The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Meru.]

deliberate drunk-looking post is deliberate?

Probably not. But he's almost sober.

EDIT: What are you guys actually doing here? Isn't t midnight there? o.o

 

[phi1ny3]

They're Aussie people...

Like you know, they have a weird timezone, and they grow fangs, and howl at the moon, and turn into bats, and make mysterious famines, and all that?

Aussies have to be burned with silver stakes, tru fax.

 

[Nixernator]

let me tell you noob babies about peah, Peach is a beast. people need toi under sand that. i am sick and tured if youpeople down grading peach man. You have all hen peach players in the backrrom for what? seriously for what. fools can't even get **** right.....

peach is the truth. you ****ers need to undertsgand that.

I'm sure this is a wonderful post and contributes much to the current discussion. But seriously...


Lolwut.

Whoever said no multihit attacks is a bad thing is dumb. Multi hit is bad as technically every single one can be SDI'd out of and retaliated against. Or at least avoided. Good example is pika's Dsmash, it would be a good move but everyone and their Mum just SDI's and avoids it.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Probably not. But he's almost sober.

EDIT: What are you guys actually doing here? Isn't t midnight there? o.o

They probably all wanted to have the first tier list related post of the decade or something. Like they do on GameFAQs.

let me tell you noob babies about peah, Peach is a beast. people need toi under sand that. i am sick and tured if youpeople down grading peach man. You have all hen peach players in the backrrom for what? seriously for what. fools can't even get **** right.....

peach is the truth. you ****ers need to undertsgand that.

How is that w word NOT censored? So where do you think Peach ought to be? Because I don't see her rising more than one or two spots atm.

I'm sure this is a wonderful post and contributes much to the current discussion. But seriously...


Lolwut.

Whoever said no multihit attacks is a bad thing is dumb. Multi hit is bad as technically every single one can be SDI'd out of and retaliated against. Or at least avoided. Good example is pika's Dsmash, it would be a good move but everyone and their Mum just SDI's and avoids it.

Multi-hit moves are a double-edged sword. As you said, yes they're easy to SDI out of. But they have advantages too. They're really good at eating through airdoges and spotdodges due to their long duration, and they're really good for shield pressuring too.

 

[<π]

peach is good, almost as good as sheik.

 

[llamapaste]

GaW will move down a little bit. Still though, people are underrating him because he doesn't get any rep (besides UTD Zac) and has a few bad matchups. He's still high tier for sure because he can live a long time and has great aerials even if they are predictable. And yes, he is sometimes boring to play.

 

[Kitamerby]

Lingering shiz > multihit shiz.

Super debatable. Multihits have a habit of being safer on block. See Lucas Nair. :\

 

[adumbrodeus]

What are you smoking?

Cause I want some of that ****.

Yea, definitely this:

1. Lucario has multi-hit moves.

2. Multi-hit moves can be useful, but SDI tends to render them a lot less useful.

Lingering shiz > multihit shiz.

That is all.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, meaty attacks, especially if you hit during their initial frames, can be very unsafe. Depends on the move obviously.


Really, it always depends on the individual moves, some multi-hit moves have incredible properties that makes them useful overall (see: tornado), but I would say overall lingering>multihit, because there are more good lingering moves then multi-hit moves.

GaW will move down a little bit. Still though, people are underrating him because he doesn't get any rep (besides UTD Zac) and has a few bad matchups. He's still high tier for sure because he can live a long time and has great aerials even if they are predictable. And yes, he is sometimes boring to play.

Predictable is fine if there's nothing your opponent can do.


Unfortunately, even Ganon can beat G&W's aerials, or at least most of them, if he does it properly. Bair's quickly becoming useless especially, due to the massive predictable gap between the second to last and last hit. SDI also ***** a lot of his stuff.


I think a lot of his MUs are overrated and as people re-examine his MUs he's gonna lose a lot of those shiney MU numbers.




Doubles however, that's a different story... I'm with inui, he's so easy to set up for, and if you use him for zoning so your teammate can take advantage of how he limits options he's really great because he can cover a lot safely. He also lives FOREVER.

But... this is a singles tierlist unfortunately.

 

[Meru.]

Brawl is so much more balanced in doubles anyway.

 

[Teran]

How is that w word NOT censored?

Americans don't say ****er, so it's not on the censor list. They think it's funny when said as it's some sort of British character trait but have no idea that it's pretty vulgar and implies something dirty.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Americans don't say ****er, so it's not on the censor list. They think it's funny when said as it's some sort of British character trait but have no idea that it's pretty vulgar and implies something dirty.

Imo, that should be brought up to the staff, this IS an international board, and is supposed to be 13 and older, that word should be censored for consistency's sake.


I understand non-English phrases, cause this is an English language board, but exempting British, Irish, Scottish, Australian, or [other regional English variant here] curse words is a bad idea because again, it's inconsistent.

 

[Wulfy07]

My point is that Falco's hardest matchup is harder than what Wario has to face. Falco is also less CP safe overall compared to Wario just based on stages/how they can adapt.

Okay..so if a standard match:
Neutral
Wario picks a CP
Falco picks..a...neutral...

I fail to see the issue?
And while yes, ICs are the worst match up for Falco, I have played Holy Chef, and even though I got ***** (read, 2 stocked), I'll be honest, it wasn't *that hard. One, it takes far more discipline and concentration than I, as a smash player, have. I am, in contrast to good Falcos, a complete and total amateur. However, The first stock of both games ran us both to the 120% point, at which we immediately killed off a stock to both of us, and so much time had passed over that point, I was completely drained and couldn't focus on spacing, etc. While that match up is very difficult, it isn't near as impossible as one might think. It's different and requires a different focus than most matches (camp, punish approach, chain grab, etc), but maybe that's just my opinion.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Okay..so if a standard match:
Neutral
Wario picks a CP
Falco picks..a...neutral...

I fail to see the issue?
And while yes, ICs are the worst match up for Falco, I have played Holy Chef, and even though I got ***** (read, 2 stocked), I'll be honest, it wasn't *that hard. One, it takes far more discipline and concentration than I, as a smash player, have. I am, in contrast to good Falcos, a complete and total amateur. However, The first stock of both games ran us both to the 120% point, at which we immediately killed off a stock to both of us, and so much time had passed over that point, I was completely drained and couldn't focus on spacing, etc. While that match up is very difficult, it isn't near as impossible as one might think. It's different and requires a different focus than most matches (camp, punish approach, chain grab, etc), but maybe that's just my opinion.

He's saying that Falco's strategies are much easier to destroy with a counter-pick, whereas wario is generally effective regardless.

That means that falco HAS to win the first match.

 

[DMG]

When I say CP safeness, I'm talking about how well a character does when they are taken to a variety of stages. I'm referring to how "versatile" they are on stages overall. Characters that do well on neutrals aren't exactly CP safe.

For example, G&W. G&W isn't amazing on neutrals compared to Snake/Falco/Diddy, but if he gets taken somewhere like Rainbow Cruise, Lylat, Frigate, Delfino, etc. He tends to do better than them on a lot of stages against various opponents. This is what I mean by CP safeness. If Falco gets taken somewhere random, chances are Wario would be a safer pick than Falco/would be able to adapt better to the stage.

Edit: adumbrodeus beat me to it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

How is that w word NOT censored? So where do you think Peach ought to be? Because I don't see her rising more than one or two spots atm.

She belongs in B tier, maybe in the middle of it.

peach is good, almost as good as sheik.

I think you mean Sheik is almost as good as Peach.

I'm sure this is a wonderful post and contributes much to the current discussion. But seriously...


Lolwut.

Whoever said no multihit attacks is a bad thing is dumb. Multi hit is bad as technically every single one can be SDI'd out of and retaliated against. Or at least avoided. Good example is pika's Dsmash, it would be a good move but everyone and their Mum just SDI's and avoids it.

I love how people take a drunk person seriously. I should get drunk more often.

 

[SnackAttack]

Let me tell you noob babies about Peach. Peach is a beast, people need to understand that. I am sick and tired of you people downgrading Peach man. You have all those Peach players in the backroom for what? Seriously, for what? You fools can't even get **** right.....

Peach is the truth, you ******* need to understand that.

You shouldn't use that word guy, watch your language.

 

[Browny]

I love how people take a drunk person seriously. I should get drunk more often.

I knew it was deliberate lol...

I just HAVE to ask, What has sheik done recently to make people say shes suddenly worthy of a considerable rise in tiers? It looks to me that characters like Yoshi and Mario have just as good a reason to rise, so much talk of being a good character, but wheres the relevant impact on the tourney scene? Theorycraft is worth precisely nothing if no one can attain this supposed level.

 

[DMG]

Shiek is a good/ok character. I think she is underrated on her current spot, but how far she should rise is debatable.

Shiek isn't tournament winning level though.

 

[Attila_]

Whoever said no multihit attacks is a bad thing is dumb. Multi hit is bad as technically every single one can be SDI'd out of and retaliated against. Or at least avoided. Good example is pika's Dsmash, it would be a good move but everyone and their Mum just SDI's and avoids it.

kind of true but not quite. and pika's dsmash isnt the best example, cause even if you sdi out of it you cant really counter it... think gw bair or olimar uair... i sdi through those attacks and counter with bair/uair with some consistency now... making those multi hit attacks horrible. but an attack like zelda fsmash? just try and sdi that *******. it doesnt work. there are a few others too... diddy's fsmash is sdi-able (if your on the inside or the outside) but because it lasts for a while and punishes spotdodges well, is actually another example of a good multi hit attack. attacks need to be judged on a case by case basis.

 

[Veggi]

I can SDI Zelda's fsmash sometimes. Up smash, that's a different story.

 

[Jupz]

UpSmash is very hard to DI because it has a ****load of little hits all doing just over 1% damage. You can't SDI anything that does less then 1%. After its been staled 3 times, its impossible to SDI.

 

[Veggi]

People kept telling me it could be SDI'd out of so for a while I was frustrated with myself not being able to do it. Knowing that I'm not the only one that fails at it makes me feel comforted.

 

[Nefarious B]

Whats the optimal way to sdi olimar's uair, since someone was saying it was easy. I find it impossible to DI down through, and side ways I don't seem to move far enough before the final hit.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Whats the optimal way to sdi olimar's uair, since someone was saying it was easy. I find it impossible to DI down through, and side ways I don't seem to move far enough before the final hit.

This.

And I dont think DIign up would be viable, since olimar players usually up air your while theyre rising, so theyre going up with you anyway

 

[Attila_]

if he's rising: down/away (i can counter this with snake's uair from below after di-ing out)
if he's level: up and away
if he's falling up and away

much easier than you'd think

 

[hough123]

Where would you guys see Lucario on the next tier list? He seems to be doing well so far this season, but I know that that alone won't affect his placement.

As a Lucario main, I'd say a tiny rise. As a smasher, he's pretty good where he is now.

 

[-Mars-]

I don't see how people can place ZSS in the top 10. Makes zero sense to me.

 

[Flayl]

Who would you rather see at number 10? Lucario? Pikachu? Mr. G&W? Kirby?

 

[DMG]

G&W with planking allowed should stay in top 10. I think IC's will move over Olimar/Pikachu.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nah G&W blows.

 

[DMG]

His Uair blows Air.

 

[smashmachine]

Who would you rather see at number 10? Lucario? Pikachu? Mr. G&W? Kirby?

G&W or pikachu

 

[mountain_tiger]

I don't see how people can place ZSS in the top 10. Makes zero sense to me.

ZSS isn't quite top 10 material, but she should be higher than she is now. 12th or 13th seems about right. She doesn't have many people who main her at a high level, but those that do are getting good results with her. She has decent matchups against the top tiers, with the notable exception of Falco (ban FD or get ****ed), and Squirtle (she does OK against the other two Pokemon though).

Among other things, ZSS does well at mid-range, has a powerful air game (especially Bair and Uair), a versatile projectile in the form of suit pieces (they can take off a stock if used right), a good recovery that's hard to gimp for many characters, good abilities to keep opponents above her for extra pressure and damage, and a solid punishing game. Her main problems are a lacking ooS game, light weight and a poor projectile once suit pieces have been used up.

 

[Shaya]

Hmm... characters better than ZSS:

MK, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, Dedede, Marth, G&W, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, ROB, Kirby, Lucario.




...



Oh but seriously anyone currently in S tier she is not better than (at the moment), so that's 6.
She is not going to be better than:
Marth, Ice Climbers nor Pikachu any time soon.
So that's 9.

I think Lucario's over all better. So that's 10.
That's a bit of a future stance. At the moment I'd say Olimar, G&W and *hick* ROB are still better. Maybe Chudat too.
But yeah, ZSS I don't think has the ability to go above 11th, at least with my current perception of the game.

 

[smashmachine]

Hmm... characters better than ZSS:

MK, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, Dedede, Marth, G&W, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, ROB, Kirby, Lucario.




...



Oh but seriously anyone currently in S tier she is not better than (at the moment), so that's 6.
She is not going to be better than:
Marth, Ice Climbers nor Pikachu any time soon.
So that's 9.

I think Lucario's over all better. So that's 10.
That's a bit of a future stance. At the moment I'd say Olimar, G&W and *hick* ROB are still better. Maybe Chudat too.
But yeah, ZSS I don't think has the ability to go above 11th, at least with my current perception of the game.

Chudat's a character?
lol

 

[Flayl]

Pikachu seems overrated, Olimar looks like a better character overall.

Not in any order, but these seem to be guaranteed top 8:
MK, Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Wario, Marth, Ice Climbers, Dedede

And then I'm not sure, but I'd bet Olimar is the best candidate for 9.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Chudat's a character?
lol

There is no kirby, only chudat.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Meh Sonic is the best character in the game.

 

[mio]

After Kirby I would switch it to:

A Tier
Donkey Kong

B Tier
Toon Link
Pikachu
Luigi


DK, Luigi and Toon Link are highly underrated because nobody is good with them, but they are all pretty sick characters with plenty of good match-ups. Pikachu on the other hand is way too high, he/she/it sucks compared to everyone else in A tier. The rest of the list looks pretty accurate.

 

[ShadowLink84]

DK, Luigi and Toon Link are highly underrated because THEY SUCK. Pikachu on the other hand is way too high, he/she/it sucks compared to everyone else in A tier. The rest of the list looks pretty accurate.

The statement is now 100% accurate and agreed upon in full.
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3522066