ATTENTION ALL TOURNEY HOSTS - Ban Ledge Stalling

[Mew2King]

if you see someone who gets a % lead in a match and tries to win the match by stalling at the ledge, giving him a huge unfair advantage over his opponent, BAN IT. Even if you never saw this before, I am telling you from experience that it happens, and it's really ********. BAN IT. Make a rule so that they have to touch the ground at least once every 10 seconds from the point of which they grab the ledge, or an even better idea is to have the option of having a judge (like a tourney host or someone trustworthy, I recommend the tourney host) to be called over to the TV. Sheik and Jiggs could easily win matches in Melee this way, but everyone was too honorable to do it, because that ruins the point of the game, which is to be a fun FIGHTING game. Do you want people to travel to go to tourneys just to see THAT?

for those of you that aren't experienced in smash tourneys, this is a very cheap way to win, it's makes the game not fun to play... it doesn't even make it a game anymore, but rather an EXPLOITATION OF THE RULES. I remember Plank doing this to Eggm last year and him winning 2 tourney sets over him when he got a % lead. It's not to say he wouldn't have won, but it was done in a really dumb, boring way, giving a big advantage for no good reason. I tried this in 1 friendly vs chu dat last year sheik vs ICs in a friendly, I got a small % lead after shooting a needle then I ledge camped the rest of the time. Regardless if this was a friendly or not, I ended up 3 stocking him, while normally fighting properly it would be really close and at that time I probably would lose. King was ledge camping vs Forward in an OC3 match and Forward then said "that's all you have to do to win" and King responded with "yeah, it is" but since King is an honorable player, he finished the match properly by actual fighting.

Ledge Stalling needs to be banned, every Tourney Host needs to make sure that there is a ruleset that should have either 1) a 10 second rule for touching the ground of the stage or 2) a judge can be called over to prevent this from happening

there is no positive effect of allowing this at tourneys, all it does is ruin the game completely. We need to draw a line or else this won't even be a GAME anmore. And as far as I'm concerned, I like FIGHTING my opponents. Unless you want the future to be really boring and gay, I suggest you listen to my advice. Doing this will literally RUIN smash, so if you have any honor at ALL you should never resort to this.

Thanks for your time, and please do listen. I enjoy FIGHTING my opponents.

The sooner you do this the better, and remember - it can't hurt to be playing it safe, this will only help.

 

[Europhoria]

If this ever happened expect Plank to quit both games

 

[ThatGuy]

I'll agree to this one.

EDIT: Hi Mike.

 

[Europhoria]

Hi Joel! I lost the game
Ledge stall is gay though

 

[Espy Rose]

I'll just drag my reply out from the Southwest board:

The bolded part was just too good.

It sounds alot like, dare I say it?

Meta Knight.

Seriously, doesn't half of what he is saying somewhat apply to Meta Knight's scenario as well?

Too good.

 

[Sinz]

I thought that Ledge stalling qualifies under stalling, which is banned :/
Its just that the TO's aren't willing to do anything.

 

[JFox]

Its really not that hard to moderate.

"excessive stalling is banned. If someone feels their opponent is stalling the match, they may get a tournament official to view the match. If the official feels that they are stalling, they can either force the person to stop stalling, or the match will be forfeit by the accused who did the stalling."

Its really that simple. Make it happen.

 

[ProBrawler]

I've seen something like this once before. It was a ROB who ledge stalled. Came up to fire a laser or gyro, and that was his whole game plan. And quite frankly I found this so annoying that I refused to play this player in friendlies. It's boring as heck, frustrating, and takes minimal skill. In my opinion, this is the sort of issue we should be worried about, rather than just focusing on banning MK. So yeah, it has my support.

 

[Pierce7d]

See MK ledgedrop Uair into ledgehog, rinse and repeat. It's stupid. Ban it. Good thread M2k.

 

[Lixivium]

[Sirlin]

No johns, scrub. Just get good enough that they can't ever have a % lead over you in the first place.

[/Sirlin]

 

[Gea]

I thought this was banned already? Is where I am.

 

[RT]

Wouldn't this fall under the whole "no stalling" clause? I mean, it's stalling. Doesn't matter what the stall actually is, or why it's being done...a stall is a stall.

The TO should have done something.

 

[TheManaLord]

It takes a lot of skill to consistently and perfectly ledgestall in melee.

But it's brawl so it doesn't take any, the whole game should be banned for lack of skill, lack of being a competitive game, and gayness.

 

[Mew2King]

skill in melee? did you even play melee??? sheik has 10 frames room for error to do her up B ledge stall and still be invincible, along with having a broken fair she can use at any time, and jiggs' is similar.

 

[KirbyKaze]

this should have been brought up a while ago LOL

 

[Jam Stunna]

this should have been brought up a while ago LOL

I suspect that it really wasn't an issue worth addressing before Brawl.

 

[KirbyKaze]

iunno.

me and raynex and others (in canada) have discussed the power of ledge camping in melee with jigglypuff, since she can effectively force characters like fox and ics into terribly disadvantageous positions if she's ahead. forcing a fox to fight near the edge or simply camping offstage (puff can do this) is stupidly powerful, no other character can do this and she can even preserve her jumps while she does it (yay for pound). no character really has an out to it either, since she can simply run the time out if she's camped back.

sheik operates in a similar manner although with sheik you can snatch the ledge from her if you're quick. still a terrible situation to be in, though. it really does force the opponent into a nasty dilemma and there's no real counter to it, since you can't punish her if you grab the ledge from her. there's not enough lag if they reacted to you stealing the edge. more horribly she can simply fair and regrab the edge if you approach her with a low range character, which is also pretty bad. her ledgedash retains its invincibility for most of it too, which makes ledgedashing into a grab for an attempted gimp very, very viable.

brawl made it considerably worse though.

 

[Dynamism?]

This is banned with the stalling ban rule.

I've already enforced it one of my tourneys...in a friendly between my bro and his buddy >_>
...haven't seen it at it's worst in tourney matches yet though lol

 

[RaynEX]

When I host my next tournament I'll be sure to enforce this. I don't enjoy facing off against campy players in the slightest.

 

[KirbyKaze]

When I host my next tournament I'll be sure to enforce this. I don't enjoy facing off against campy players in the slightest.

irony

 

[Vyse]

Fortunately, I've never had to adjudicate on this kind of stalling.
But should it come to something like this, I think I'll be ruling against it.

Like many have said, it should really just come under the stalling clause.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Doesn't the delay from action in brawl when you grab a ledge force vulnerability? It always seemed to me like ledgestalling was hard in brawl because they could just do a move that hit below the ledge with tight timing and nail you during that "after grabbing a ledge lag". It really confuses me how people say it's worse in brawl than in melee; that just totally contradicts my experiences. I know it's broken in theory in melee if nothing else (Fox, Falco, and Bowser are fully invincible if frame perfect; I don't play melee at a high enough level to comment on in practice), but how does the timing work out in brawl?

I also have to ask how it was honorable not to do it at earlier tournaments if it was known to be the best tactic. Wouldn't you and those other players have done the game a service by forcing the issue earlier by being abusive of it? The fact that some people are arguing that it's already banned is really odd; it just seems like there's a big lack of clarity in the community over how good it is and whether it's acceptable. Regardless of the outcome or any lingering controversies, I hope we can all at least get ourselves on the same page with it now.

I also have one last concern. As a Mr. Game & Watch player, I frequently use his neutral aerial on the ledge for brief stalls. I don't really tend to try to win whole matches that way (it seems risky), but I like to use it to inspire opponents to back away and let me onto the stage safely. If you want to ban ledgestalling, how do you plan to handle players who are just waiting for the opponent to either attack them over the edge or let them up? Forcing the guy on the ledge to approach the opponent who is poised to punish seems a bit unfair.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm adapting this in my tourneys

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

M2K, I have a feeling this is in response to OS.

 

[brawler_pit]

I already ban it. it counts as staling and on the whole, stalling is banned

 

[dawgbowl]

I don't mind it being banned but...

...I mean, my PK thunders can get em >_>

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

at least ban absolute planking like what he does in that lugii's mansion match
definitley ban this.....it gets annoying and meta's priority gets the in the way of any type of block

 

[Keitaro]

Jman from NY ledge stalled me both rounds until the timer ran out with DDD.

Really gay, I'm not going to a tourney if I know someone is going to do this when it's not banned.

 

[JCaesar]

I only do this vs MKs. Fair is fair

Seriously though, you can't force someone to get up from the ledge when their opponent is waiting there to punish. But at the same time, if they back off, the one on the ledge should get up.

 

[Mew2King]

i probably should have mentioned, for those that don't know about it, this basically refers to "planking", stalling when you get the lead, which is usually done with MK, but is easily banned, as proven with inui trying this rule out before and having good success as well as a large turnout with it - even getting an OOSer like Bum to come.

JCaesar - it's a common sense thing

 

[BUM163]

i will use it in my tournaments. this just seems fair and right. mk can do it to easy and it's wayyyyyyyyyy to risky to try to hit him when his up b can k.o someone at like any percent.

my weekly is coming real soon and i will have that rule implemented.

 

[MattDotZeb]

fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck


Delete this post.

 

[TheManaLord]

I like how fundamentals are being banned from Brawl.

Great game.

 

[Overswarm]

i probably should have mentioned, for those that don't know about it, this basically refers to "planking", stalling when you get the lead, which is usually done with MK, but is easily banned, as proven with inui trying this rule out before and having good success as well as a large turnout with it - even getting an OOSer like Bum to come.

JCaesar - it's a common sense thing

i will use it in my tournaments. this just seems fair and right. mk can do it to easy and it's wayyyyyyyyyy to risky to try to hit him when his up b can k.o someone at like any percent.
my weekly is coming real soon and i will have that rule implemented.

Looks like you guys are just beating around the bush. Why not just ban Metaknight? You can't enforce this anyway... especially since it isn't stalling. You CAN do things about it, it is just difficult. That's why MKs do it, it's a good strategy.

Just cut to the chase and ban MK, you won't see this problem from any other character.

 

[UberBlackCleric]

See: Playing to win.

GGz

 

[Overswarm]

See: Playing to win.

GGz

Yeah, M2K's just scared people will ban his main now because ledge stalling with Metaknight = instant win. He started freaking out a while ago and has IMed me telling me not to ban MK because he "loses enough money as it is". He tried to give advice on how to beat MK, which would have been great, except it was all fairly shallow information that might help you beat random scrub MKs. :\

This is his latest attempt to safeguard MK.. take away one of MKs options. The problem is MK, not ledge stalling. Cut to the chase.

 

[Mew2King]

ROFL wow way to lie, I I'md you a long time ago saying that I spent a lot of time using MK and got really good with him and that would make me do worse if he's gone as I just wasted several months on learning something possibly useless, obviously if you spend a ton of time with a character and have that negated to nothing because of possible rulesets later on you would be mad. GJ.

Chibo is implimenting my rules in PA already, and Bum is implimenting it in NY, already in this short time.

Just because Mr. overswarm does not like MK because he supposedly counters rob and will make you do worse in tourney does not mean you can convince tourney hosts to be stupid enough to ban him.

the problem IS ledge stalling, I have not lost to a MK since dmbrandon when the game came out, and that was at my 1st weekend tourney of the game's release. I say you need to step it up.

Also OS, it's okay to have more than 1 character, you don't have to go 100% Rob everywhere. I mix between Marth Fox and Sheik in melee a lot, regardless of what you see in vids.

 

[Overswarm]

I main MK, Mew2King. I haven't played ROB in months. MK's just too easy.

 

[Mew2King]

so quit complaining and try to win with him. I'm sorry you aren't happy that Rob is not as good as MK, it doesn't mean the answer it to ban him. You're only going to convince random scrubs, NY NJ PA tourney hosts are not changing. Why don't you actually spend your time playing the game rather than whining about Rob isn't as good of a character as MK is. I'm pretty sure Neo wanted to **** everyone with Roy, but Marth is just a better character. If you don't enjoy the game, don't play it. My solution is fine, it has been tested before and worked, so stop trying to ruin everyone else's fun.

 

[NES n00b]

What's the purpose of playing Brawl again?