Hey Panda, you haven't seen me in tourney for a while but I'd like to let you know that after Warsaw in September I've switched to be a Marth main, sometimes switching out to Pika against MK's. So I know a lot more about this matchup than I used to, especially since my friend Rookie uses Snake. But anyway Panda, I don't know why but Ankoku didn't use DB on the first stock ONCE, when it's crucial that you do so against Snake, among other things like Shaya said Marth should never get his fair shieldgrabbed in this matchup and I saw him getting hit by a lot of C4, just being careless. Used way too many smash attacks against Snake I almost never use any smash attacks unless I know I can get in a tipper Dsmash to punish, or if I'm using usmash underneath platform to mix up juggling but even then it's kind of risky, although if you hit their shield and they fall off the platform you can always tipper dsmash in time from my own experiences.
55/45 is still considered neutral. Care to explain why Snake has adv. on Marth? I would like you to talk about Marth's juggle game for a minute and tell me how you as Snake get around it. I guess I'll go ahead and give you the courtesy of explaining what I do against Snake's first though. Here are some of Snake's options:
1. Aerials - Outranged/outprioritized by Marth's uair, though watch out for a quick bair. Don't be in a position to be hit by it before you can attack.
So aerials are generally a bad choice if you're just falling down and don't want to get hit again.
2. Drop a C4 at some point - All that does is forces Marth to either stay away from the C4, or to stay grounded. If Marth sees the C4 and stays grounded Snake may try to set it off, and depending on the height of the C4 Marth will either jump above it and punish Snake during his C4 trigger animation or just dash away from it and tipper fair/bair Snake out of the C4's way. Dropping a C4 is good help, but doesn't do a lot on its own to keep Marth away.
3. Time an airdodge/Pull out 'nade - These are the only other two things Snake can really do above Marth, if Marth hits Snake right as he pulls out the grenade there's a good chance of trading explosion hits which is usually in Snake's favor UNLESS Marth perfectly spaces a uair so as to hit Snake's feet, then the grenade just falls down. Also while I believe Snake can airdodge to drop a grenade, he has no other options other than to throw his grenade so he becomes very easily predictable. If I think Snake is going to pull a grenade I wait until I'm at max double jump tipper uair range and do it to punish him, otherwise if he just airdodges I should still at least hit him. Also, as a general rule if Snake is visible on screen (kinda close to the ground) above Marth and he pulls out a grenade, while this does limit Marth's ability to juggle Snake with his aerials, it does allow Marth to get a free grab because close to the ground all Snake can do is airdodge or throw the grenade, and has no way of avoiding a grab in this scenario. Combine all of this with the fact that if you're off the edge you'll be eating LOTS of fairs, and you'll see Snake getting the damage racked on him quickly.
Honestly I would call this 55/45 Snake at best, at worst I would call it even. I give Snake the tip end though because he can pressure Marth from across the stage and is really hard to KO. However the fact that Marth can punish Snake upon shielding any of Snake's attacks and Snake can't easily do this in return, the fact that Marth can match Snake's ground range, and Marth's ability to severely limit Snake's safe options in the air all do much to make up for Snake's strengths.
EDIT: Some more thoughts:
If Marth lands from an aerial against Snake's shield Marth has to do a retreating DB or just shield to get out of the way of the snakedash, but if Marth plays it correctly he is safe.
Marth gains more vertical jump from his ledge jump than with his normal grounded jump, so on stages like FD or Smashville or wherever you don't have a platform to reach Snake quicker this is a great surprise option, I find myself often touching the ledge and mixing up between doing that and just getting back on the stage.
Cancelling Marth's DB if Snake shields is crucial because if you start DB at max range and he shields you're probably safe in your shield or with a dtilt if you just let go, however its bad to keep it going even if you're behind him because if you're too close Snake can punish with shield dropped reverse ftilt. If Marth keeps it going Snake's shield will probably be able to take all of the hits and it also brings you right next to him, allowing Snake to punish with whatever he wants. Marth needs to remember that his third green hit pulls him back a tad and also needs to remember that sometimes near the edge it's a good idea to keep it going slowly and use the 4th green hit because it will either poke through Snake's shield or the multiple hits will just push Snake's shield off the edge, which is not where Snake needs to be.
Panda, now I know this is going to sound obvious but one of the most important things you need to remember when Marth is recovering is his up B delay after grabbing the edge, this KILLS Marth, I saw one point at about 20 seconds in that video where he had this delay and you didn't go up there and punish, not sure why but always always make sure that is on your mind.
EDIT AGAIN: Also Havokk I think I saw you talking about Snake's landmines (dsmash) and that Marth can't easily get rid of them, I just wanna make sure you know that any character can run up and powershield the explosion. It makes mines much less effective, so bad that it's almost not worth thinking about unless they're busy trying to recover.
and mention its from a D3's perspective)
