The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[BEES]

Haven't tried it. Still too much fastfalling I think. It could be that I'm just too set in my ways, and need to give some time to playing this type of Falcon before I jump to conclusions.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Why do people want a higher Ness SH? I cant really see the reason.

It doesn't feel right not being able to jump after his Fair. I don't see much real reason for a shorter SH either.

 

[kupo15]

Haven't tried it. Still too much fastfalling I think. It could be that I'm just too set in my ways, and need to give some time to playing this type of Falcon before I jump to conclusions.

FF is easily fixable and I actually had FF to 1.025 anyway but ppl thought it was too little. So here is the original code I had if you want to try it.

09189D70

 

[cAm8ooo]

So my power went out for like a week right after the shiek ftilt fix came out. Did that code not work right? If it does then i say we need to implement it in the next beta

 

[Yeroc]

Pity, I'm quite liking this Falcon.

I really can't see much that I personally would change. Would it be possible to reduce the knockback on the raptor boost? That move doesn't combo for anything anymore.

 

[cooler1339]

I agree with BEES on Falcon, he does drop a little bit too fast on his own. Otherwise hes pretty good. He needs jump momentum the most though.

Link feels pretty good on stage, though you solved that problem by making his main kill move Down Air. I personally thought that move was supposed to kill at lower percentages because of the risk. I would much rather see other moves improved and the only air move he needs with less landing lag is Up Air. His recovery seems a bit better but it's still bad.

Bowser is the one that gets me. He can spam strong air attacks like crazy but all his ground moves have so much end lag. The one I hate most is up tilt. I use up tilt and I don't even try to time the jump after, have to mash until it finally goes. He needs to have more gravity, just seems wrong how floaty he is.

 

[shanus]

Haven't tried it. Still too much fastfalling I think. It could be that I'm just too set in my ways, and need to give some time to playing this type of Falcon before I jump to conclusions.

I don't know what your doing wrong, but even with my settings I can recover from every falcon aerial easily. Most people seem to agree, too.


So far, we are planning some changes with the values most people don't like for a quick update:

Namely:

Less grav on Wolf
Less grav on Ness
Higher FH on D3
Change Links ALR from 25% to 35%

 

[The Cape]

Bowser is floatier because its harder to combo him. He can FF just fine.

I think it compliments him well.

Would you prefer Bowser, who cant combo well, to be alot heavier and be combo bait?

 

[GPDP]

I second the complaint on Bowser's utilt. I propose we speed it up a notch, so that he can at least attempt to follow up with an aerial. As it is now, it's not even worth attempting.

 

[cooler1339]

Bowser is floatier because its harder to combo him. He can FF just fine.

I think it compliments him well.

Would you prefer Bowser, who cant combo well, to be a lot heavier and be combo bait?

Yes. I feel he should be combo bait, but other areas can be improved to make up for that.

*His jump should reach max height faster.
*He should drop faster.
*Certain ground attacks should have less end lag.
*Back Air should kill, or be stronger.

Bowser is so floaty that its hard to even do quick air attacks like he use to. Or at least that's how I remember it.

only my opinion though.

 

[Problem2]

I've been wanting to run with my own codes forever, but because of the Link recovery boost and other fun fixes, I couldn't resist but try this code set. Also because they don't separate into parts well.

Cool character changes though.

 

[Shell]

Did more quick testing, but long play session coming up tomorrow at 3pm. In the meantime...

Could someone explain to me the reasoning for Sheiks gravity and FF values? She feels kinda slow. I would assume this is to boost off the stage game / recovery, but it feels like too much. Fast falling barely does anything. Enlighten me.

Also, G'Dorf is perfect.

I dunno about floaty bowser, I'll keep feeling it out.

Link is a beast, I need to adapt to this new style.

While I enjoyed the feeling of Beta 2 Samus more, I understand that a floatier gravity setting probably is in her best interest

 

[Dan_X]

Peach is.. too good? (Beta 2) haven't tested 3 yet

Pity, I'm quite liking this Falcon.

I really can't see much that I personally would change. Would it be possible to reduce the knockback on the raptor boost? That move doesn't combo for anything anymore.

I agree, this would be nice. A high knockback isn't needed as it should just be a combo starter.

Does anyone think Peach is... almost too good in Brawl+? My friend has been using her in Beta 2, and I Falcon. It's gotten to the point where it's almost rediculous. Almost all of her attacks out prioritize Falcon's, especially aerials, and-- turnips. Also, it seems to me that much of her combing comes easy. It almost seems like DIing doesn't matter against some of the rediculous things she can do.

For example, dash attack seems way to reliable, as it always sets up for two to three. Then there's her down air. It seems to hold you in it once you get hit, and the hitstun allows you to be caught in it again. Now perhaps my DI was ****, because I was frustrated at how hard I was working for combos where as my friend was dancing about seamlessly as Peach-- and it's not like this for any other character he chooses. Anyway, so he cought me in 3 downairs in a row, as I was stuck in hitstun, and then he finished me with a swift upsmash before the hitstun ended from the last Dair. Perhaps I just utterly suck. But, what do you guys think? Do any of you deal with Peach mains? It seems many of her combos are handed to her. Seriously, she's a combo queen. Her Ftilts generally bring you toward the center of her body, while stunned you'll get ravaged by something. She has really great aerials. Neutral is really good / fast.

/rant. Anyway, what do you guys think about Peach? Also-- is there a way to remove the random chance of the bombomb, and other stupid items that appear instead of turnips? Can the super turnip be removed?

Thanks.

 

[thesage]

I agree, this would be nice. A high knockback isn't needed as it should just be a combo starter.

Does anyone think Peach is... almost too good in Brawl+? My friend has been using her in Beta 2, and I Falcon. It's gotten to the point where it's almost rediculous. Almost all of her attacks out prioritize Falcon's, especially aerials, and-- turnips. Also, it seems to me that much of her combing comes easy. It almost seems like DIing doesn't matter against some of the rediculous things she can do.

For example, dash attack seems way to reliable, as it always sets up for two to three. Then there's her down air. It seems to hold you in it once you get hit, and the hitstun allows you to be caught in it again. Now perhaps my DI was ****, because I was frustrated at how hard I was working for combos where as my friend was dancing about seamlessly as Peach-- and it's not like this for any other character he chooses. Anyway, so he cought me in 3 downairs in a row, as I was stuck in hitstun, and then he finished me with a swift upsmash before the hitstun ended from the last Dair. Perhaps I just utterly suck. But, what do you guys think? Do any of you deal with Peach mains? It seems many of her combos are handed to her. Seriously, she's a combo queen. Her Ftilts generally bring you toward the center of her body, while stunned you'll get ravaged by something. She has really great aerials. Neutral is really good / fast.

/rant. Anyway, what do you guys think about Peach? Also-- is there a way to remove the random chance of the bombomb, and other stupid items that appear instead of turnips? Can the super turnip be removed?

Thanks.

All of that happened in melee as well (except for dair to upsmash, generally it was dair dair nair or something like that).

 

[cooler1339]

I haven't played a good peach so I don't know. If you play right with Falcon seems he should walk over her though, specially her recovery. Can you predict a dash attack and shield grab her? Falcon banks off grabs.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Possible Glitch?
I was just playing with beta 3, with the only manual addition being the momentum code. Occasionally, the characters would go into glitch mode similar to when the buffer code caused repeated actions. Basically, moves would automatically come out, and sometimes one character would even completely freeze (only happened on 1p though). After being hit, they would regain control.

Other than that, a few more quick impression:

Someone mentioned 2 frame buffer, and I agree. I used to have it on 3, and I still think that is ideal, but I would settle for 2 to please the hardcore guys. 1 just causes a lot of 'inaction' moments that are unnecessary, especially when trying to time jumps out of hitstun. I strongly urge the SBR+ to consider 2 to 3 frames.

Metaknight
Still ridiculous. The dsmash nerf is perfect, but I'm wondering about the tornado nerf. Even though it doesn't rise as much, it's still just as spammable. Unless your fighting Bowser . Any thoughts?

G&W
Only played him for a match, but the ALR nerf seems legit. He's still spamtastic on the ground, just not as much in the air, and even so, he's still decent in the air. You mentioned the case being too fast, but I'd actually rather see that stay fast - it's the turtle that should have lag, since it's already so abuseable.

Wolf
I actually really like him as a heavy guy. Wall of bair on the stage is too good. Toning it down would allow him more off stage options, which he already lacked in vB. Feels really fun overall

Falco & Fox
These two feel just as fun. Momentum make them even better. Can't say much more since I don't main them.

Samus
It's kind of a shame - her floatiness makes her stand out in a good way, I think. But I can't help but miss the missile spam that gravity gave her (think Muba's codeset). Of course, gravity would take away her trademark float. SH is already at .8, but I'm going to experiment with dropping it to ridiculous values and see what happens. It would be perfect if you could fastfall neutral B, but I'm not sure that code is possible.

Oli
He actually feels pretty good to me. Getting to the ground faster is a good thing on stage, since he generally wants to be grounded. Off stage didn't really seem like more of a problem than it already would be in vB. It does seem aesthetically out of place for a space-type to be heavy, especially when you look at Samus, but from a gameplay standpoint it works. One thing that I did notice was that it was a lot harder to foxtrot with pikmin plucks in between, due to the lack of traction. I could be a combination of the momentum code and the dash cancel at work, but it kinda takes away from his game IMO.

All in all, you seem to be taking great note of our feedback, Shanus. Thank you for that!

 

[Soldner Kei]

ok, first of all, Link's Upb Boost its perfect, and actually, thats the only thing that should be left modified, 25% of dair thingy its not necessary, Link has some killing moves besides Dair or Spin attack, so any good Link mainer will know how to Kill with him.

the other thing i must say, ZSS, neutral b its completly useless now, sorta was before, but had some uses, dsmash dosent stun that much too, and taking away dsmash from ZSS game its pretty bad, yeah combo thingy and stuff, but still, neutral b cant just be and dsmash should not, and having a useless fsmash its quite annoying to deal with, now 3 useless moves, hell no guys....

 

[The Cape]

Her F Smash is actually good for edgeguarding. D smash and neutral B can setup grabs, which lead to combos. Play around with the moves to find out more options.

Edit: Sorry, Booze and logic dont mix.

 

[Flamingo]

I can't wait for my first B+ tourney next weekend

 

[cooler1339]

ok, first of all, Link's Upb Boost its perfect, and actually, thats the only thing that should be left modified, 25% of dair thingy its not necessary, Link has some killing moves besides Dair or Spin attack, so any good Link mainer will know how to Kill with him.

the other thing i must say, ZSS, neutral b its completly useless now, sorta was before, but had some uses, dsmash dosent stun that much too, and taking away dsmash from ZSS game its pretty bad, yeah combo thingy and stuff, but still, neutral b cant just be and dsmash should not, and having a useless fsmash its quite annoying to deal with, now 3 useless moves, hell no guys....

Link doesn't have a kill move.

Link is terrible

 

[shanus]

Alright, all the edits to Beta 1.3.1 are made to hopefully respond to everyones inputs. It'll be posted tomorrow when Almas isnt on a crazy timezone difference.

Sorry Hurricane, but most people complained about wolf being heavy and I lowered him to be normal with just a faster FF.

Ness will be floatier which will make everyone happy!
D3 higher full jump (also everyone happy)!
Sheik Faster FF (1 -> 1.15)
Wolf (1 1 1.2 1 1)

Link ALR reduced to 35% lag from 25%

 

[kupo15]

First response:

Add 1.3 jump speed

xD

 

[GPDP]

Yeah, I quite like increased jump speed. It makes timing the thunderstomping and other such moves easier.

 

[Problem2]

I'll have to agree Soldner Kei on Link's d-air at least. That move is like Link's signature risk / reward move. I say return it back to 50% lag, but make it stronger. I also think that Link's on ground Up-b should be a lot stronger. After that I think Link will be fine.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

I haven't tried B+ Beta3 yet with Link, just with MK tornado and dsmash nerf

with no character specifics, Link in Muba's Code set, he's airhookshot game is really neat, if 2 hits conects, you can dash/walk + SH then again the hookshot, it combo's till he gets to an edge actually, depending on the DI the foe has, but thats the option to dash if the foe DI's away, if the foe DI's upward or toward you, you will need to walk+SH hookshot to combo

if I use this brawl+ beta V3, i'll use it with kupo's set, then muba's, i'll take the character specific from the real codeset, to see what happens

Thank you For making such a happy smash bros fan here

 

[zxeon]

I'll have to agree Soldner Kei on Link's d-air at least. That move is like Link's signature risk / reward move. I say return it back to 50% lag, but make it stronger. I also think that Link's on ground Up-b should be a lot stronger. After that I think Link will be fine.

It's not just about his Dair. His Uair has a lot of lag too. That's why He's at 25%. Link needs a lot more help than just a buffed UpB and Dair.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I agree, this would be nice. A high knockback isn't needed as it should just be a combo starter.

Does anyone think Peach is... almost too good in Brawl+? My friend has been using her in Beta 2, and I Falcon. It's gotten to the point where it's almost rediculous. Almost all of her attacks out prioritize Falcon's, especially aerials, and-- turnips. Also, it seems to me that much of her combing comes easy. It almost seems like DIing doesn't matter against some of the rediculous things she can do.

For example, dash attack seems way to reliable, as it always sets up for two to three. Then there's her down air. It seems to hold you in it once you get hit, and the hitstun allows you to be caught in it again. Now perhaps my DI was ****, because I was frustrated at how hard I was working for combos where as my friend was dancing about seamlessly as Peach-- and it's not like this for any other character he chooses. Anyway, so he cought me in 3 downairs in a row, as I was stuck in hitstun, and then he finished me with a swift upsmash before the hitstun ended from the last Dair. Perhaps I just utterly suck. But, what do you guys think? Do any of you deal with Peach mains? It seems many of her combos are handed to her. Seriously, she's a combo queen. Her Ftilts generally bring you toward the center of her body, while stunned you'll get ravaged by something. She has really great aerials. Neutral is really good / fast.

/rant. Anyway, what do you guys think about Peach? Also-- is there a way to remove the random chance of the bombomb, and other stupid items that appear instead of turnips? Can the super turnip be removed?

Thanks.

You have to SDI using the c-stick. DI with the control stick by rotating slightly, and DI with the c-stick by tapping. It takes co-ordination but i think its the most efficient way to DI (Don't know about tap DI'ing with the control stick too). One thing to look at is if hes floating towards you while Dair'ing, you may have to DI differently. Also, don't try to shieldgrab Peach.

Peach has always been pretty tricky though, my first time dealing with a good Peach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpl0gEFQYbE&feature=channel_page

Also, Link had no lag on his aerials in 64 and it helped him a lot. I'm fine with less aerial lag and the new Link reminds me of 64 Link. Definitely a very helpful buff, but not overpowered. If I were to choose, I'd pick a projectile buff over this. With the options we have now though, this buff was pretty reasonable.

 

[zxeon]

Lol, vB. That was pretty good for having no hitstun.

It's all about the weak hits in vB. They want combos and hitstun so bad they just can't admit it.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Who says they won't admit it? Maybe they do admit it but they just get used to it and learn to adapt. =P

 

[zxeon]

Who says they won't admit it? Maybe they do admit it but they just get used to it and learn to adapt. =P

Sheik Ftilt lock, infinite grab releases, DDD chain grab, Falco chain grab, Metaknight Mach Tornado spam, Shuttle Loop spam, Planking and pressure spam, projectile spam, camp out, and miscellaneous Dtilt spam.

These are just a few of the "adaptations" that you have to make in a game that was designed to be "fun". How did it manage to accomplish the opposite?

 

[Makkun]

I recently realized that Link has always been my favorite/most fun character to play, so I started learning his Brawl ATs. I think his full hop needs just a LITTLE more height, It seems almost impossible to do the Double Quickdraw technique. With a few minutes of practice, I was only able to time the move a few times. Maybe I'm just bad? Everything else on Link seems perfect to me, but I just didn't have enough time to pull out the bow again before landing on the ground.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Sheik Ftilt lock, infinite grab releases, DDD chain grab, Falco chain grab, Metaknight Mach Tornado spam, Shuttle Loop spam, Planking and pressure spam, projectile spam, camp out, and miscellaneous Dtilt spam.

These are just a few of the "adaptations" that you have to make in a game that was designed to be "fun". How did it manage to accomplish the opposite?

They're only unfun when you don't get used to them. Otherwise they're just apart of the game and you learn to get around it.

I could say Falcon's grab combos are like glorified chaingrabs, and that once they're rehearsed it becomes almost automatic and boring to pull off. Just because it takes more skill to do it doesn't mean its not pretty much the same effect at a high level of play.

You could list all the reasons you want for why Brawl+ or Melee is better, but why say Brawl is worst because you just don't want to find ways around chaingrabs and spam?

 

[zxeon]

I recently realized that Link has always been my favorite/most fun character to play, so I started learning his Brawl ATs. I think his full hop needs just a LITTLE more height, It seems almost impossible to do the Double Quickdraw technique. With a few minutes of practice, I was only able to time the move a few times. Maybe I'm just bad? Everything else on Link seems perfect to me, but I just didn't have enough time to pull out the bow again before landing on the ground.

Wtf is double quickdraw?

 

[Almas]

Double Arrow, with the second arrow being land cancelled.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Also, Link had no lag on his aerials in 64 and it helped him a lot. I'm fine with less aerial lag and the new Link reminds me of 64 Link.

64 Link? Awesome.

Sheik Ftilt lock, infinite grab releases, DDD chain grab, Falco chain grab, Metaknight Mach Tornado spam, Shuttle Loop spam, Planking and pressure spam, projectile spam, camp out, and miscellaneous Dtilt spam.

These are just a few of the "adaptations" that you have to make in a game that was designed to be "fun". How did it manage to accomplish the opposite?

Owned lol


@Shanus
It's ok about wolf. He was already fun from vB. Even with less grav, he's still good on the ground, and will now be able to get bold with the spike again. All the other changes look good. Way to keep your ear to the streets!

 

[zxeon]

Alright, all the edits to Beta 1.3.1 are made to hopefully respond to everyones inputs. It'll be posted tomorrow when Almas isnt on a crazy timezone difference.

Sorry Hurricane, but most people complained about wolf being heavy and I lowered him to be normal with just a faster FF.

Ness will be floatier which will make everyone happy!
D3 higher full jump (also everyone happy)!
Sheik Faster FF (1 -> 1.15)
Wolf (1 1 1.2 1 1)

Link ALR reduced to 35% lag from 25%

Links Uair still has a bunch of landing lag even at 25% and his Uair and Dair are the only moves really affected since his other three moves have very little landing lag. I don't understand why he's getting lowered to 35%. Is it because Dair doesn't look slow enough? Wtf is that?

 

[shanus]

Updates are Live in the OP, hope everyone enjoys em for the long weekend. I won't be here for most of it, but any glaring problems I'm sure some Backroomers will note.

 

[Yeroc]

Hey, I just thought of something. What would happen if we used a line of code to change the speed of a move, make it faster or slower at the beginning, then put a second line right after that which sets the move to regular speed after a set number of frames? Would that fix the issues that someone had with the spamminess of the lightning jab, or would it make it possible to give some characters *coughwhocouldIbereferringto?cough* more startup lag on some of their more abusable moves?

 

[Alopex]

Hey, it was my pleasure. Glad to see grab release nonsense completely removed from this game while still retaining their use for positional advantages and mindgames.

Still not sold on Falcon UpGrav giving him too much vertical survivability...
Still not sold on <1 UpGrav on Bowser and Charizard giving them less vertical survivability than vBrawl...
Still not sold on UpGrav.

 

[shanus]

Hey, it was my pleasure. Glad to see grab release nonsense completely removed from this game while still retaining their use for positional advantages and mindgames.

Still not sold on Falcon UpGrav giving him too much vertical survivability...
Still not sold on <1 UpGrav on Bowser and Charizard giving them less vertical survivability than vBrawl...
Still not sold on UpGrav.

Have you played as them though?

Falcon is not hard to kill. period.

Bowser & Charizard play SO much better than before. Not to mention bowsers increased survivability from thick skin.