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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

Sleepy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
651
Location
Pasadena, CA (626)
If fox has to recover below the stage, and his angles are limited to straight up or diagonally up to get onto the stage, is dsmash worth trying? even if he can tech it?
 

Return

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
100
Location
Orange, CA (714)
Hey guys I have a question about FC bair on shield from a medium-height float (like the one Armada does against marths.) I always seem to get shield grabbed. Should I be fast falling after my bair hits their shield? or fast falling before? Or spacing it so my bair hits the lower part of their shield? I have no problem doing a safe low FC bair, but I always seem to get punished for a medium one.
 

MacD

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
6,891
Location
probably on a platform
you basically have the answer to your question. you just don't know why.

bair doesn't have much hit stun on shield so if you do a higher one, they will be able to act before you hit the ground. this is where peaking at frame data can give you answers
 

WIDL

We Are Born
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
249
Location
Philadelphia
I guess this would have to be a clutch read, but does runoff turnip throw to float nair cover Fox/Falco's illusion sweetspot? I have no means of testing it. I guess it's risky on Falco.
 

CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
Hey, I can actually do that fairly consistently. It's not that hard, it just requires practice.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
I honestly don't think DK Peach is that terrible for DK.

Definitely Peach's favor but Peach can get stuffed by Bairs, Bairs eat turnips, she gets 40%+ on her from a grab at low percent, and Cargo upthrow to Uair kills are free as hell. 1 grab combo and 2-3 Bairs, she's already in Cargo upthrow to Uair kill range.

It's like other low tier matchups like YLink where it can be annoying, you just need to not play dumb.
 

Klemes

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
236
Location
France
Hi, I'm curious about peach vs samus. Is it good for peach ? Are there a few good sets (fairly recent) to watch to learn the MU ?
 

Spluvin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
30
When Peach d-throws Marth does she have a guaranteed followup? Marth always seem to get his areal out before me.
 

CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
I doubt the information is wrong, it's just not always right.

Max shield stun for every aerial is +4 except for dair but +4 nair is only possible through an extended float cancel (usually nair is +3 at max). The amount of frames of positive advantage depends on how soon after you hit you land. The sooner after the hit the better.
 

Vanitas

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
812
Location
Final Destination
I doubt the information is wrong, it's just not always right.

Max shield stun for every aerial is +4 except for dair but +4 nair is only possible through an extended float cancel (usually nair is +3 at max). The amount of frames of positive advantage depends on how soon after you hit you land. The sooner after the hit the better.
Oh thanks! Yeah I know about every aerial having the +4 advantage (Except for dair) but I was wondering about the shieldstun. I'm actually an IC main trying to figure out some math and stuff surrounding FC Fair haha.
 
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CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
Oh, that makes sense. Sheild traps and such?

I don't know. I have no idea why the numbers would be wrong but they could be. Sorry, I don't know anymore.
 
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zabimaru1000

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
208
Location
San Francisco, California
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NightFox54

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
52
Location
Rockford, IL
Here's video footage of me killing Soft with a reverse parasol. It was totally on accident and I would probably never be able replicate this on any Puff in tournament ever again. lmaoooo

I would say I got lucky pulling off two jank kills in under 10 seconds.

https://clips.twitch.tv/showdowngg/SmoggyHorseBigBrother

Oooh, that was fresh. Also, I kept trying to get the kill off the top, that's the issue I was having. Thanks!
 

Sir_Slice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
53
I keep shielding on accident using Z to grab after FC'd aerials. I just read this happens if you hold z for longer than 1 frame not sure if that is accurate. Why does that happen is my first question.
My second question is should I use L/R+ A, buffering the L while FC'ing, to grab to eliminate the risk of missing the grab. I don't believe the shielding should affect my grab speed after FC.
 

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Rankings Team
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
I keep shielding on accident using Z to grab after FC'd aerials. I just read this happens if you hold z for longer than 1 frame not sure if that is accurate. Why does that happen is my first question.
My second question is should I use L/R+ A, buffering the L while FC'ing, to grab to eliminate the risk of missing the grab. I don't believe the shielding should affect my grab speed after FC.
if shield comes out you are holding R/L/Z too long after the L cancel. buffers light/hard shield to activate on first possible frame
 

Sir_Slice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
53
There was no L-cancel, its the grab after FC. The shield is coming out accidently trying to grab (using Z) after an FC attack screwing up my mixup game. I was wondering how other peach mains feel about using L/R + A to grab instead of Z after an FC aerial.
 

Quetzalcoatl

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
622
Location
Perth, Western Australia

Sir_Slice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
53
I use L+A because I get the Z shielding problem as well and found this to be much better. Go with L+A.
Cool Quetz thanks. It doesn't seem like it would have any negatives.
Does anyone know why or what mechanic it is that when you jump and uair asap that you land (with attack landing lag) on the platform without going the short hop or full hop distance? I was doing it with analog jump and c-stick for the speed. This just doesn't follow any mechanics that I currently know of.

EDIT: Found it; it was in the royal academy. Seems like it is a little too hard to make it a part of a routine. Maybe I'd practice it for just one of the stages considering the differences in timing for different stages.
 
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CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
It's an aerial interrupt. I think the peach polishing school has a post about it?
 

St0vE

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
6
3DS FC
2509-2650-1844
Switch FC
SW-3121-1921-9823
Can anyone recommend ways to properly shield pressure Sheik in neutral without getting shield-grabbed? I always try to space my dairs and bairs at the edge of her shield but keep getting grabbed and downthrowed.
 

Cyre

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
114
Can anyone recommend ways to properly shield pressure Sheik in neutral without getting shield-grabbed? I always try to space my dairs and bairs at the edge of her shield but keep getting grabbed and downthrowed.
You probably have figured it out by now, but in case you haven't yet, you should be fairing for some "actual" shield pressure.

It sounds like you were trying to bair in front of them, why? If I had to guess, it sounds like you're relying on floating backwards in your neutral, try mixing up your movement more, use the dash dances/wave dashes with your sh float heights to close the distance so you can go for a fair or nair.(Hell, throwing out fairs can help scare a person into a corner or back off.) Try mixing in turnips to help get in closer to the shiek, especially if she's playing campy. Also just having a turnip in your hands is sometimes pressure enough, cus peach can still use her aerials.

If you want to make dairs and bairs work to make someone do some stupid ****, for bair, you need to place yourself higher a bit above her head where you can hit her shield, but you couldn't hit her if the shield was down if that makes sense. But of course, can probably just get punished for this with an oos fair or nair from shiek, use at your own discretion. If you're behind her, maybe you just want to get comfortable float tomahawk landing instead and grabbing her.

For dair, you should be aiming for her feet or something, its not shield pressure though, doing either of these moves directly in front is generally asking for a shield grab. I like to go for dairs either high over shieks head while crossing them up, sometimes i'll catch someone slipping with their shield coverage. Or if you get behind their shield or see them on a plat, it's very easy to go for the feet.

if you need me to clarify some **** because my trail of thought/ writing is atrocious and confusing, qoute me so i'll actually come check the thread
 
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