The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
So who's going to rom?
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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)
- Thread starter Cia
- Start date
crush
Smash Master
not me 
Cia
das kwl
I'm not going to RoM this year. I think I would have done really well too. For like 6 months, I've only placed in the top 3 at tournaments (large and small)
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
thats to bad vanz . Have really have been doing very well as of late, like at the big house
Some good news for me is that if I get a job at the apple store I am applying for I should be able to come to more NY tourneys in the future which would be cool. (now I just got to hope i get the job, and dont embarrass myself at tourneys)
. Have really have been doing very well as of late, like at the big houseSome good news for me is that if I get a job at the apple store I am applying for I should be able to come to more NY tourneys in the future which would be cool. (now I just got to hope i get the job, and dont embarrass myself at tourneys)
Cia
das kwl
thats to bad vanz
Some good news for me is that if I get a job at the apple store I am applying for I should be able to come to more NY tourneys in the future which would be cool. (now I just got to hope i get the job, and dont embarrass myself at tourneys)
The Apple Store on 57th? that would be amazing. That's like the Apple store capitol of the world. lol
Palpi
Smash Hero
yo mafia, lets play some friendlies at ROM!! :D
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
no i live on LI, so it would be hopefully the one at the Roosevelt field mall or the one at the americana (aka the Miracle mile). This is assuming/hoping I get the job.
crush
Smash Master
Palpi
Smash Hero
YES HE IS! I am leaving to pick him up in like 3 minutes. See everyone there
He's a ****ing champ.
He's a ****ing champ.
CK Momentum
Smash Apprentice
Palpi, I heard you got 2nd in your pool. Me too :3 Good luck tomorrow!
-Mafia
-Mafia
Wake
Smash Master
Sooo Bluezaft is good against Peach Just got second at a local. I lost to Bluezaft twice (Marth player)... he's the first Marth I've had significant trouble with haha siiiggghh
Just got second at a local. I lost to Bluezaft twice (Marth player)... he's the first Marth I've had significant trouble with haha siiiggghh
baka4moé
Smash Champion
i thought bluezaft was in texas? did he move?
Palpi
Smash Hero
Thanks man, you too. Lets definitely play today.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Haha you enjoy playing bluezaft. I played him for about 5 years
Also has anyone seen my matches on the live stream?
Also has anyone seen my matches on the live stream?
MacD
Banned via Administration
i heard you SD'd a lot
and you died to zelda in like 5 seconds
but i was in the middle of a game of league so i didn't get to watch
and you died to zelda in like 5 seconds
but i was in the middle of a game of league so i didn't get to watch
VA
Smash Hero
I haven't been keeping up with thigns, but did you really quit smash to play LoL?
MacD
Banned via Administration
yea man
got a tourney in an hour and a half!!!!!!
we got this, except we have a sub and our top is playing mid and it's just a jumbled mess, BUT WHATEVER!!!!!
got a tourney in an hour and a half!!!!!!
we got this, except we have a sub and our top is playing mid and it's just a jumbled mess, BUT WHATEVER!!!!!
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
DoH, I saw some of your matches on the stream. That Zelda...I forget his name, but he seems really legit. Also, you did SD quite a bit. But you were doing well despite that, I thought.
EDIT: The Zelda was DJ Talent.
EDIT: The Zelda was DJ Talent.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Dj talent is the lake. I still didn't lose to a Zelda ;-)
NY crowds are hella annoying
NY crowds are hella annoying
Triple R
Smash Lord
I'm so mad at you for losing to him lolSooo Bluezaft is good against Peach
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Get 'em DoH!
NY crowds are annoying as ****.
NY crowds are annoying as ****.
Wake
Smash Master
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
DJ Talent is TheLake? That explains so much, but I was really hoping that that was another Zelda.
And you were fighting Tristate, DoH. The crowd was really annoying, I could tell from the stream, but honestly, it was to be expected. *shrug* We should all just move to Sweden.
And you were fighting Tristate, DoH. The crowd was really annoying, I could tell from the stream, but honestly, it was to be expected. *shrug* We should all just move to Sweden.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
I got 9th. Lost to jman and azen
baka4moé
Smash Champion
Wake
Smash Master
Azen has been playing... I've heard at least.
Quaz
Smash Master
Nice job beating Sanchaz, wake. I actually can't beat him at all anymore =(
john!
Smash Hero
which character did sanchaz use against you wake?
Wake
Smash Master
Sanchaz went Fox the first 2 games and then Sheik the last game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpcJOreSAxY
Here's the set. It was LF. Critique it.
Also, here's me getting absolutely destroyed by Bluezaft... who beat both Sanchaz and I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a3I7y4z_GY
HALP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpcJOreSAxY
Here's the set. It was LF. Critique it.
Also, here's me getting absolutely destroyed by Bluezaft... who beat both Sanchaz and I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a3I7y4z_GY
HALP
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Cool, Wake. I need to watch some Peach after having my mind blown by RoM WFs/GFs just now...goodness....
john!
Smash Hero
your peach is hella fast. i'm gonna have to try some of these tricksies next time i play sanchaz. good stuff
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
yo wake your peach is legit. Also when i critique things i only give negitive comments so dont think i didnt really like your peach.
I dont have much to say but at times u seemed to get into a mode where u tried doing like 3 or 4 dash attacks in a row and that often got punished. Another thing is even through your movement is great i almost felt there where times when not moving was a better option, like the other guy would make a mistake but u were to busy wavedashing away to punish (this is really not a big issue and might not be a issue at all).
Fighting marth is weird, He is a MU were 50% of the time i wreck him and the other 50% i get wrecked. but imo try not to go into the air while fighting marth, also try to stay just right outside his range unless u want to pull a turnip. Plus once u r at a high enough % where u cant be comboed by marth try to play as safe as possible, b/c he has a lot of trouble getting the kill on peach (this is something u did on your last stock which let u survive to very high % and bring it back to a 1 stock game). I almost feel like most of the match against marth is moving away and shielding things until u find a way in but i dont consider myself a expert at all in that MU. (not my best critique ever but I am a little out of it today)
on a different topic: I think we should talk more about shield dropping, and how it is useful for peach and just stuff about that tech
I dont have much to say but at times u seemed to get into a mode where u tried doing like 3 or 4 dash attacks in a row and that often got punished. Another thing is even through your movement is great i almost felt there where times when not moving was a better option, like the other guy would make a mistake but u were to busy wavedashing away to punish (this is really not a big issue and might not be a issue at all).
Fighting marth is weird, He is a MU were 50% of the time i wreck him and the other 50% i get wrecked. but imo try not to go into the air while fighting marth, also try to stay just right outside his range unless u want to pull a turnip. Plus once u r at a high enough % where u cant be comboed by marth try to play as safe as possible, b/c he has a lot of trouble getting the kill on peach (this is something u did on your last stock which let u survive to very high % and bring it back to a 1 stock game). I almost feel like most of the match against marth is moving away and shielding things until u find a way in but i dont consider myself a expert at all in that MU. (not my best critique ever but I am a little out of it today)
on a different topic: I think we should talk more about shield dropping, and how it is useful for peach and just stuff about that tech
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
My sets vs jman, dj Nintendo, tope, and Azen were all recorded today
Wake
Smash Master
Oh don't worry. Tear me apart. This is the first time I've had a lot of trouble against Marth... I 3 stocked a Marth right before this so I really want to know what I was doing so badly to get owned like this hahaha
... and I missed the end of ROM... boo.
... and I missed the end of ROM... boo.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
lol i dont worry about digging in to people and telling them where they made mistakes, I just dont want u to think I didnt like your peach b/c i really liked how it looked/played. (I like to make sure people understand its not a personal thing nor am I insulting your peach. All it is is me only commenting on the mistakes b/c u dont need to fix what u did right)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Only watched the matches vs Fox.
You're really good at the fair edgeguard.
You pull turnips at inopportune times during edgeguards. Judge their stun time a bit better; pulling a turnip opens up the chance to cover another option or options that would otherwise be unavailable, but they take a full second to pull. This means you need the opponent stunned long enough for you to pull the veggie and then position. Many times, you pull the turnip and the opponent recovers out of stun before you even get to the 'positioning' part. If you're giving up on gimps and using the veggie to improve your likelihood of getting successful ledge-pressure then that's another matter entirely, but I think it's a mistake to not go for gimps against Fox & Falco. Those low percent KOs make life so much easier.
You could WD back oos to space yourself out of certain zones more; it's better for beating platform dropped & run off (or waveland off) platform aerials than shield grab (against people that hit the l-cancel; also, evading his move generally gives you better returns anyway and it's one of the few chances you'll have to down tilt against Fox; down smash is often worth more than grab too).
You need to DI the up throw more consistently. A lot of these throws he can legitimately combo off of, but he's missing it because he doesn't seem to know the timing. Again, this wasn't a huge issue this time, but against better players (and in general) it will pay off to learn to DI the throw. If you DI the throw, Fox has no legitimate 100% guaranteed combo from it on you. You will still be hit, but you put a lot more pressure on them to make good decisions and better technical proficiency, among other things.
Pay more attention to how the opponent is defending. I feel you dash attack and jump above them with aerials backwards. This may just be your opponent staying a step ahead of your offense, which is plausible, but you really have to work a bit more at recognizing behavioral patterns (try thinking about why the opponent is doing what they're doing; I find it helps me a lot). Or, alternatively, do tighter things that demand more precision but cover extra options & require more precision / recognition skills by your opponent to escape. Whichever. As a general tip, I think you could probably grab more.
You're really good at the fair edgeguard.
You pull turnips at inopportune times during edgeguards. Judge their stun time a bit better; pulling a turnip opens up the chance to cover another option or options that would otherwise be unavailable, but they take a full second to pull. This means you need the opponent stunned long enough for you to pull the veggie and then position. Many times, you pull the turnip and the opponent recovers out of stun before you even get to the 'positioning' part. If you're giving up on gimps and using the veggie to improve your likelihood of getting successful ledge-pressure then that's another matter entirely, but I think it's a mistake to not go for gimps against Fox & Falco. Those low percent KOs make life so much easier.
You could WD back oos to space yourself out of certain zones more; it's better for beating platform dropped & run off (or waveland off) platform aerials than shield grab (against people that hit the l-cancel; also, evading his move generally gives you better returns anyway and it's one of the few chances you'll have to down tilt against Fox; down smash is often worth more than grab too).
You need to DI the up throw more consistently. A lot of these throws he can legitimately combo off of, but he's missing it because he doesn't seem to know the timing. Again, this wasn't a huge issue this time, but against better players (and in general) it will pay off to learn to DI the throw. If you DI the throw, Fox has no legitimate 100% guaranteed combo from it on you. You will still be hit, but you put a lot more pressure on them to make good decisions and better technical proficiency, among other things.
Pay more attention to how the opponent is defending. I feel you dash attack and jump above them with aerials backwards. This may just be your opponent staying a step ahead of your offense, which is plausible, but you really have to work a bit more at recognizing behavioral patterns (try thinking about why the opponent is doing what they're doing; I find it helps me a lot). Or, alternatively, do tighter things that demand more precision but cover extra options & require more precision / recognition skills by your opponent to escape. Whichever. As a general tip, I think you could probably grab more.
Wake
Smash Master
Ahh thanks a lot! It makes sense watching the games again myself too. The turnip thing is just me messing up, yeah, not really giving up on gimps, not purposefully at least. It's just at inappropriate times, like you said.
And the grabbing thing... ugh. I literally have to tell myself to grab, or I'll completely forget. I don't even know why...
And the grabbing thing... ugh. I literally have to tell myself to grab, or I'll completely forget. I don't even know why...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
ShroudedOne, I finally got around to that critique although I noticed different things the second time I watched it. It's like 3 weeks old so I dunno if this will help but here it is anyway:
First thing is a MU specific thing: I don't like how you float against Falcon for extended periods because I feel it leaves you open. I think against Falcon, you want to be grounded so you can crouch into down smash, dash attack through his stuff, move more quickly (because position is so important against him), and block. Jumping & floating around a lot seems to beg him for an aerial exchange, which I think generally favours him because range, speed, & knee are an effective mix. Aerials aren't bad by any means, but I think your positioning should generally be done from the ground (and then you transition into aerials and kind of pop up with them and trade with a nair or beat it 'cuz you stuff it or get under it; but if you float, you're too slow & limited to really do any of that).
More general stuff from here on out. Your edgeguarding needs to be more efficient. Against most characters you can just combo soft aerial > strong aerial at high-medium percents, or strong aerial > strong aerial at low percents. If they go low, get back onstage and prepare to aerial more (or take the edge if it's Sheik or something). Turnips are good, but they're mostly useful for stopping certain options & killing horizontal momentum when they're too far; you're using them where you should be doing aerials (aerials >> turnips in KB).
You pull turnips at inopportune times during edgeguards. See my post to Wake for more information.
You don't seem to really understand when the time to combo is, or what to combo with. Up smash, strong uair, and stuff after like 80%+ is not good. I generally stop my "launch" combos with Peach's strong moves around like 70% because they have too much KB to ensure a follow; if you want to combo at those medium-high percents (70%+) you need to either do jank, horizontal stuff with weak aerials, or accept that it's gonna be a two-step and that your goal should be to put the opponent off the level so you can edgeguard and go from there.
Your move accuracy in general is really low. You don't need to throw out so many moves; you can just wait, move around, and try to look for a good position sometimes. There's a lot of stuff available by NOT doing moves constantly. It also gives the opponent more to think about because the options & vulnerabilities change profoundly when you're not committed. Obviously you have to defend your zones sometimes, but finding out when you can get away with not doing that because you can look for positional advantage or whatever can be really useful.
You jab in combos where jab is not needed to create a follow (sometimes). Jab should not generally be used in combos except in resets and when you can't link anything else. You risk dropping the combo by jabbing; if you can just down smash or whatever then do so. It's guaranteed damage. Sometimes jab will lead to a bullcrap grab that you wouldn't get otherwise (which can be worth a lot more than down smash on occasion) but that takes some situation-recognition and conditioning; the way you're currently doing it does not meet that criteria.
I think you need to throw them off the level more when they're shielding near the edge, rather than jabbing their shield. Either that or just do more aerials so you can cover the roll if they try it. Whichever. You have a tendency of jabbing their shield when you're deep inside their shield. If you're that far in, you might as well down smash or grab (depending on how low your FC was, or how convinced you are they'll hold block). Jab is only safe if it's spaced.
Against this guy specifically, you could parasol-stall more when you're on the edge. He stands really close to the edge; if they do that just up+B stall, hit him away, and then get up from there in some way. The way you're currently doing it involves you ledgehopping into his arms a lot, which is bad.
First thing is a MU specific thing: I don't like how you float against Falcon for extended periods because I feel it leaves you open. I think against Falcon, you want to be grounded so you can crouch into down smash, dash attack through his stuff, move more quickly (because position is so important against him), and block. Jumping & floating around a lot seems to beg him for an aerial exchange, which I think generally favours him because range, speed, & knee are an effective mix. Aerials aren't bad by any means, but I think your positioning should generally be done from the ground (and then you transition into aerials and kind of pop up with them and trade with a nair or beat it 'cuz you stuff it or get under it; but if you float, you're too slow & limited to really do any of that).
More general stuff from here on out. Your edgeguarding needs to be more efficient. Against most characters you can just combo soft aerial > strong aerial at high-medium percents, or strong aerial > strong aerial at low percents. If they go low, get back onstage and prepare to aerial more (or take the edge if it's Sheik or something). Turnips are good, but they're mostly useful for stopping certain options & killing horizontal momentum when they're too far; you're using them where you should be doing aerials (aerials >> turnips in KB).
You pull turnips at inopportune times during edgeguards. See my post to Wake for more information.
You don't seem to really understand when the time to combo is, or what to combo with. Up smash, strong uair, and stuff after like 80%+ is not good. I generally stop my "launch" combos with Peach's strong moves around like 70% because they have too much KB to ensure a follow; if you want to combo at those medium-high percents (70%+) you need to either do jank, horizontal stuff with weak aerials, or accept that it's gonna be a two-step and that your goal should be to put the opponent off the level so you can edgeguard and go from there.
Your move accuracy in general is really low. You don't need to throw out so many moves; you can just wait, move around, and try to look for a good position sometimes. There's a lot of stuff available by NOT doing moves constantly. It also gives the opponent more to think about because the options & vulnerabilities change profoundly when you're not committed. Obviously you have to defend your zones sometimes, but finding out when you can get away with not doing that because you can look for positional advantage or whatever can be really useful.
You jab in combos where jab is not needed to create a follow (sometimes). Jab should not generally be used in combos except in resets and when you can't link anything else. You risk dropping the combo by jabbing; if you can just down smash or whatever then do so. It's guaranteed damage. Sometimes jab will lead to a bullcrap grab that you wouldn't get otherwise (which can be worth a lot more than down smash on occasion) but that takes some situation-recognition and conditioning; the way you're currently doing it does not meet that criteria.
I think you need to throw them off the level more when they're shielding near the edge, rather than jabbing their shield. Either that or just do more aerials so you can cover the roll if they try it. Whichever. You have a tendency of jabbing their shield when you're deep inside their shield. If you're that far in, you might as well down smash or grab (depending on how low your FC was, or how convinced you are they'll hold block). Jab is only safe if it's spaced.
Against this guy specifically, you could parasol-stall more when you're on the edge. He stands really close to the edge; if they do that just up+B stall, hit him away, and then get up from there in some way. The way you're currently doing it involves you ledgehopping into his arms a lot, which is bad.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Why thanks, KK. It kept changing as I was reading it, but I think I got all of it. Some of these things are things that I notice in battle, but I don't take note of. Like the issue with the turnips, or the jabs (I have been trying to tell myself to jab more, because I feel like this is good for stopping momentum and getting grabs, but I get shield grabbed a lot, so I should be a lot better about that).
I do need to learn when to use turnips, and when not to. I mean, in theory, I know when, but I need to apply that in-game.
I'm going to rewatch the video while looking over this, so I can visualize what you're saying. But it all makes sense. Thank you very much, KK! I appreciate the in-depth critique.
I do need to learn when to use turnips, and when not to. I mean, in theory, I know when, but I need to apply that in-game.
I'm going to rewatch the video while looking over this, so I can visualize what you're saying. But it all makes sense. Thank you very much, KK! I appreciate the in-depth critique.