VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[DavemanCozy]

Hey guys, I need some help vs Fox in a certain way.
Often I find myself being trapped or walled out by bairs with no way to get past, it bites through turnips and all approaches.
How do I get around this - especially when I'm trapped on the side of a stage like YS? It's such severe option coverage...

If Fox is doing B-airs to you while on-stage, then position yourself a little bit above Fox (but not directly above him, otherwise you'll get hit with B-air or, worse, Up-air) and use your own spaced aerials. You can space yourself by weaving in and out with Peach's float, at worst you'll be trading hits with him. Good aerials to use are N-air and B-air since they're quick, but if you're facing him you can also use F-air (spacing it is tricky but do-able). You can actually do the same thing to him but better by creating your own walls of B-air, since Peach can float away and control her air movement much better.

If he's doing B-air walls to edge-guard though, things get much trickier when you're off-stage, you have to play mindgames. If you're going to get hit by B-air, always DI up and away at low percentages, up and towards at high percentages, so that you're not sent directly towards the blast zones on the sides: Peach will live a lot longer this way and you'll be coming down from a higher height, hopefully high enough that Fox can't chase you efficiently. Always try to keep your double jump and float, it's better to take the hit and DI it than to try to avoid it only to get hit and be sent off-stage without them. When you're coming back on-stage, you can also use your float to weave in and out to play mindgames with N-air or F-air (again, if you're comfortable spacing it), or you can simply use your superior air movement to avoid Fox altogether and land on a platform or grab the ledge, depending on the situation.

 

[knightpraetor]

hey does anyone know where armada did that combo where you carry the fox off the stage with repeated nairs? i think you hit somehow with the weak hitbox of nair with them DIing in so you can continuously carry them. If someone could find the video for me or explain how and at what percent to go for this combo, i would be much appreciative.

 

[Jam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgaGdpxvI0Y
Is this the one you mean? If so, I don't think it's the weak nair, I think it's just situational depending on percent and di of the fox, could be wrong though. For example, I think I've been able to do this on a cpu fox with the regular strong nair and whatever the cpu's di was.

 

[MacD]

my peach tutorial came out. go learn stuff YAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNgmahChOM

 

[CAUP]

I never knew the double jump cancelled landing thing. That's amazing! It will be integrated into my game from now on. Why doesn't Armada use it? It's so easy lol

 

[Jam]

Doesn't it require really precise timing though (difficult with landing on a platform)? If you miss it then you double jump up. Another use I've seen for it are out of shield, such as to do a down smash out of shield (could be anything). I've had issues, lacking tech skill for it I guess with down smash out of shield, but anyway that's what I saw on this thread.

 

[CAUP]

It's really easy to do, way easier then wavedashing in my opinion

 

[knightpraetor]

hey does anyone know if landing after a float canceled bair at the ledge hits any lower than just float cancelling bair at the lowest height and remaining floating?

 

[dkuo]

small question that isnt super important but is the hitstun of dtilt vs grounded opponents due to it being a meteor attack?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Pretty sure that's the case, Dkuo. A lot of moves that send downward like that have a lot of stun like her dtilt (Falcon stomp is a good example). That's at least my best "Melee intuition" guess.

EDIT: KP, the first option does indeed hit lower, after a decent amount of testing.

 

[AozoraX]

So these instant double jump landings... Do you just mash the jump button extremely fast?

 

[CAUP]

No, just timing. It's not hard. Try it some. The most difficult thing is adjusting to the various platform heights.

Suggestions:
1) Pracitce of FoD when the platforms are changing
2) Imgine an invisible hitbox near the hym of Peach's dress and try to press jump when it touches the platform

Hope that helps!

 

[DavemanCozy]

Double jump landing is like wavedashing, you gotta learn the timing but not difficult to do once you practice enough and get it.

Here are two ways that I know how to do it:

• The way I do it is by positioning my thumb on top of the X and Y buttons, with my thumb's joint on the X button and the end of my thumb on the Y button. Then I press:
  ->
• Other Peach players have told me they do it this way though, because it leaves their right thumb free to use:
  or->

Whichever way you choose, or if you find a more comfortable solution that fits you better, there is no such thing as "the wrong way."

EDIT: this is for doing it in the ground. If you're rising on a platform, the timing varies depending on the stage: note that Yoshi's Story and Pokemon Stadium have low platforms, Battlefield has medium platforms, Dreamland has high platforms, and FoD varies.

I think that @ CAUP 's suggestion to practice on FoD is a great idea.

 

[knightpraetor]

thanks shroudedone. Now I have to make some hard decisions about when to use the one that hits lower, because if you do indeed miss you are at higher risk of being punished.

 

[tauKhan]

small question that isnt super important but is the hitstun of dtilt vs grounded opponents due to it being a meteor attack?

In a way, yes. When a move that sends at below 0° hits a grounded character and causes tumble, a ground bounce occurs. The ground bounce mirrors the launch angle relative to x-axis and reduces the characters velocity by some proportion. (1/3 IIRC). However, the hitstun is calclulated from the original kb and not from the reduced velocity, and thus the character has more stun relative to the velocity and is easier to combo because of that.

The reduced velocity also makes it easier to tech spikes when grounded.

 

[MacD]

to DJ land from the ground i just push X twice real fast

 

[ElectricCitrus]

MacD I loved your video! It helped me a lot. I just have a question for you--well any Peach player--what's a good strat for getting around the Ice Climbers? I know the matchup is technically supposed to be one of Peach's best, but I just can't ever seem to beat any ICs.

Is it just something simple like pressuring their sheild with like a Dair or is there something more to it?

 

[Zero Suit Dominic]

I don't know if this has been asked already, but how should you deal with a Captain Falcon who is knee crazy?

 

[DavemanCozy]

I don't know if this has been asked already, but how should you deal with a Captain Falcon who is knee crazy?

Get him off-stage as fast as possible. Peach can edge-guard Falcon like crazy.

In regards to knees, always, always DI away from him when he D-throws you or knocks you away. Falcon is one of the few characters with the movement to chase Peach, but he shouldn't be hitting you with electric knees if you DI properly (although you might be getting hit with soft-knees, but that's no big deal).

As for approaching him... don't. Don't go chasing him all over the stage: he's faster than you. Instead, you want to bait him; Peach has veggies, N-air, B-air, etc. to create walls and force him to get close.

 

[DoH]

New DoH vids!

vs DP (Falco)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGsOuOrQv4&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

vs Plank (Sheik)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v7rZBkwSHg&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

vs Chillin (Fox)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qioAN6COFy0&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

vs Nintendude (ICs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enj6V_xxaPo&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

How should I be using fair? I find myself using bair to space and nair to approach more. Nair even seems to be a better kill move than fair. If I use a FC fair to approach, I just find myself getting punished because of its startup lag.
In my practice recently, I find myself using fair less and less -- if I'm missing something I want to learn sooner rather than later.

 

[Xyzz]

If the opponent intercepts your fair start up, nair is definitely a solid replacement.

The thing about fairs is setting them up in a way, where your opponent has a tough time doing just that. If in doubt, simply begin the move quite far away and adjust the movement you take once (time of letting go of the float, fast fall, aerial drift) based on what they're doing.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

Alright, but does fair have many advantages over nair or bair?

 

[Xyzz]

Fair has stupidly good hitboxes, and at early percents it has significantly more knockback than nair (so it is safer on hit).

 

[DoH]

If you fair their shield it is a guaranteed grab

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

Alrighty then, I guess I'm going to have to add fair spacing to the list of things to practice :3

 

[john!]

it's only guaranteed grab if you land right away after it hits

 

[tauKhan]

If you fair their shield it is a guaranteed grab

Unless they are samus, yoshi or bowser... or if they decide to spotdodge.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

Unless they are samus, yoshi or bowser... or if they decide to spotdodge.

I assume that shieldstun prevents them from spotdodging.

 

[Xyzz]

FC Nair / fair have the same amount of landing lag, and a negligible difference in damage dealt (fresh fair is 15, nair is 14 iirc), and thus a negligible difference in frame advantage on block. To be precise, both fresh nair and fair are +4 on block, it's just that fair stays that way a little longer.

You can nair grab just as well as you can fair grab.

A frame advantage of +4 means, your grab hits on the third frame of their attempted response. That means you can barely catch rolls before they turn invulnerable, but can't catch spot dodges, unless they don't buffer it and are less good in their execution than you are (unlikely).

 

[DoH]

Nair you have to hit with the strong part of the nair, which is her chest, which means you have to be closer. Fair is safer because you can do it from a distance away and still get the grab.

Also I think people are generally afraid to spot dodge vs Peach because of down smash, so that's less likely that'll be an option.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

That makes sense, thanks, guys :3

 

[JarJarBinks]

How do you guys deal with platform camping? Against the faster characters I find it really hard to beat them if they're camping really hard. Especially if they have a really good projectile like Falco lasers.

 

[Meredy]

How do you guys deal with platform camping? Against the faster characters I find it really hard to beat them if they're camping really hard. Especially if they have a really good projectile like Falco lasers.

If you're ahead, honestly just let them do it. Chances are they'll stop because they won't want the game to timeout and give you a free win. If you're behind (or neutral), try to see where they're gonna go next and intercept them, either with a turnip or a Fair. Turnips are a great tool against platform campers. Against Falco, try to powershield his lasers and then take advantage of the hitstun to get him away from the platforms.

 

[DavemanCozy]

How do you guys deal with platform camping? Against the faster characters I find it really hard to beat them if they're camping really hard. Especially if they have a really good projectile like Falco lasers.

Against Falco specificially, you can do what Meredyse said and powershield his lasers: the timing gets getting used to, but it's possible to master. Another (safer) thing you can do follow VaNz's advice in the OP and float-camp him: there are specific float heights in every stage that Falco has a hard time shooting Peach at. The most important thing is don't get angry if you get hit with a laser: instead, focus on how you can avoid it next, whether it's by shielding, jumping over it, or floating over it (or STOP floating at that height and fall back down, etc). Peach has all the tools to avoid Falco's lasers on most occasions.

As soon as Falco starts getting close to you though, that's when you throw out a well spaced aerial: usually a good bash in his face with her crown (Fair) works well, Nair and Bair are good too

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

There are a couple of Samus mains in my area, something I noticed when playing against them is that my aerials seemed to have priority over her missiles? So do I just weave my way through the missiles to get to Samus, and then **** her up?

 

[Xyzz]

Our aerials negating them seems pretty reasonable in comparison when you have a look at Ness destroying them with a friggin headbutt (:
And you're partly correct. You weave your way through the missiles, yes. But you don't **** her up, but rather knock her away and then keep doing that for 7 minutes. Screw that matchup ... :D

 

[DoH]

All of Peach's moves except for ftilt and dtilt beat missile. It's a pretty easy matchup

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

It's just weird for me because it's different from everything else that I've played. It wasn't until recently when I started going to tournaments that I ever played against a good Samus, so I have to adjust to that.

 

[john!]

if you don't have crazy falco laser powershielding reflexes like DoH does, then samus is actually pretty annoying