is the best option..but i would say that sheik is at an advantage against most char off the stage down there...i don't think ganon's dj is quite as mobile as sheik's...so i think if the ganon fights he'll be at a disadvantage..

so in conclusion..ganon should probably roll back to lightshield edgehog..and if the sheik waits jump out and dair into ledge hog...but the sheik has a lot more options and can attack at any time

also, i don't know how fast your reflexes need to be to react to dodging ganon's dair..but i get the feeling that sheik probably has the advantage in that by a good percentage.

Now i'm curious, in brawl, what are you supposd to do if mk is ledgecamping? statistically should you succeed 5% Of the time? 20% of the time? I honestly think that the risk to the mk is almost zero..at best he will take a little damage..while every second you are in fear of a gimp. I lost to a planking rob in my first brawl tournament..but i felt that there at least i had a chance..although again, it was probably in rob's favor. i seriously doubt you should be able to hit mk when he is planking more than 20% of the time..all the while risking death..so if there is a method, please explain

 

[thesage]

Pk thunder or yo yos is that method lolz. Ness ftw.

 

[Milos]

haha sage I thought ur avatar was a storm trooper for a sec

 

[Serris]

So many facepalms in this thread my head is sore. The only one who has a near unbeatable ledgestall is MK. But it's ok because it's not like he's that good at anything else.

I just laughed so hard.

 

[1048576]

I only do this vs MKs. Fair is fair

Seriously though, you can't force someone to get up from the ledge when their opponent is waiting there to punish. But at the same time, if they back off, the one on the ledge should get up.

Rationing land ftw.

 

[KO M]

Your one to talk, seeing as how you stalled the match M2K with NinjaLink. May not be ledge stalling but stalling none the less.

What a hypocrite.

 

[Mew2King]

stalled the match? you're an idiot, there's 2 minutes left and Diddy can combo you across the stage with bananas then cartwheel dair you. I don't feel like having my damage go up immediately in a few seconds. If I wanted to really just be gay and stall, I would sit on the ledge and do Uairs. Instead I fought on the stage so it was fair after I realized there was 2 minutes left since he picked a large stage. I played Plank in a MK ditto friendly at C3 and I hit him once with Fair then went to the ledge and did nothing but Uairs just to test how broken it is.

I did a 0-120 (really 6-120) to him and killed him BEFORE HE HIT ME ONCE. This is also against another MK, and MK handles ledge camping well, and if anyone knows anti-planking strategies it's plank himself. Look how effective it proved. I ***** his whole stock without taking damage. I am not joking, I wish I saved the replay, it was really funny. Next stock I just fought normally. I ended up 3 stocking him that game but I had like 100 damage, which means all my damage came from the next two stocks. It's really broken and the community would benefit from it not being allowed. If you don't want to listen to my advice I don't care but the TO's should.

 

[Lord Knight]

It's mad gay, M2K did it to me when I was at his house and I couldn't hit him at all.

 

[Espy Rose]

stalled the match? you're an idiot, there's 2 minutes left and Diddy can combo you across the stage with bananas then cartwheel dair you. I don't feel like having my damage go up immediately in a few seconds. If I wanted to really just be gay and stall, I would sit on the ledge and do Uairs. Instead I fought on the stage so it was fair after I realized there was 2 minutes left since he picked a large stage. I played Plank in a MK ditto friendly at C3 and I hit him once with Fair then went to the ledge and did nothing but Uairs just to test how broken it is.

I did a 0-120 (really 6-120) to him and killed him BEFORE HE HIT ME ONCE. This is also against another MK, and MK handles ledge camping well, and if anyone knows anti-planking strategies it's plank himself. Look how effective it proved. I ***** his whole stock without taking damage. I am not joking, I wish I saved the replay, it was really funny. Next stock I just fought normally. I ended up 3 stocking him that game but I had like 100 damage, which means all my damage came from the next two stocks. It's really broken and the community would benefit from it not being allowed. If you don't want to listen to my advice I don't care but the TO's should.

I have one word:

So?

-----

You to Ledge Camping is what most of Smashboards is to Meta Knight, and both are starting to irritate on an unbearable level. Just get over it. (This goes to the Meta complainers as well)

 

[TheManaLord]

M2K big whining play melee.

 

[KO M]

stalled the match? you're an idiot, there's 2 minutes left and Diddy can combo you across the stage with bananas then cartwheel dair you. I don't feel like having my damage go up immediately in a few seconds. .

You just stated it yourself dude, you stalled to win, otherwise you may have lost.

Like I said before, ill say it again "Hypocrite".

and if you cared so much, you would stop using MK.

 

[Radiation]

I think Brawl is Sakurai's joke on the competitive community. Make an easy-to-play fighting game with a decent level of depth, then add all these crappy, situational infinites and perfect stalling moves with no way to get around them. I'm sure he's laughing at all the players wading through it just for money.

In any case, ledge stalling should be banned, because like most of the other ridiculously broken moves in this game, it takes no skill, is completely unfair, and is not conducive to competitive play.

And wtf with all the people in this thread blaming M2K for playing as a character he LIKES TO PLAY AS? Why does everyone like to pick on that guy so much? He hasn't done anything wrong except WON a bunch of times, and I haven't seen him plank at ALL during any of his matches (except perhaps maybe 2-4 seconds of spamming u-airs on the edge to get someone off him for a moment). The problem isn't MK or M2K, it's everyone that sits on the ledge spamming lasers or gyros or u-airs putting the person on approach at a horrible disadvantage. The fact that this problem exists in the first place really makes me not only disappointed in Brawl, but the people that sink low enough to do it.

 

[Mew2King]

and i'll say it again: you're an idiot, just like 80% of people on this site

 

[Binx]

I have one word:

So?

-----

You to Ledge Camping is what most of Smashboards is to Meta Knight, and both are starting to irritate on an unbearable level. Just get over it. (This goes to the Meta complainers as well)

They aren't the same, people should just beat the **** out of players who do this after tournaments.