VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[crismas]

Niko is a freakin' beast.

 

[Quaz]

yeah I didnt play her at all last time we hung out, I still use her though.

 

[Van.]

Absolutely Not. I've seen them both play and I mean no disrespect to Dart, but Niko is defintely the better the two. There's also HBK. Not sure how much he still plays tho.

Interesting. Do you think niko would have beaten tope?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah i certainly disagree about niko > dart. Nothing against niko but dart is legit.


edit- unless ur talking specifically against peach

 

[Palpi]

They both have notable victories...who cares who is better. At this point, it is just regional bias.

 

[crush]

For future reference:
1. Jman
2. M2K
3. Citizen snips
4. File not found
5. Palpi

 

[ShroudedOne]

That looks about right, Crush. Although, maybe Palpi should be 4th?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Why isn't chillindude on that list

 

[Palpi]

Crush, hax is 4th

 

[The Irish Mafia]

y'all can go on the MAN channel to view my peach being a basic ***** vs reno, and then my fox being a basic ***** and suiciding a lot vs reno

 

[Teczer0]

I feel like you panic Dsmash too often.

Something I saw during iunno, first 15 seconds of that match and while I was playing you in doubles lol.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

hey guys I am a little embarrassed about this posts but i need some help. I am a pretty knowledgeable player, when I watch vids I can see mistakes and what they should of done ect ect. But when i play I have some issues with seeing my own problems and mistakes. I came to realize by watching others peach's play and then stepping back and looking at how I play I have trouble with some basic things which I need help fixing. And here comes where I am embarrassed, I need help understanding how to implement wavedash into my game. Its weird b/c when i watch people play i see where and when and why to wavedash but in my own game I have real issues with it.

On tues i played a friend who is pretty bad at the game and I went out of my way to try to use wavedash correctly and it was clear to me I was not doing it right. I am feeling a little better today when I played a better friend of mine and saw some improvement but advice or tips or whatever would be helpful and appreciated.

On sat I have a local tourney I am going to and at the last one of these G$ was there and I lost to him, Now i didnt have my good controller with me so I was not near the top of my game but I still felt that he would of beaten me ether way. Now since the last tourney I feel I have improved a good deal but i still feel like I need help with stuff So that is why I am asking for some help.

Lastly I also found out today that I do indeed suck against marth, any tips there? (tips is not a pun)

(post is long b/c I am feeling stupid for having trouble with something which is pretty basic and i should be able to use correctly by now)

 

[Teczer0]

When I use peach, my main use for WD is usually WD OOS to some attack. Her OOS game is strong that I rarely seem to use it as a defensive maneuver.

I play a fairly basic peach so I don't think I can offer too many other scenarios I'd plan on using it in. I occasionally use it as a positioning tool, like vs fox's nair I'll WD back dsmash or w/e.

Also, you'd be surprised at the things that even high level players do or don't do. Don't feel bad because you can't implement something you feel is basic.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach's wavedash is so incredibly sexy amazing. You don't even know (or maybe you do). It's main use is for defensive positioning, I think. As in, WD back > downsmash/grab whiffed/bad approaches from spacies, or dash forward > wavedash back to bait someone. In some friendlies, try getting a bit into their zone with a dash, and then WD back. See how they respond to that. If you run at someone, they'll often feel like they can attack you.

Also, WD OoS, which Tec0 already mentioned. Like against Marth's fsmash, or laggy moves (or even as a bait), you can usually WD OoS into something, like a grab, or dash attack, or dsmash.

I don't know if it can be used offensively, but it's pretty good for tech chasing. Getting followups off of throws, FC aerials, etc. If you get a good read on a tech roll, it'll help you get there faster.

As for Marth, you have turnips (watch how he reacts to them and adapt accordingly), grabs (dthrow, cause you can either get a CG on them if they DI wrong, or a dash attack that'll lead to uairs and other things at low percents), dash attack (a great launcher against him, esp. if he likes early fairs).

If nothing else, just remember that turnips make this MU easier (Marth has a lot of tools for dealing with them effectively, though, and they take like 29 frames to pull, so they aren't the end-all-be-all), and you want to push under him with dash attack, uair, etc. He doesn't have much below him, so abuse that. Turnips are pretty good for edge guarding, too. So is light shielding his upB.

I hope that helps you some.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok so far thanks for the help (the so far means more peoples opinions and ideas r still very much welcomed).

First about marth, The guy i play against seems to always Di my dash attack away from me so its hard to follow up. (in case u were wondering I do hit him with the part of the dash attack that sends up not out). Also I use turnips but honestly i try to use them to much and as u pointed out they r slow and i was getting punished for it. (i knew better but knowing better has never stopped me from making dumb mistakes lol).

I never thought of peach's wavedash as being that fast, how much does it help chasing down techs? b/c even with dash i am pretty good at that. I guess what I mean is is it faster to wavedash to were they r teching or do u mean use the wavedash if i start going the wrong way to quickly correct my mistake.

Now for wavedash oos, whats funny is i use this better then i do the normal wavedash, I think its b/c i was working on this more recently while plain wavdashing was something I learned many years ago when i was terrible. So b/c i was awful i never learned to use wavedashing correctly and then I just moved on with my game. (I guess these posts r now me going back and fixing that mistake)

Also thanks for the examples of when and how to use peach;s wavedash, they help paint the picture in my mind for me which is very helpful to me (getting things explained in this way is I believe the way i learn the best)

 

[Teczer0]

If you hit marth and can't follow up set up a pressure situation. I would probably pull out a turnip immediately after the dash attack and try to throw it to force him to double jump.

As for WDing as a tech chase, you can think of it sorta as a boost. You can WD then immediately go into a run and dash attack or w/e

 

[ShroudedOne]

Her wavedash is faster than just running, and if you get a good read, it helps you ensure the followup. And her wavedash is, like you said, quite good for changing direction if you go the wrong way. I've seen Armada do this quite a lot.

Speaking of wavedashing, I can dash forward > wd back perfectly if I dash to the right, but if I dash to the left, I can't do it at all. I end up turning around and shielding or some BS. I've practiced that specific way, but it always comes back to haunt me. I wonder if really good players pick up on people being weaker on one side of the stage than they are on the other, and take advantage of that. If so, it's something I need to take into consideration.

 

[Wake]

Yeah I had to practice doing motions from both sides until I wasn't weak in one direction... (I think I ledge tech better on the right side of the stage though -___-).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Its funny u bring up having more trouble wavedashing from one side. I to have that issue, and now that i think about it I have that issue with other games as well, i have more trouble doing quarter circles forward on one side of the screen when i play sf. I never really thought about good players using side weakness against people. its an interesting thing which I sort of want to find out (armada should visit us more to answer something like that).

But of course shrouded this is a weakness u can train away by just practicing wavedashing. Imo their r three things u can practice on your own if u have no one to play. One is tech skill, Another is spacing, and the last is learning your hitboxes. I sort of feel no one ever mentions the 3rd one when people ask how do i train by myself, but learning what the different hitboxes on each move does is really useful. (ex: peach's bair sending people forward when u hit with the front of peach). I know this is a little off from where the convo was but this is something I been wanting to post for a little bit now.

 

[V3ctorMan]

This Is Vanz thread, and stuff so I did wanna say

Happy Thanksgiving!!! Vanz (you don't know me btw)

However for those of you viewing this thread now (as im posting) N.A.G.A.C.E.
Happy thanksgiving you guys!! n_n <3 you guys!

And for everyone else who views this thread later...etc..
Happy Thanksgiving!!

~Vman~

 

[Wake]

I like Peach's wavedash so much. I like baiting OoS stuff by running up to someone's shield and then wavedashing back.

Wavelanding on to platforms is nice. Dtilt --> Waveland onto platform ---> Usmash is awesome.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

LOL i kinda forgot it was thanksgiving. yea so happy thanksgiving peach's and everyone else who looks here

edit: wake that sounds cool but is djl on a platform faster then wavelanding on one? Also thanks for the wavedahsing ideas

 

[Wake]

I have no idea, but I just like how smooth wavelands look DJL looks so awkward.

More of us should start wavedashing to the ledge instead of floating to the ledge. It's so nice, but I only do it in friendlies so far. I usually just forget and float to the ledge out of habit.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I think the djl is faster b/c waveland has lag b4 u can attack but i think u can attack right out of the djl, but waveland does look smoother and looks do matter . (on the other hand no matter how swag we look people will still hate on peach for no good reason)

eit: talking about wavelanding, for some reason when i practice on battlefield I always end up just trying to waveland on the edge of one of the side platforms then fall off b/c of the waveland then jump and waveland on the edge then off of the other side platform. I try to do this as many times in a row without messing up. its oddly fun

 

[DoH]

Be thankful for new DoH matches!

vs Azen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OO9e7s-y4

vs Tope: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-saPo6aQ6Y

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm not ever going to put the effort into learning DJL (at least for now), because it feels like it requires silly precision. But then again, I've said that for a lot of things which are innate, now.

I think I still roll towards the ledge, and jump off, or some scrub BS. I need to WD to the ledge more. And reverse turnip throws to the ledge are also good (maybe ADCIT to the ledge?)

I love wavelanding on platforms. It's just fun.

And cool. I need more Melee to watch.

 

[Wake]

Why thank ya DoH.

Reverse turnip throws to the ledge are life savers sometimes.

 

[VA]

Be thankful for new DoH matches!

vs Azen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OO9e7s-y4

vs Tope: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-saPo6aQ6Y

DoH.

I am a fan.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

shrouded the djl i am talking about is different then the one u r thinking of. the one i believe u r thinking of is the one where it looks like u never leave the ground. what I am talking about is u do like a full hop then when your feet/shins r sort of in the platform above u you hit jump again, then just like the djl u r thinking of u r now standing on the platform. (I believe for battlefield the timing is almost at the peak of the full-hop. the timing for this is not that hard.

so in case i didnt explain it well above, stand on the ground then jump up to a platform then when your shins/feet r inside the platform hit jump again and u r then just standing on the platform

Also DoH i watched your matches b4, they were real solid nice job. Just wondering was it kinda a mind**** to have to face azen. I have to imagine I would be messed up hearing I had to play him

 

[VA]

I was talking about the DJL a while ago NAGACE. You can act instantly out of it. It's too good.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

VA do u mean the one to the platform? we need to rename this **** so its easier to differentiate. how about the one where u jump to the platform is now on djlp (p for platform, look how cleaver I am lol) and normal djl is just djl? Also How long ago? b/c i remember someone talking about it kinda recently was that u? It was a good call to bring it up so good job

 

[ShroudedOne]

DJL to a platform is what I was talking about. I honestly think the timing isn't something I could do subconsciously. But I'll try it out and see what works. I remember a few Peaches (including DoH) talking about it over the summer.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

shrouded i have seen some of your vids, you r a solid player I am sure with some practice u will be able to get it. (I sort of feel I overall have kinda bad timing and I can do it like 90% of the time if not better). Also call it djlp b/c it really does get confusing which one we r talking about (also it would be cool if i sort of named a tech lol)

(i might just feel i have bad timing b/c i have this friend who when we use to play brawl could inf grab with the ic's back in 2008. Hus timing is kinda amazing so maybe I have ok timing but am just comparing it to his) note: inf grab on LI were banned b/c of him back then and in 2008 no ic''s could really inf grab, in fact he had the first vid of ic's inf on every character in the game)

 

[VA]

VA do u mean the one to the platform? we need to rename this **** so its easier to differentiate. how about the one where u jump to the platform is now on djlp (p for platform, look how cleaver I am lol) and normal djl is just djl? Also How long ago? b/c i remember someone talking about it kinda recently was that u? It was a good call to bring it up so good job

I call it VA lookin' fly when I do it. Dunno about you. Uthrow to VA lookin' fly > dsmash ***** on fast fallers. There is a very specific way to avoid it but I think it's a pretty neato little tricksy. I did bring it up a while ago because DoH was talking about following **** up on platforms and I was saying how waveland is a bad option because you can do the DJL thing and it's way better.

Try dashing out of it off the edge of platforms, it's actually faster than waveland....maybe.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh, well thanks. I always whine about things that I get later on, so maybe you're right. It'll just take practice to djlp (there you are). If I can fit it into my playstyle, I will. Right now, though, I'm content with wavelands/poking from under platforms.

We should talk about the ICs MU in here more. Cause I don't know enough about it, and then I walk up to ICs saying, "Oh, this should be free as PIE," and then I get 3-stocked twice.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Oh, well thanks. I always whine about things that I get later on, so maybe you're right. It'll just take practice to djlp (there you are). If I can fit it into my playstyle, I will. Right now, though, I'm content with wavelands/poking from under platforms.

We should talk about the ICs MU in here more. Cause I don't know enough about it, and then I walk up to ICs saying, "Oh, this should be free as PIE," and then I get 3-stocked twice.

djlp (there you are)

Now about the ic's u bring up a very good point, its such a historically bad Mu for the ic's we have gotten lazy, I am sure with just a little bit of info on the MU u would no longer have that issue at all. Now i dont have any info on the MU b/c the same guy i mentioned b4 also mains ic's in melee but he never plays them against me. But i do support getting some info on this MU b/c u never know and u dont want to be caught unprepared.

also to VA, lol at u calling it VA looking fly. solid name there

 

[DoH]

Azen is intimidating because he is the only person to four stock me in tournament.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I was talking to Fly about it on a chat, and he was saying that's it's pretty good in our favor, like 60-65. But ICs definitely have the potential to win that. Our floats aren't free, cause they can WD under us and usmash/utilt, and from there get some uair combos or something. There were other things, but I'm bad at remembering. Turnips cause them to desync awkwardly, though.

Our dsmash isn't that free in the MU either, from what I remember, cause they can WD OoS > punish in our end lag. Which sucks. But our shield pressure on them is pretty difficult for them to deal with, he said.

That's all I remember.

And Peach kills Nana really easy, too. Which helps a ton.

 

[baka4moé]

NOOOO SHROUDED NOT YOU TOO

l

 

[ShroudedOne]

...So many people have noticed. I didn't think I was paid attention to.

Yeah, baka, it's true. I like the show. Please don't hate me.