VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

Mr. S

Smash Apprentice
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Was playing a Fox a lot the other day. He'd shine->wavedash->follow up but I was able to jab him out of his wavedash. I wasn't able to this consistently but got it more than a few times. Is this a viable option I should try going for or just the result of him flubbing something/random luck?
If you're able to get a jab out, then the Fox player wasn't fast enough. It's not really a "viable" option, per se; with good execution on Fox's part, there's really not much you can do about waveshine --> followup (usually upsmash). If you can get the jab against that Fox, you might as well go for it, but don't expect it to work on other Fox players.

Actually, CCing the shine might let you do that, but I don't know. If I had my game on hand, I would test it. I'm guessing CCing the shine might work at lower percents. But if you aren't CCing the shine or if I'm wrong about CCing the shine working, then it's an execution error on the Fox player's part.
 
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TL_MissingNo

Smash Rookie
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So if you're getting waveshined, you just have to take it like a man?
Or try to SDI in towards the Fox in hopes that he wiffs the upsmash or that he tries to waveshine you more than just once, but other than that yeah there's not much you can do out of it. Just try to adapt and try to keep that option in mind when playing a capable Fox.

However if you notice the Fox starts off his waveshines with drill first you can avoid that a lot easier by SDIing the drill to throw off which way the Fox tries to wavedash into his next shine. Lmao that run on sentence tho.
 
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DoH

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You can smash DI through him and hope he messes up, otherwise just SDI the shine various lengths to make it harder for him to get in a rhythm. If they hit you with a shine at around 90 you should die from an up smash :(
 

knightpraetor

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don't let him dair you though. with good smash DI dair into waveshine isn't really that legit. I mean they can hit it occasionally if they predict your smash DI, but if they are undershooting it that hard, then you should have an easy time just dodging the dair and getting free grab/dash attack/float nairs.

also if you smash DI in once they get scared that another smash DI in will put you behind them and they try to end it early a lot. don't drop tourney sets like me for trying to smash DI the shine in twice when you're at death percent:(
 

DJCrinkleCut

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I won my first set :D

Jeez though, switching between Smash 4 and Melee is so weird, I realized halfway through some friendlies playing Mario that I wasn't L-Canceling, and I caught myself spamming airdodge several times.

Still, I feel gud :3
 

Calzum!

LC | Team Heir
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I won my first set :D

Jeez though, switching between Smash 4 and Melee is so weird, I realized halfway through some friendlies playing Mario that I wasn't L-Canceling, and I caught myself spamming airdodge several times.

Still, I feel gud :3

theres only 1 answer to that

#DontPlaySmash4

gg's though for winning your first set
 
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knightpraetor

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what determines the strength of the umbrella hitbox? do different hitboxes have different knockback and knockback angles? does it get weaker over time? there is only one combo armada has done in the videos that i watch that i have yet to do, so I really want to do it. But I can't seem to figure out how you combo up B into nair. it was so glorious
 

Oaty

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Is DJC to land on platforms faster than waveland in place? I'm pretty sure it is but I can't find any frame data or info on it in this thread. Does anyone here know the frame data or just which one is faster?
 

ShroudedOne

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It's faster by quite a bit, actually. It has the added benefit of not leaving a smoke trail as a visual cue for your opponents (like a waveland will).

I don't know the exact frame data for the DJC, but it leaves in you in a completely lagless state once you touch down (so once you land on the platform, you're able to action on the ground). Whereas, a waveland onto the platform will leave you in 10 frames of lag from landing from an airdodge. In short, DJL (double jump land) onto platforms is much faster than wavelanding.
 

DoH

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what determines the strength of the umbrella hitbox? do different hitboxes have different knockback and knockback angles? does it get weaker over time? there is only one combo armada has done in the videos that i watch that i have yet to do, so I really want to do it. But I can't seem to figure out how you combo up B into nair. it was so glorious
I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that a reverse parasol will kill puff at 0 on Yoshis
 

ConnorTheKid

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Hey guys! I'm never on smashboards anymore and most of you probably don't know me but I took some notes that I think could be helpful to some here. I'm thinking about doing more but I'd really like some feedback so if you could check it out and let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it! http://pastebin.com/sRq7VBjy
 

DJCrinkleCut

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Hey guys! I'm never on smashboards anymore and most of you probably don't know me but I took some notes that I think could be helpful to some here. I'm thinking about doing more but I'd really like some feedback so if you could check it out and let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it! http://pastebin.com/sRq7VBjy
Thanks a bunch, dude, this will be helpful!
 

ViVio

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Hey guys! I'm never on smashboards anymore and most of you probably don't know me but I took some notes that I think could be helpful to some here. I'm thinking about doing more but I'd really like some feedback so if you could check it out and let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it! http://pastebin.com/sRq7VBjy
notes like these are great, do more!
 

ConnorTheKid

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Thanks everyone :)

Someone asked me a few months back on my ask.fm on Peach v. Fox. I figured I'd share my answer too.
http://pastebin.com/1yaG87r0

Once I'm done with finals I might look into writing more about Peach vs the other high tiers.
 

Xyzz

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Nair where Luigi tries to ledgedash.
They can upsmash you for that (or do whatever else they want).

Could of course try and see how precise their LD is, in a situation where their retaliation won't be too absurd (wouldn't do it past the up-b kill threshold).

This is not something I would really put in notes about weegee; it's either something to keep in mind in general, or specifically against characters like Marth, who is legitimately troubled by it, since he doesn't really have options that beat this.

that came of way too negative; thanks for sharing your notes, I actually agree with most of them, and found a new tidbit of information (the double jab on fox part; I rarely go for those. I will usually try some cheese like jab > grab / jab > dsmash, since I try to disrupt something with the first jab and don't expect their response to be frametight)
 
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CAUP

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I think I found some new Peach tech. And it's not utterly useless. :p

I KOed someone with it in match :D

I currently don't have a GameCube but when I do expect a guide.
 

Calzum!

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Anybody got any tips regarding peach vs Samus? I seem to make it a lot harder for myself then it should be and it's before one of my worst matchups, any help bruhs?
 

Oaty

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Anybody got any tips regarding peach vs Samus? I seem to make it a lot harder for myself then it should be and it's before one of my worst matchups, any help bruhs?
I think you have to be more specific. Just saying I need help in a MU too vague imo. What do you specifically struggle with against Samus?
 

WIDL

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I was messing around just now, and I came to think of something. I rarely use up-b to escape pressure, because I never seem to actually hit or benefit from it. What I noticed is that before leaving the ground, Peach holds her umbrella behind her, and I thought "does it have a hitbox?" - and apparently it does.



(from this thread)

Is it better for Peach to simply reverse parasol out of shield to actually hit the one pressuring you? I guess parasol is kinda situational, but I wanna try and understand it more.
 

CAUP

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Yeah it is! Huh! That explains why Armada always reverse parasols out of shield.
 

AozoraX

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How does anyone deal with Sheik still... When Sheiks are shorthop fairing can I actually get under there with a nair in time? Should I run away? Should I run up and sheild and get a grab?

Sheik general matchup tips appreciated
 

The PikMan

Smash Cadet
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Sheik's aerial mobility isn't actually that great. Figure out your opponent's spacing then start WD'ing back -> D-tiliting them for free combos. Instafloat nair/dash attack is good sometimes but you also run the risk of unfavorable trades so I prefer the former.
 

AozoraX

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Sheik's aerial mobility isn't actually that great. Figure out your opponent's spacing then start WD'ing back -> D-tiliting them for free combos. Instafloat nair/dash attack is good sometimes but you also run the risk of unfavorable trades so I prefer the former.
This matchup is mega tough. What can I do when I have a turnip and the sheik just makes a nairplane through it? Should I stay grounded and throw it as a best case scenario?
 

knightpraetor

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defense > offense vs sheik. turnips > needles. incrementally take space. if you know the sheik is going to nair through your turnip, why are you close enough when the nair hits the turnip that you get hit too. The very fact that you managed to force the sheik to nair should be a free win in neutral. space better or toss earlier. if you didn't have time to toss then you either A. pulled a turnip at the wrong time, or B. should have been moving back to dodge before tossing.

abusing sheik's lack of aerial mobility is really strong but you need to have her pinned at a ledge or get her to approach to really maximize this.
 

CAUP

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Yo! I posted the guide I was talking about! New peach tech! Crazy I know!
 

ConnorTheKid

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I'm hoping to get access to a good laptop to do match analyses on sometime this week. Even though we're probably the same skill level, I'll go over your match Widl :)
 

LifeMakesMeLOL

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Does anybody have any tips for dealing with spacie pressure? I get horribly overwhelmed against good Foxes and Falcos, I just honestly have no idea what to do once I get caught in shine combos, Falco especially. It usually turns into this float camp heavy game that takes over five minutes because 80% of the match is me just trying to gain some stage control back. Pretty much the only times I can win the neutral is when they accidentally CC my Dsmash or when I (rarely) manage to chaingrab them long enough to trick them into DIing wrong for a Fthrow.

Normally I try to just space with bair or retreating fair since most spacies here are aggressive and will come to me anyways (and being Peach I don't have to worry about laser camping ****os), which works fine against the bad/mediocre players, but the better players are not even phased by it and just ****ing nair through everything. I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing (still pretty inexperienced in the MUs), but I really want to improve so any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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