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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

Discussion in 'Peach' started by Cia, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Cia

    Cia
    Expand Collapse
    das kwl

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    8,231
    Location:
    Top of the Tier List

    Hey Guys. So, I've look all over the Peach boards. and i couldn't find a thread that specifically teaches people how to deal with certain matches. Cort's thread is great, but he hasn't been around much lately. So I figured i'd make one. Think of it as a Peach version of MaNg0's thread. And I'm even going to use his format because it's simple as hell. (and cool) So.. let's go!

    *when i say 'people who play the match up best,' i mean 'people who play the match up best.. as Peach's opponent.'
    Peach Jargon

    Bair > Dsmash - Means Drop your float w/ a bair, and go directly into a down smash.
    Fair > Grab - Means Fair on your opponent's sheild. Then grab. The sheild stun from the Fair will not allow your opponent to escape.
    Float Camping - Using the Float the stay out of range of your opponents attack while keeping in range to punish your opponent's responses.
    Low Bair - Any bairs done while Floating directly above the ground. also known as 'low float bairs.'
    DADS - A flurry of Dash Attacks and Down Smashes. Apparently discovered by MacD.

    1. vs. Fox - 30:70 Fox


    Pros

    - Spaced low bairs can lead to grab
    - Low Bair > Dsmash pressure rapes shield and has a high chance to pierce
    - Up throw chain grab works til about 120%
    - at low percentages, Peach can CC > Dsmash Fox's Nair, and Dash attack. and can CC fox's jab up until like.. 120%?

    Cons

    - LASERS!! they're gay as balls.
    - Dair > Shine > Usmash aka the Bane of Peach.
    - Fox can combo your life away. from almost anything. Dair, Utilt, Uthrow, Bair, Falling Uair, Dash attack.. etc.
    - the Top Platform. it's the biggest assistant to Fox's camp game.
    - Ledge grab > Shine. it rapes when you're recovering from below the ledge.
    - Uthrow > Uair. can easily kill Peach below 90% But It can be avoided. KirbyKaze's AMAZING Guide to Smash DI


    At the highest levels of play, this match up is hard as HELL. The Foxes are making no mistakes which means less opportunity to punish. So you have to rely on your ability to bait his lag. Space your Float Bairs and try to corner him at the edge of the stage. he will need to pass eventually. so use Bair to wall him. Turnip approach rapes. Wait to see how your opponent responds to the turnip and punish accordingly. Once you get him down, KEEP ON HIM. you won't get too many opportunities to be on the offensive.
    Needless to say, you'll want to get him of the ledge asap. even at 0%. You'll either edge guard him to death with Low bairs, or you'll put a **** load of damage in the process. either way, it's a good thing. Nair OoS is good if you can get it, but Fox's Nair > Shine pressure is tricky.
    Also, Fox's Camp game is SUPER annoying. He'll be working the platforms alot. Never attempt to chase him to the top platform. By the time you get there, he'll be back on the ground. it's just a waste of time. Use this opportunity to pull a turnip and force a reaction. Use you're judgement and punish accordingly. As for the lower platforms.. fox will get destroyed on them. Especially if he's grounded on them. Just Hit him with any aerial. While fox is at lower percentages, Uair is preferred, when Fox is at lower percentages. It can lead to nair. and if they CC the Uair, they'll just get re-grounded.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Brinstar, Jungle Japes
    Stages they like: Yoshi's Story, Dreamland, PokeFloats, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Green Greens, Pokemon Stadium

    2. vs. Marth - 35:65 Marth


    Pros
    - Low Bairs Destroy excessive Dash Dancing
    - Dash Attack rapes him out of the air
    - Combos Marth REALLY hard.
    - Peach can camp him nicely.
    - can't be combo'd at higher percents
    Cons

    - Severely out-ranges peach
    - Fthrow > TIPPER = unhappy Peach
    - Fairs: they're just stupid. combo's peach til about 75ish. any DI. <_<
    - Utilt kills most aerial approaches
    - his Edge guard game vs peach is second to none. it's absolute hell to come back. and he'll probably tack on another 50% if you do make it back.
    - Easily tippers Fsmash and Utilt through most platforms.
    - Defensive game makes him hard to approach

    Marth's are becoming increasingly campy/ annoying. The only thing i can really suggest that works is camping back. Toss turnips until they approach. (They will at some point or else they'll never get any hits.) Bait his Lag and combo the crap out of him. (Nairs and Bairs) Tech chase with Low Dair > Nair. (the Dair often pierces the shield.)
    Also, i have a little trick for marth when he's on the ledge. Marth's second jump is pretty crappy, so he doesn't really have this spectacular way of coming back to to the stage. so.. just run toward the ledge and Shield. a few things can happen.
    - Marth jumps from the ledge w/ Fair: Shield grab
    - Marth jumps from the ledge w/ counter: just grab
    - Marth jumps from the ledge w/ buffer roll: chase w/ Low Dair > Nair (unless you can grab him out of the air)
    - Marth ledge stalls: step back, pick up a turnip, throw it and punish his reaction (usually w/ grab)
    Basically, Peach can also be annoying when Marth needs to comeback to the stage. Marth usually wins this match up because of his combos, tipper kills, and edge guards. the best advice I can give is to space EVERYTHING and DO NOT LAG!
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Mute City, Dream Land, Jungle Japes
    Stages they like: Yoshi's Story, Battlefield, Green Greens, Fountain of Dreams.

    3. vs. Sheik - 40:60 Sheik


    Pros
    - BAIRS! BAIRS! BAIRS! i can't stress the use of this move enough. Lots of consecutive bairs.
    - If sheik has to use her Up+B to recover, she's pretty much dead.
    - Dsmash wrecks Sheik. she has this weirdo weight class coupled with a laggy recovery that makes this move a Nightmare for sheik. And CC > Dsmash destroys Sheik's tilts.

    Cons

    - Sheiks grab combos are INSANE. the combos/tech chases are unreal sometimes.
    - Sheik's Ftilt destroys peach's aerial approaches. and Ftilt > Fair damage adds up quickly.
    - Sheik's Bair has a lot of range and priority. it can be annoying.
    - Needles. they're really gay and are a HUGE part of sheik's camp game. they also set up sheik's grabs/ combos.
    - Top Platform assists sheiks camp game as well.
    - Sheik's excellent edge guard hurts peach.

    So.. Sheik is pretty annoying for Peach. but not THAT much. it's not hopeless. Low Bairs are a real annoying to Sheik since it usually trades or beats Sheik's moves. Also, Bairing through a platform let's you cover A LOT of sheiks options when she's in a corner. it's low enough to hit her when standing, and high enough to hit her if she tries to waveland on a platform. win:win.
    the hardest thing about this match up is avoiding grabs. Grabs lead to painful combos. and with Sheik's platform work. it can be really hard to catch her some times. But rather than chasing her, it's best to use your turnips to trap her. Also, You can Nair under Sheik's Fairs.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Mute City, Yoshi's Story, Dreamland (i guess)
    Stages they like: Battlefield, Jungle Japes, Corneria, Kongo Jungle 64

    4. vs Falco - 45:55 Falco


    Pros
    - Dsmash = OMGrape
    - Super short FireFox w/o ring of fire = OMGrape
    - Up throw chain grab til like 85% = OMGrape
    - Peach can super combo Falco
    Cons

    - Falco can super combo Peach
    - Dair > Shine pressure is ridiculously effective
    - Lasers!! annoying as hell
    - Falco's Dair Again. It has sooo much stun. it's just plain deadly.
    - Short Hop Auto-Cancel Bairs. Creates this seemingly impassable wall against Peach. it's just annoying.
    - Shine > Shine > Firefox > GAME

    Falco is one of my least favorite match ups in the game. He's such a douche bag character. Dair > Shine > Dair > Shine. and if i shield it, my only safe option is to ROLL?? Douchebag. You could use the D'oH method and power shield everything, but I, personally, don't have the tech skill for it. Here's the link to his thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239815
    I recommend Float camping the crap out of Falco. Make sure that you are above his SH lasers and far away enough that if he tries to approach w/ Nair, you can drop a fair right on his face. While he's grounded KEEP ON HIM. Tech chase w/ Nair or Bair. If you get there too late, go for Fair > Grab. the point is to keep Falco on the defensive. If he's going to camp you anyway, why not be in his face?
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Brinstar, Mute City, Dreamland
    Stages they like: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, Pokemon Stadium, Corneria

    5. vs Captain Falcon - 40:60 Captain Falcon


    Pros
    - Easy to combo
    - Easy to edge guard.
    - Can be chain grabbed til about 80%
    - High Bairs
    Cons

    - Peach gets combo'd HARD
    - Nair wall is a pain in the ***. It will trade or beat Peach's aerials.
    - Uair knocks peach out of the air. ALWAYS
    - Falcon's bair wall is hell to overcome.
    - FAIR!! (i almost forgot about it). Grabs will ALWAYS lead to his broken Fair. (ask Hax$)

    So uhh.. Captain Falcon is my LEAST favorite match up in the game. i'm not too bad at the match up, but you have to be insanely precise. Float camping is a must. Especially when CF is spacing with Bairs. Jfox recommends (and i co-sign) the retreating Bairs. The only problem with that is if the CF over shoots his aerials, they WILL beat bair. So if that doesn't work, use the float camp method to punish his landing. Also, Dash attack his nairs. these should lead to some devastating combos.
    Avoid Falcon's grab as much as possible. Only pull turnips when falcon is FAR away. Don't rely on them too much for your approaches. Most Falcon's just Nair through them.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Mute City, Fountain of Dreams (because for some reason, most falcon's don't like this stage)
    Stages they like: Pokemon Stadium, Yoshi's Story, Dreamland, Battlefield

    6. vs Jigglypuff - 55:45


    Pros
    - Turnips are really gay against puff
    - DAIRS!! they combo into your other aerials and builds damage nicely.
    - BAIRS!! the key to winning the air battle.
    - NAIRS!! especially out of the shield. they ****
    - Puff is pretty slow, so she doesn't edge guard Peach as well as other characters (tiers)
    Cons

    - Less Dsmash. Like.. a lot less :( Puff will usually try to bait and rest them.
    - No 'Strong' kill moves.
    So.. this match up is just one big air battle. the trick is to read jigglypuff's movements, and attack during the cool down of her aerials. Any time she hits your shield, nair or bair! this is how you will build damage seeing as how there won't be many combo ops.
    Stages we like: Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Mute City, Kongo Jungle, Final Destination
    Stages they like: Dream Land, Battlefield

    7. vs Peach - 50:50 (duhh sthoopid)


    *It's a ditto. there aren't really any pros and cons.
    Ahh.. the ever so important ditto. It's all about spacing. There are many ways to play it. Some play campy, some play aggressive. Some just have no idea what to do. Basically, you just want to make sure that you respond to whatever the other peach does. Keep close that you can punish any lag. My favorite strategy is to bait my opponent into dsmashing. I usually follow up with Fair and chase. Depending of the other Peach's percent, you can usually combo into 1 on more nairs. Also, Dair > Nair > Dsmash is great.
    While the opponent is in the air, (w. float or Umbrella) chase them down w. Nair. Repeat this process until the your opponent dies. it's pretty amazing. Bair > Dsmash works well in the ditto too.
    I recommend being the aggressor in this match up. Keep up the pressure and use turnips to help control space. Low Uairs beat A LOT of Peach's aerial approaches and it combos. learn how to keep control of the match.
    *All dittos are best on FD IMO

    8. vs. Ice Climbers - 70:30


    Pros
    - All of Peach's aerials seperate them
    - Peach's Hit Stun + ICz low traction = a lot of missed punishes by ICz
    - Hitting both ICz leaves the hit out longer
    - DOWN ****ING SMASH!!!! just do it
    Cons

    - Deadly Chain grabs (i.e wobbling)
    - Timed Fsmashes hurt Float approach
    - Blizzard can be annoying

    ICz is hands down one of Peach's best match up (and is her best high tier match up) She's very good at separating them. One of my Favorite things to do while they're shielding is Dair > Nair > Smash. This is like.. guaranteed to send Nana away. Then you just keep her away with FC Nairs and keep Popo away with Low Bairs.
    You don't want to spend too much time on the ground. One grab from them and Peach's gross advantage doesn't even matter. Be sure to cover your landings.
    Stages we like: Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, Rainbow Cruise, PokeFloats, Brinstar
    Stages they like: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium, Dreamland

    9. vs Dr. Mario - 60:40


    Pros
    - Peach has better range. So it's not really hard to space him
    - Doc's like to crouch cancel alot. So get your fill of Dsmash
    - Poor recovery means you have a good chance of getting some early kills
    - Dair > Nair works
    - Doc can't really get away from Peach's pressure, so be aggressive!
    Cons

    - Pills. they are annoying
    - REALLY high priority Up+B makes it hard to hit him from the ledge.
    - Dthrow > Fair is DUMB!

    Alright so.. Doc's pretty annoying. But the match up is still in Peach's favor.I find myself using Bair approach often just to get through his stupid pills. once you get in, just keep on him with low bairs. Low Bair > Dsmash. Low Bair > land > SH Nair. to put it simply, doc is pretty helpless vs Bair, so Abuse it.
    A few things to look out for. 1) when your percentage goes pass like.. 70, be extra cautious about getting grabbed. Dthrow > Fair will kill you on most Neutrals by Now. 2) Doc's Dair > Uair approach. it can lead to some nasty combos. They'll most likely do this while peach is in float. However, if they go for the dair while Peach is grounded, CC DSMASH!! they'll eat at least 2 hits. 3) Most Doc's like Jab > Grab. Just remind them why it's a bad idea to jab peach.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Mute City, Battlefield
    Stages they like: Dream Land, Yoshi's Story, Corneria

    10. vs Ganondorf - 55:45


    Pros
    - Ganon is amongst the easiest characters to combo
    - Helpless recovery
    Cons

    - Dair > Dair > Possible tech chase Dair > Uair. Painful combo
    - Up+B out of shield is really annoying
    - His spaced aerials are incredibly annoying
    - Ganon is deceptively fast on platforms

    Ganon is one of those match ups that are really tedious. You have to be sure that your spacing is ON. Turnip > Fair is my favorite approach. it can lead to some nice tech chases and if shielded, you can follow up with grab. You HAVE to be precise with that approach otherwise you'll just fall victim to numerous retreating fairs.
    Another thing, while ganon is dashing all over platforms, just throw stuff at him. He can fall off/ through the platforms at any given time and his Bairs hurt. Dtilts are amazing if can land one. they lead to massive combos. Just remember that it's one of those high risk moves that are punished badly if missed.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Mute City, Brinstar
    Stages they like: Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams
    11. vs Mario - 60:40


    Pros
    - Peach has more range!!
    - Fairs!! Do them. Often.

    Cons

    - Mario's fireballs can be annoying if he camps with them.
    - Mario's Dair > Uair builds damage and can lead to more combos
    - Turnips aren't really needed, he'll usually cape them.

    This is another match up that Peach can really dominate by keeping up the pressure. Peach can crouch cancel an insane amount of Mario's approaches so keep your C stick ready.. lol. you really don't need an air tight strategy to win this. Standard Peach stuff will suffice. Some low Bairs here and there. A few things to watch out for though. If you're floating and Mario appears to just be standing, he's most likely planning to Wavedash back > Fsmash. you can either over shoot the Aerial (should be Fair) or you can stop short and prepare another approach. Another thing. Because you can't crouch cancel in mid air, Mario's see the float as the best time to start their Dair > Uair BS. So just look out for those.
    12. vs Samus - 65:35


    Pros
    - Samus is REALLY bad. It surprises me that she hasn't dipped into low tier
    - Bairs Shut her down completely.
    - No Need to camp.
    - CC / OoS punish almost everything.
    - Samus' roll CAN be chased by Peach.
    - Turnips. Samus can't do much about them
    - Uair will kill faster then other aerials on most Neutrals
    Cons

    - Up+B Oos is pretty annoying
    - Surprise Extender grabs are annoying
    - Peach can't really combo Samus.. shame on any samus that gets OD combo'd by peach.
    - Samus can Dsmash peach at like 50% and get a full charge shot before Peach can punish. annoying.
    I hate Samus. She's just boring. It takes for ever to kill her, She can't be combo'd, and most of them camp. Thank god the match up is so heavily stacked in our favor. Spaced Bairs work nicely and If done correctly, Samus' Up+B OoS will miss. Use Bair/Nair to get through missle spam. Spaced Fairs are nice too. In fact, spaced aerials are pretty much the way to go. Keep in mind that Samus players tend to crouch cancel EVERYTHING, so Fairs and grabs are most important early on.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Battlefield, Jungle Japes, Yoshi's Story
    Stages they like: Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Corneria
    13. vs Luigi - 60:40


    Pros
    - Low Bairs! Luigi can't punish them
    - Pretty easy to edge guard
    - Luigi has poor aerial movement, so just run from that and expect lots of ground approaches.

    Cons

    - Luigi's high priority aerials have high priority.
    - he has some nice juggles
    - MISFIRES. they complicate everything. stupid misfires.
    - Really hard to combo as well

    So my advice for Luigi is pretty much the same as Doc and Mario. EXTREME amounts of pressure. but I encourage it more for Luigi because he just slides everywhere. Keep on him with Low aerials and eventually the bad habits will come out (rolling, empty attacks) Peach wins this solely by praying on Luigi's inability to fight back. While in float, watch out for wave dash > Usmash. It's fast, strong, and has lots of priority. Also, don't go for combos. You'll just get Nair'd. One hit or two MAX. then go back to punishing his responses.
    Stages we like: Battlefield, Final Destination, Mute City, Brinstar,
    Stages they like: Dreamland, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story
    14. vs Donkey Kong - 65:35


    Pros
    - DK's sheild is amongst the worst in the game.
    - One of the easiest characters to combo ever.
    - His terrible side step is easily punished
    - Peach's aerials shut him down competely.
    - Fair and Nair knock DK out of his recovery


    Cons
    - Upthrow > Uair kills peach at like 100ish on FD
    - Bair wall is really effective.

    Donkey Kong is just such a breath of Fresh Air for Peach. Everything about his build makes him a slave to the Down Smash, so get your fill. Donkey Kong will spend most of his time Bairing, so i don't recommend spending too much time in float. Just pay attention to his patterns, when he's facing the other way, expect Bair. When he's facing you, expect grab.
    High level DK's will be very good at mixing it up, those will be the ones that you have to space and camp senseless. DK is rather slow, so you'll get a lot of turnip ops. Don't leave him idle for too long. That punch is nothing to take lightly. Even with good DI, it can kill peach as early as 80% on FD. and even worse, he can do it out of his cargo throw.
    Some things to watch out for. The First hit of DK's Up+B. It's so incredibly strong and quick. If you don't expect it, it can really eff you up. DK will often go for this when he see's you going for an overhead attack. The solution? don't do it. The back fist gets some kind of weird invulnerability during the first couple of frames. When timed correctly, it won't even trade. Just completely avoid things like Float > Fair (unless you toss a turnip first.. which can still be punished.) He'll also try this while Peach is landing. DK is more tempted to do this when he knows peach can't escape (like in the helpless fall state) so be careful with your landings. He can also Up+B out of shield. So keep all of these factors in mind when DK is shielding with his back toward you.
    Edge guarding DK is incredibly simple. Every single single aerial beats his Up+B. So you literally just go out there and hit him until you can edge hog him. Also, Peach can Uthrow > Uair DK about as much as he can do it to her, so grabs are really nice. Dash attack > Uair > Bair > etc. Basic combo strings are just amazing right now. So go for that extra hit when you can.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Brinstar
    Stages they like: Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Pokemon Stadium


    15. vs Link
    - 60:40

    Pros
    - Link will pretty much never be able to shield grab
    - Actually slower than Peach
    - Link is rather easy to edge guard
    - moderately easy to combo.


    Cons
    - Projectile combos are painful
    - Link's Up+B out of shield rapes. And the gimp hit is really ****
    - His nair is really fast, and has a deceptive hitbox at the end.
    This match up is a bit tricky. Link will constantly space with projectiles. So float isn't going to do you much good. Use turnips to approach and set up combos. The objective is to get link off the stage as early as possible. Dash attack is also really nice in this match up. it can lead to nasty combos. I recommen doing it when link jumps to pull a bomb. If you hit him, the only thing he can do is throw the bomb. And more often than not, it will miss. Keep on his shield with safe moves. Fair > Grab is an essential.
    Be extra careful when Link is holding a bomb. It can lead to some nasty combos. And the Nair! ugghhh. that move. the good Links will know how to abuse those deceptive hit boxes. The hit itself does like.. 5%, but because it has virtually 0 frames of cool down, it can usually lead to another hit. Prepare for that second hit. Don't try to punish the first Nair. Use your own Nair/ or Bair out of shield to punish the second hit. You should be fine from there. This match up is just spacing and picking your entrances.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Mute City, Jungle Japes, Battlefield
    Stages they like: Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise

    16. vs. Pikachu - 55:45


    Pros
    - Bair rapes
    - Turnips aren't bad either
    - Pikachu's shield is rather small, so keep on it. You're bound to stab.
    - Spaced fairs destroy him.

    Cons

    - Up Smash > PIKAAAA!! I've seen it kill as early as 57%
    - Pikachu can combo the balls off Peach.
    - Uair!! it's the gimpiest aerial I've ever seen. Even Peach's recovery is no match for it.
    - Pikachu can Usmash Peach out of grab D:

    This match up is pretty weird. You really want to keep yourself spaced at all times. Pikachu can combo off of any hit and it's really annoying. Alot of attacks can be CC Dsmashed, but I would rely on this for too long. Pikachu's short hop takes him pretty far, so they'll eventually just start Nairing through you. Just build some percentage with spaced aerials and turnips. Dash attack > Uair pretty much any of his aerial approaches. You also want to remain grounded most of the time. A quick Uair from Pikachu will hurt like a shine but with more stun. Also, evade the grab like your life depends on it. Because it does. The crap that Pikachu can do from a down throw is insane. At least his grab range sucks. So be careful with all of your attacks. DO. NOT. LAG.
    When recovering, be really careful with how you return. I recommend going directly into float (w/o using the double jump) and see what happens from there. I say this because if Pikachu Uairs you out of Parasol, you're probably not coming back. So don't be so quick to exhaust your recovery.
    When recovering from below the ledge, you absolutely much sweetspot it. If you don't you'll just eat a charged Fsmashed. And You can't even hit Pikachu with the Parasol because he attacks from so far away. If it's possible. I recommend using Double Jump > Float. Make sure it's just under the ledge so that when you drop the float, you cling to the ledge. From there, just use standard recovery tactics to make it back. Sometimes, X jump from the ledge isn't a bad idea because even if pikachu aerials, You still have a second jump.
    Stages we like: Dreamland, DK64, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story?
    Stages they like: Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Pokemon Stadium

    17. vs. Young Link - 60:40


    Pros
    - Bairs are your savior!
    - As a Peach player, your projectile game should naturally be good. So you can take advantage of his.
    - His recovery kind of blows. Just bair him out of it.
    - Young Link can't fast fall :laugh:

    Cons

    - Bomb > Dair rapes. Period
    - Projectile flurries make it difficult to safely go airborne. SO DON'T!
    - His Sword attacks have lots of priority.
    - Platforms. You will get Uair'd if you land of them

    Young Link has been recognized as the low tier defense against Peach for a long time. And truthfully if you fight him as you would most common match ups, he will beat the crap out of you. But in actually, peach has a solid advantage against him mainly because she gains a lot more from trading than he does. Not only that, but Young Link's range is pretty sad.
    To win this match up, you just have to be smart and recognize Young Link's attack pattern, which is basically Bomb > aerial. So what do we know about the bomb? It's a multi-hit projectile item with decent stun doing about 10-12 on impact. (each hit being about 2-3 percent) So we know that if we get hit, we're in for a world of stun an damage. and we're most likely gonna get hit during float where we move on a straight line and can't shield. So when we see Young Link with a bomb, DO NOT FLOAT APPROACH! whenever possible, grab the bomb or shield it. When young link runs into his own explosion, it's pretty funny and you can Nair him. If you are ever in a situation where you can't guard, crouch cancel > shield. Right behind that bomb is an aerial and 12% is better than 28%. Then you just Nair OoS. This match up requires tons of Shield camp, but it's pretty easy once you get in the habit. Use shield if necessary because bombs CAN shield stab.
    When recovering watch out for the bomb. Since you're airborne, you can'y guard or crouch cancel, so you're the perfect target for Bomb > Dair. Special recovery methods aren't really necessary, just be evasive. Jash has these really cool edgeguards for when you're recovering from below the ledge. 1) Young Link does a wave dash toward the ledge, but drops a bomb just before grabbing the edge. then he Nairs you. It rapes because if you don't tech, you get stage spiked. If you do tech, you get Nair'd again. 2) Young Link leaves a bomb right on the edge so that when your Umbrella hits the bomb, Peach gets popped up into a Dsmash, Nair, or Dair. In this scenario, you want to try and recover w/o the umbrella. If you can't, DI into the stage and tech bomb hit. It's pretty difficult, but it's your only option.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story
    Stages they like: Battlefield, Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Corneria

    18. vs. Zelda - 60:40


    Pros
    - Zelda is ACTUALLY slower than Peach
    - Chances of being shield grabbed are slim to none.
    - Very easy to edge guard.
    - Zelda isn't very combo intensive vs other floaties.
    - Her smash attacks are very easily DI'd (In versions 1.1 + 1.2)


    Cons
    - Zelda's powerful aerials give her insane punishment potential
    - She could turn into Sheik if she wanted to. Obv. it becomes a completely different match up.


    This match up is just one big test of patience. Both characters want to safe approach without falling for the other player's bait. But Peach has more tools for not only nullifying Zelda's approach, but getting in safely as well. You want have a turnip in hand a majority of the time (especially while floating) This gives you several angles to approach from making it harder for your opponent to guess. Best case scenario would be the Zelda player using Nayru's Love prematurely. Upon seeing this, you should immediately go for FC. Depending on Zelda's percentage, you can Follow up with FC Nair > turnip throw or just turnip throw to keep Zelda on the defensive. You want to keep on the offensive while your opponent is thrown off because this gives them less time to recover and think of a counterattack. Use this to get her offstage ASAP. From the lowest percentages, you can string FC Bairs/Nairs to push her off and force her to use Up+B recover. Take the ledge whenever possible so that you force her to comeback onstage and repeat the process til you get the stock.
    You want to the very aware of Zelda's positioning at all times. Her second jump may not go very high, but it is EXCELLENT for either pulling her back just enough land a spaced fair, or moving her in enough the spaced fair. A common tactic is to move in close to draw out a Dsmash from Peach. Then she just hops up with Fair/Bair. Replace the use a Dsmash w/ FC Nair. Chances are you can hit her before she can even starts Fair. If your Nairs aren't fast enough, just stay in your shield and wait it out. Another tactic Zelda's like is to jump right at you (as if trying to land a Dair or something) and then pulling back with Fair as you attempt a shield grab. Whenever Zelda approaches this way, just remain in your shield. Her grab is so slow, she should never get away with an empty jump < grab. Just block whatever she does followed by Nair OoS.
    While the match up is pretty much the same across all platforms, Zelda is a bit more threatening in SSBM 1.0 (NTSC) Her multi-hit moves (Fsmash, Usmash Nayru's Love, Nair) all have less space in between hits making them A LOT harder to smash DI. It's possible, but will happen less often especially while Peach is grounded. To get out the of these moves, I tap UP on the control stick, and UP+AWAY on the C-stick.
    Stages we like: Final Destination, Battlefield, Dreamland
    Stages they like: Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Rainbow Cruise.. apparently

    -I will continue to update this til all match ups are covered-


    Random Useful Stuff.. About Peach
    - I will organize this better when I get some free time.
     
    #1 Cia, Jul 22, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  2. Cia

    Cia
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    *reserved incase i need it.
     
  3. Blistering Speed

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    Fox is harder then Marth? Maybe in a perfect world, but the fact is Peach will get the opportunity to punish, even against people like Jman and that should always be a stock. With Marth, ****ing up is much easier to avoid and when he does misspace then you're not punishing to the same extent. Without the mess ups, what's Peach got? Turnip camping (lol) and dash attack?
     
  4. Fortress | Sveet

    Fortress | Sveet
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    ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

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    yea i totally disagree with the match up percentages you posted. 30-70 fox? 35-65 marth? the match ups are hard, but its not quite that bad. and 40-60 falcon? wtf?
     
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  5. _Keno_

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    fox is about that bad, but marth is more like 40-60.
     
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  6. JFox

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    LOL reading vanz comments about each character is so funny. Notice how FD is in peach´s favor in every single matchup, when in reality its def in, vanz just loves FD (for example, most people think fd is peach´s hardest stage vs marth)

    I´m pretty surprised u made this vanz, but props none the less.
     
  7. Teczer0

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    LOL its like Mango's thread but about peach LOL.

    Vanz percentage =D.

    Although I kinda think peach can fight a bit better than how Vanz depicts, Match up percentages are kinda... subjective. So whatever.

    *subscribes*

    EDIT: LOL GET AT ME. I DON'T PLAY MARTH BUT I PLAY THE MATCH UP AMAZINGLY XDDDDD
     
  8. Cia

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    Fox is definitely more difficult than Marth. It's not a good strategy AT ALL to rely on your opponent's **** ups. AND yes, the good foxes are NOT making many mistakes, most notably, Jman. And even with a good punish, it's not ALWAYS going to give you the ENTIRE stock. that's incredibly unrealistic.

    I standby my percents, but i'm open to reasoning. just saying you disagree w/ my numbers doesn't make me feel any different.

    I some what agree with this. But i gave the Peach:Sheik match up a 40:60. And i feel like Marth is a little bit more difficult. In reality i think. the Peach:Marth match up is like.. 38:62. but i just rounded up because that looks odd.. lol.


    Yeah, i feel like Final Destination is one of Peach's best stages in general for the simple fact that she won't be platform camped and people can't use platforms to gain leverage on her float.

    and i'm pretty surprised at myself for making this thread. it's not really my style, but a part of me would like to help any aspiring peach users =D


    Yeah, i totally used MaNg0's thread as like.. a template for this. lol. And you're probably the main reason I stand by my Marth numbers. 0 - 70% combos every stock is just gay.

    and another thing. I'm not saying 'Peach can't fight.' I feel like i'm the MASTER at overcoming tough match ups. But I know how insanely gay i have to play to do so. The Match ups that i put so far are Peach's toughest. I promise Peach will **** every other match up from now on =]
     
  9. raincatchfire

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    i think marth 70 peach 30 because marth can out range and prioritize peach in every way, plus can edgeguard her amazingly. a good marth wont let peach get turnips and she will have no viable approach.

    fox 65 peach 35 cause if fox doesn't make mistakes peach cant do crap. fox has a surefire way to kill peach... upsmash. and that is at like 70-90 normally. peach has to get fox till like 125 and even then she has no surefire kill move unless the fox messes up.

    falco 40 peach 60 cos falco can be comboed just as easy and killed even easier than fox due to his crap recovery. also its somewhat more difficult for falco to finish peach.

    shiek 60 peach 40 cos shieks combos and camping and just so easy to do. she can just grab and peach takes a lot of percent and/or dies. its also very easy to edgeguard with bairs, needles, etc. peach will get a lot of percent or probably die. shieks up-b tricks make it difficult for peach to kill her off the side.

    peach 60 falcon 40 cos I think peach only gets beat here if she plays bad. she can combo falcon like a mofo and has the float to counter his poor recovery. if the peach cant DI well and gets caught in his combos then she will lose.

    peach 40 jiggs 60 cos they are both floaty but jiggs can combo slightly better and has rest. all peach has is turnips which are GOOD, but not that good.
     
  10. Kone

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    marth on fd is terrrrrible for peach :( >_>
     
  11. Cia

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    ^ is there a neutral where peach would be better against him?

    i figure it's not SO bad because it's not like he can chain grab her. And because there are no platforms to land on, Marth will actually have to work for his tipper.
     
  12. JFox

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    for the record, i agree with every single percentage vanz gave, because these are all when looking at the very highest level of play, and assuming that people are going to play as gay as they have to to win.

    but thats not even whats important...everyone is getting way too hung up on the percentages. Who the eff cares, focus on the advice he gave. The matchup isnt going to change no matter how good or bad you think it is, so just focus on what you can do to win, lol.

    Vanz, i noticed you didnt mention anything about putting aerials above c.falcon (I like to use full jump retreating bairs or rising retreating dairs, and cort does that cortling stuff a lot). This is like my primary way of attacking vs falcon cuz he always has to jump to start his next move. Is this because you dont do this, or u just didnt mention it?
     
  13. (*Jman*)

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    fox peach is deff 70/30

    i dont think i can ever lose to a peach she cant hit u if u run =P
     
  14. Blistering Speed

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    I know. I'm not saying Fox is a good matchup, just that Marth isn't any better (as your numbers suggest). Peach also has to only rely on the Marth basically messing up. If a Marth doesn't mess up his spacing, Peach can't do much of anything, the difference is that when the Fox messes up he gets punished harder and chances are he's going to mess up more often.

    Don't nitpick, you know what I meant.
     
  15. raincatchfire

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    play armada. lol
     
  16. The Irish Mafia

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    Just looking at this for a couple seconds, you might want to mention that dsmash throws ***** on low-percentage fox and can be combo'd into easily
    Also, reno and Banks are good vs peach in my experience
    About the vs. falcon matchup, I was talking to scar and he said bair camping vs peach will make you win. It's more or less true. From my experience vs falcon, if he's off the stage (and it's easy as balls to get him off the stage) he's dead
    just fair / bair / nair / dair-nair a lot and he's toast
     
  17. (*Jman*)

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    LOL

    its still peach

    i love how u guys talk he placed good at 1 tourney and u guys **** suck him so hard LOL


    i dont think i can lose to a peach if i camp but i did not play armada


    and what fox did armada play that camp him hard and dont say lucky and LS cause they did not camp hard
     
  18. Banks

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    i'm good vs peach when i play like a homo

    a strong homo

    and lol speaking of reno i remember when he played cort this one time and was ****** then killed himself twice. BOTH GAMES OF THE SET

    sup reno <3
     
  19. Cia

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    Thanks J. And as for the Falcon match up, I kind of implied things like retreating bair when i spoke about float camping. But I should have elaborated some more. I'll add some more detail when i update the first post tonight.

    Jesus - Thank You! I'm really happy for Armada doing as well as he did, but I think he won't do anything to you when you play gay enough.

    And I also think Reno is good at the peach match up. But whenever i play him, it becomes 'Peach is so stupid.' 'I'm sooo bad vs. Peach.' 'waaaaaaaah' lolz. (btw, if left out anything in the Peach:Sheik match up, plz feel free to give your opinion =])

    Also, Reno has a nasty Peach too.
     
  20. KirbyKaze

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    Reno is asian.
     
  21. Scar

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    sup maf

    i actually meant CF camping bairs vs peach rapes, it outprioritizes most of her **** and you can space really well with it

    cf beats peach imo but peach is weird, it really depends on player skill, good peaches can overcome a lot (same is to be said about good CFs)
     
  22. soap

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    u should change it to "tristate people who play the matchup best" lol

    sheik kinda rapes peach, i don't see how she can get around bair

    anybody faster than her with a good projectile and bair kinda **** her. fox, falco, sheik, falcon.
     
  23. Banks

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    spamming sheik bair against peach is pretty illnasty
     
  24. R3N0

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    I saw my name pop up too many times to not venture into this thread.. I'm bad vs peach =x
     
  25. CanISmash

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    NA SON, UR JUST BAD!!!

    50 DOLLAR MM AT GENESIS....

    oh wait.......
     
  26. DoH

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    Best Peach dittoers are probably Xelic, Cort, and myself.

    Nair is super effective against Sheik and Falcon as preemptive strikes.

    Yoshi's isn't that bad against Fox, he can't get away. Also WD back his approaches and downsmash.

    Run up and shield against Marth's fair and then sh nair oos works. One thing Armada did against M2K was to make sure he was always behind Marth; this meant that marth had to do something like dair out of sheild which was easily punished. Jumping out and trading hits with him when he recovers rapes.

    Marth sucks on Brinstar. Bluezaft is probably one of the best Marths against Peach in the country.

    Down tilt and fsmash work wonders against Sheik; dtilt sets up for combos/kill moves and avoids grabs, fsmash blocks fair camping, avoids grabs, combos, or gets her out of your face. You can just nair through almost anything she approaches with. FoD is really good vs Sheik, downsmash everywhere, She can't get away, high ceiling,

    If Falco's approaching and you don't have time to set up a ps you can trade with nair; if he's at high enough percent, he'll fly off and die and you can tech the dair. Plus they'll be DIing down so they're ****ed. FoD is great against Falco too, IMO. Slaps are pretty good at keep falco from getting away and jumping out of stuff. Falcos are usually dumb.

    With Falcon, don't let him back on ever; I usually try really safe options unless I know I can get a bair gimp. Nair beats pretty much everything he has though, even dair if you space it right. Downtilt is great for avoiding grabs and setting up for chaingrabs and nairs/uairs. Battlefield is good against Falcon because of the janky edges, plus it's structure makes it good for control. Falcon is bad on Brinstar and Corneria as well. You must continuously mix up your DI against his combos because they're vicious.

    Peach dittos: fsmash her out of her aerial approaches, down throw to dash attack, turnip traps.
     
  27. Kouryuu

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    Mew2king is probably one of the best Peach dittoers out there.

    I swear, it's always the people who don't play Armada that think they can beat him. Jman, you'll probably lose. Just saying.

    Camping Bairs vs Peach isn't exactly the most effective strategy. Though it will get the Falcon far against Peach players who don't know how to fight Falcon.
     
  28. Cia

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    ^ I completely forgot about Mew2King.. lol. He's excellent at the ditto. I sparred with him when i thought i was money matching Pink Shinobi at Genesis.

    Also, i like a lot of the points D'oH made in his post. Only thing i don't agree with is the 'Falcon is bad on Brinstar' part. Falcon is pretty good there. and he combos pretty nicely from off of the lava

    -----

    anyway, i added Ice Climbers and Dr. Mario to the match up list.
     
  29. Blistering Speed

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    Jman vs Armada would be VERY interesting IMO. At the start of Genesis, he was one of the three (along with Mango and M2k) that I thought could beat Armada, he literally makes the matchup seem impossible, so his comments aren't completely groundless. Makes no difference how ridiculous adaptive and smart Armada is if he can't even catch Jman.
     
  30. Pink Shinobi

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    I've never played Jman personally, but if Jman won his first neutral against Armada, I would say Jman is more likely to win. I think he would actually pick a stages like pokefloats and run the whole time. But...who knows who would win until it actually happened.

    Also, Peach Dittoes...Running away is the best strategy. ^_-- <3
     
  31. The Irish Mafia

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    That's what I meant too lol. It's the main thing that captain can do to peach, asides from knee combos and grab to ****
     
  32. DoH

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    Yeah but you combo better from the acid, platforms mess him up, and the membranes mess up his l-cancels.
     
  33. JFox

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    IMO pink shinobi is awesome at the peach ditto, even if he does play like a *** the entire match. Just getting one hit on him is so hard, so you just end up chasing him and playing sloppy, and then he waits for you to do dumb mistake, hits you, than runs again lol.

    Vanz when his peach is on her game is def one of the most impressive peach dittoérs. Hes the only aggro peach that makes being aggro work for him. Wife is pretty decent if he can outsmart you, but he claims he isnt all that good at the matchup. Doh is basically a lesser version of Xelic, who is pretty awesome at the matchup too. Cort is just fast and precise as hell. M2k basically just float camps fairs all day and outspaces the **** outta you.
     
  34. Cia

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    i know!! it taught me so well how be aggressive while somehow keeping the other peach out of range. I really like dittoing him.
     
  35. The Irish Mafia

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    I was playing peach dittoes with m2k pretty early in the morning sunday, and he only used 3 moves
    1. Turnip
    2. FC fair
    3. Dsmash

    throws turnip to approach, you shield the turnip, he hits your shield with the fair, giving him shield stun to dsmash and stab the shield. He grabs another turnip, rinse and repeat
     
  36. Teczer0

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    >_> Avoid the turnips

    You know how slow they move in the air?

    I remember I was playing m2k in peach dittos and we were going relatively even until he pulled a stitch.

    Lucky *****.
     
  37. JFox

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    turnip fair dsmash should be shield stabbing you in peach dittos. If they are you are either shielding poorly (ie holding up while shielding) or your shield was low to begin with.

    Turnip fair/nair dsmash is peach approach 101 btw. If you cant get around that, you pretty much lose peach dittos, lol
     
  38. Kouryuu

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    I just realized how there is like three different 'Peach match up/advice' threads already. *Waits till this thread dies*
     
  39. Cia

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    ^ lolz. it's ok if my thread dies. they all do eventually. But at least all the info will still be there in the OP. and with Cort being absent for so long, a new Q + A thread doesn't hurt.

    * I added Ganondorf and Mario Match ups the OP. I'll probably be adding Samus and Luigi next.
     
  40. DoH

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    Linguini rapes Peach omg
     

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