The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[thesage]

Ness was always in the "middle" of floatiness even in vbrawl. He isn't supposed to be mega floatly lol. His whole playstyle is having an aerial game close to the ground.

 

[Bowser King]

Lol at Bowser taking no damage during a Meta Knight Tornado, except at the end. I'd be interested to try 2% but then he might not take damage from too many of the projectiles. Either way, it's a cool and innovative way to keep him competitive.

Awesome!

Going to try this out later but This is win

-Bowser King

 

[trojanpooh]

Ness was always in the "middle" of floatiness even in vbrawl. He isn't supposed to be mega floatly lol. His whole playstyle is having an aerial game close to the ground.

Oh I guess I'm not making this clear. By old floatiness I mean between 64 and Melee

 

[Blank Mauser]

So far a lot of the changes in Beta3 are really great, though there are a few chars I think could be better.

Dedede really needs more aerial options. Honestly his grab game is horrible without chaingrabbing and techchasing. Techchasing is what made his Usmash and Dsmash so good, now they hardly have much purpose. His tilts are pretty good on FF'ers too, but overall he feels really limited and is nerfed a lot from vBrawl. I tried changing his full jump up to 1.5 and he feels really great. He combo's like a more straight forward version of Kirby and the floatiness really helps his slow WoP style aerials since they all have a decent amount of lag. His side-B is also more usable and overall hes just a lot more versatile as a character. Uthrow now has a decent follow-up, and so do Full Jump Nairs and Dairs. Besides that, being the main antagonist of the Kirby series I think he should be a balloon killer, yet he can hardly edgeguard them at all with his slow jumps. I really think Full Jump would add a lot to his game, since he gave up a lot of what made him good in Brawl.

Ness's shorthop feels too low. I really liked vBrawl Ness' floatiness because it made such good playstyles. He used to be able to Shorthop Fair, double jump Nair and still have time to Dair. Dgrav limits him too, if he could full jump Bair/Fair and still have time to Dair that would be nice. Overall his short hop is my biggest beef, but even then I'd still like him to be floatier.

Some other chars I've tested that I think have really come a nice way are Lucario, Link and Bowser. They feel so awesome. I'm sure there are others I forgot too but yeah I like this codeset.

 

[rocklee10]

So are these codes meant to fix Brawl? Or to make it more fun for people who know how to hack?

 

[storm92]

So are these codes meant to fix Brawl? Or to make it more fun for people who know how to hack?

To make a competitive version of Brawl which can be more thoroughly enjoyed than regular vanilla Brawl.

 

[rocklee10]

How do you put these codes in?

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

I gotta ask; what is the Character ID Fix code?

 

[wazgood]

Look up Makkun's thread about how to hack your wii.

 

[shanus]

Alright, I've noted the opinions on both Ness & D3. They will be playtested further to make them better for the next set.

Rock Lee, have you homebrewed your wii yet?

 

[goodoldganon]

D3 is a defensive character. Why are we trying to give him some sort of great offense when he has an amazing defense? His shield grab range is still insane, his Waddle Dees are amazing to spam, his WoP is still good, and he is quite resilient. I'm sorry I'm just not seeing the reason to buff D3, I agree he fell but he isn't awful like Bowser or Link was.

 

[kupo15]

momentum code actually helps D3 out so he is buffed

 

[trojanpooh]

So far a lot of the changes in Beta3 are really great, though there are a few chars I think could be better.

Dedede really needs more aerial options. Honestly his grab game is horrible without chaingrabbing and techchasing. Techchasing is what made his Usmash and Dsmash so good, now they hardly have much purpose. His tilts are pretty good on FF'ers too, but overall he feels really limited and is nerfed a lot from vBrawl. I tried changing his full jump up to 1.5 and he feels really great. He combo's like a more straight forward version of Kirby and the floatiness really helps his slow WoP style aerials since they all have a decent amount of lag. His side-B is also more usable and overall hes just a lot more versatile as a character. Uthrow now has a decent follow-up, and so do Full Jump Nairs and Dairs. Besides that, being the main antagonist of the Kirby series I think he should be a balloon killer, yet he can hardly edgeguard them at all with his slow jumps. I really think Full Jump would add a lot to his game, since he gave up a lot of what made him good in Brawl.

Ness's shorthop feels too low. I really liked vBrawl Ness' floatiness because it was made such good playstyles. He used to be able to Shorthop Fair, double jump Nair and still have time to Dair. Dgrav limits him too, if he could full jump Bair/Fair and still have time to Dair that would be nice. Overall his short hop is my biggest beef, but even then I'd still like him to be floatier.

Some other chars I've tested that I think have really come a nice way are Lucario, Link and Bowser. They feel so awesome. I'm sure there are others I forgot too but yeah I like this codeset.

Theres one more who feels Ness isn't floaty enough.

And also I agree with what you are saying about Lucario. At first I thought he fell too fast, then I realized that he shouldn't be floaty because unlike Mewtwo, he isn't Phycic or magic in any way.

As far as Link is concerned, I think he needs more lag. Maybe not as much as other characters, but still a little bit more is needed.

For a while I thought Sheik was too floaty, but that was just because I was playing MuBa's set and Sheik was my first character with this new set.

Here's what I got from what I played (good means the setup is good and I have no insight):
Ness: Too floaty
Lucario: Good
Link: Not enough lag
Sheik: Good
Olimar: A bit heavy for a space dude, I would have pictured either floaty or average
Jigs: Faster in air I think Good
ZSS: Sheik 2.0 Good
Samus: Good
Lucas: The changes made to him make him too heavy. jk.
Bowser: Still not sure how I feel about 0% attacks, but I'll see what my friends think
Metaknight: Lag is good, but I think his tornado should be given some mobility to make it different from the Luigi Tornado.


Changes I would make:
Mario/Luigi: Longer range for fireballs
Sheik: Melee Needles

 

[Blank Mauser]

D3 is a defensive character. Why are we trying to give him some sort of great offense when he has an amazing defense? His shield grab range is still insane, his Waddle Dees are amazing to spam, his WoP is still good, and he is quite resilient. I'm sorry I'm just not seeing the reason to buff D3, I agree he fell but he isn't awful like Bowser or Link was.

D3's shieldgrab is nerfed with shieldstun. Also a lot of characters are going very nicely with offensive buffs and the shield pressuring with air momentum is not going to help D3's position at all.

Also his waddle dees are slow, very easy to both jump over, dodge, and sometimes they just go flying off the stage anyways. Its really not a spammable projectile, and isn't good in general. His recovery is predictable and is pretty much Fsmash fodder.

So far the best aerial I've noticed is Bair, which isn't saying much. Dair and Uair seems really useless with SDI and landing lag, I've only managed to combo Dair when people least suspect it and the last hit of both those aerials hardly ever hit. A better full jump would at least give him options. He has a tough time setting up techchases so his ground moves are limited too, only good move I've been noticing is Utilt. Why we should leave so many of D3's moves so useless?

I honestly think hes worst than Bowser. His chaingrab was the only reason he was so good. He was actually 50-50 with a lot of people he couldn't infinite/chaingrab.

momentum code actually helps D3 out so he is buffed

I heard the momentum code isn't really reliant on Dash speed though and a lot of chars go just as far as Falcon. Either way hes still pretty limited with his jumps.

 

[kupo15]

I heard the momentum code isn't really reliant on Dash speed though and a lot of chars go just as far as Falcon. Either way hes still pretty limited with his jumps.

I dont think so. MK doesn't go that fast

 

[goodoldganon]

Wolf, just wow. I don't know what to say but I hate him. Either something is bugged about him or he is just in mad hitstun all the time. He falls way too fast and can even be chain grabbed at lower percents. He was worse KO and combo potential then Fox. Lower Wolf's gravity or something cause he has a mediocre combo game, a bad projectile, a bad recovery, and gets combo like a fast faller. Basically he all the weakness of the FFers and none of the benefits. I'll play test him some more though.

 

[maticMan94]

Though the release notes don't indicate, samus feels extra floaty again. Maybe it's just me. I know I'm always sticking up for samus, but someone's got too.

Bowser also feels too floaty for me. I thought he was great in beta 2.

I love the Ganon quick jab.

 

[Alopex]

Umm... this has probably been mentioned already but...

Reducing Bowser's and Charizard's UpGrav to below 1.0 will result in them dying earlier from vertical KO's, which goes completely against the notion of them being heavyweights.

Falcon's and Wolf's huge survivability compared to them now is pretty much just insult to injury.

I need to once again restate my objection to UpGrav changes.

Even the one on MK. Take the nerfs one step at a time. Let the community decide if his moveset nerf was enough balancing enough already before you start adding decreased survivability on top of it.

 

[leafgreen386]

Wolf, just wow. I don't know what to say but I hate him. Either something is bugged about him or he is just in mad hitstun all the time. He falls way too fast and can even be chain grabbed at lower percents. He was worse KO and combo potential then Fox. Lower Wolf's gravity or something cause he has a mediocre combo game, a bad projectile, a bad recovery, and gets combo like a fast faller. Basically he all the weakness of the FFers and none of the benefits. I'll play test him some more though.

Well, part of the problem is that his hitstun division constant is too low.

Hitstun is calculated by h = m*l / d, where m is the universal hitstun constant, l is launch speed, and d is a character specific division constant. Division constants are higher for characters with higher fall acceleration (ie. fox) to prevent them from being combo'd quite so bad, but wolf has a similar fall acceleration to characters like pit and mario. His division constant is 33, in a game where division constants range between 32 and 36. With +.085 hitstun, wolf currently suffers 45 frames of hitstun from an attack with a launch speed of 3000. If he had fox's division constant of 36, he would only suffer 41 frames of hitstun from the same attack. Not a significant amount, but it can matter.

 

[goodoldganon]

Hmm that makes sense. Any other Wolf players having trouble playing as Wolf now a days?

 

[GPDP]

Good works, guys. I'm digging the Bowser, Ganon, and Link buffs.

However, I believe Bowser falls a bit too slow. His jump is pretty fast, and that's good, but his falling speed makes him feel like I'm underwater. I'd say up his falling speed a tad bit.

 

[grim mouser]

Played with my modified version of Beta 3 just now. I turned off buffer (I used 1 line 1 frame, but it didn't feel that great), turned on Air Momentum.

Falcon- Great. I felt that he pulled off Knees and other aerials quite well. Only problem is his massive platform momentum, but we all knew that. Dash Cancel allowed me to set up d-tilt > Knee pretty well. SH bair was particularly useful.

Suggestions- Obviously momentum, but other than that he seems polished.

Falco- Really cool. Easier SHDL (I got the soundless laser almost every time, and I'm not that great), good SHFFLing, and the air momentum helped his approaches.

Suggestions- None that I can think of right now... Looks good.

Fox- Also really cool. The SH was perfect for SHDL, nair, and dair. FF made SHFFLing very good. The slide provided by Dash Cancel+Momentum (I guess?) made for some interesting shines and combos.

Suggestions- It's like Melee Fox, which is sweet. 1 frame shine maybe?

Kirby- Solid. SH aerials worked great, FoP let me score several KOs, and u-tilt leads into combos. FF felt solid as well.

Suggestions- None that I can think of right now.

Jiggly- Stood out as one of my favorites. I don't remember how Jiggly's Melee FF was, but Beta 3 FF was fine for SH aerials. Kind of slow to fall from higher up, but I assume that's how it's supposed to be. U-tilt led to some combos and Rests. SHFFLing was solid.

Suggestions- FF seemed a tad slow from full hops/air combos, but it didn't bother me much. Very fun to use.

Marth- Some insane platform momentum, but meh. SH double fair was a welcome return, and SHFFLing was perfect. Dash Cancel slide was particularly handy, and I experimented with Dash Cancel > DSmash and other things.

Suggestions- None that I can think of right now.

Bowser- The "Thick Skin" was a cool buff. I rarely/never play Bowser, but he seemed pretty OK, especially compared to vB.

Suggestions- I don't think I can suggest much, as I play Bowser only once in a blue moon.

Shiek- Ftilt combos, dthrow combos, SHFFLs, and needles made for a good arsenal. Fair doesn't have the power I'm used to, but that, if changed, would come later anyway.

Suggestions- None that I can think of.

Meta Knight- Wow, that's a low SH. xD Every aerial JUST managed to finish in time, so FF didn't seem to be much of a factor in SH aerials. FF was good for returning to the ground after a few uairs or a combo. Nerfed Tornado was a good idea for sure. DSmash lag wasn't that punishable... for the most part it just slowed MK down by a bit.

Suggestions- Maybe more nerfs? He was still really good.

ROB- Side-B momentum was just ridiculous. =P That aside, his SH was just enough to land nair, double fair, uair, and bair. Dair didn't come out, but full hop dair is fine, since a SH one isn't incredibly useful anyway.

Suggestions- None that I can think of.

Toon Link- I noticed he has SHDA back, which is great news. Granted, I had default 10 buffer on, which helped execute the arrows quick enough. SHFFLing was great, but he seemed to have a bit too much momentum (I know the code is likely to be toned down, which would fix this). He can now pull a bomb and set it on the ground all in one SH, which is a nifty mindgame. He can also bomb drop and re-grab it in a SH.

Suggestions- None that I can think of.

Overall impression- Really good. I didn't have time to go very in-depth with any one character, but I played with most of the characters I commonly use. The gravities and SHs seemed ideal from my test. Great fun.

 

[shanus]

Hmm that makes sense. Any other Wolf players having trouble playing as Wolf now a days?

wolf is relatively unchanged since beta 2. I can combo like crazy with him too. Try him some more I think, but I'm listening.

 

[goodoldganon]

Hmmm, how are you comboing with him? He's just a fun character to use, not one of my bests. As I said, I just felt like I was in a whole lot more hitstun then ever before and I was getting combo'd on like mad. On the topic of Wolf, have we consider doing something with the Blaster? It's a good poke but maybe I'm expecting too much from it.

EDIT: What about a decrease in his SH and ALR. Make his SH lower so he can use the F-air closer to the ground, but also lower his ALR. Most of his stuff has next to no lag as it is, it's just to give him what I feel is a better F-air. I'm not talking major like Link, just something small like Falcon.

 

[shanus]

Hmmm, how are you comboing with him? He's just a fun character to use, not one of my bests. As I said, I just felt like I was in a whole lot more hitstun then ever before and I was getting combo'd on like mad. On the topic of Wolf, have we consider doing something with the Blaster? It's a good poke but maybe I'm expecting too much from it.

chain ff uairs and ff fairs. you can actually combo them even into a side B if they DI wrong. Also can combo into bairs. bairs can do fun stuff too. also his utilt is great to set stuff up.

interesting idea on the ALR reduction too, i'll have to keep it in mind.


Oh, and techchase with dair to set up these too.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Wolf is pretty easy to combo with for me. He gets grab combo'd easy and yeah he doesn't exactly have the best recovery to make up for it but hes definitely not bad at comboing.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ya the best few matches have been better. I still think he falls a little too fast, even for a spacie. Wasn't he the fastest faller in vBrawl? *Shrug* I'll play with him more tonight to get more concrete feedback. On that note, I have a good friend coming over, who haven't we about to see how the play. Sides the Mother characters the two of us are somewhat knowledgeable about the rest of the cast.

 

[shanus]

Ya the best few matches have been better. I still think he falls a little too fast, even for a spacie. Wasn't he the fastest faller in vBrawl? *Shrug* I'll play with him more tonight to get more concrete feedback. On that note, I have a good friend coming over, who haven't we about to see how the play. Sides the Mother characters the two of us are somewhat knowledgeable about the rest of the cast.

Let me know your thoughts on him after you have played him a bit more. I'm all ears for making chars fit their playstyles best.

 

[maticMan94]

I can confirm samus has gotten more floaty. I just loaded the beta 2 codeset and she was better in that one.

 

[Teronist09]

I'm curious, how much was kirby's gravity altered? Fastfall nair offstage seems to always be death.

 

[shanus]

I'm curious, how much was kirby's gravity altered? Fastfall nair offstage seems to always be death.

gravity unchanged, ff = 1.2. I recover no problem :O

 

[SketchHurricane]

Ness
I have to agree that Ness feels a bit heavy. It's seems he's always been the floaty type and it fits him. Perhaps bring his down grav value back to 1 so that he falls slower.

Bowser
Thick Skin is cool, but I'm curios as to how the code works? I'm not sure if 0 damage moves are a good thing. Does it decrease damage across the board, or simply eliminate 1% damage attacks? If fractions of damage are still kept in memory, it would be cool if jabs and the like still did a bit of damage after 1 or 2 hits. I'll see how some serious matches go against my friend who plays him well, and get back to you.

I also agree that he feels a bit floaty. I'm not sure of the logic behind reducing his overall grav. Care to explain?

Gannon
Hope I'm not crucified for this, but the jab kinda seems a tad on the fast side now. I'm thinking 1.5 might be more viable, and I'll try to validate that with some testing.

Falcon
Feels like water, baby! Haven't tried him with the momentum beta yet, but I will.

Ivy
Man, his lag reduction really opens up some combo options for him. SH uair is actually a pretty good option on the ground! It should do a lot to bring him up to Oli status (beast on the ground, but still gimpable off the stage).

Link
Whoa, I think 25% ALR is a bit much. His dair is just scary fast! Makes him feel really beast, but I think it should be toned down to the 30-40 range...

MK
I'm liking the tornado and downsmash nerfs. I dunno about making him lighter, as he already seemed light enough, but I'll have to test him. We need some real good MK players to give us their 2 cents.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Bowser

I also agree that he feels a bit floaty. I'm not sure of the logic behind reducing his overall grav. Care to explain?

Floatier characters are harder to combo as in general they suffer less hitstun (I'm not actually sure what causes this though, but somehow having a higher fall speed increases the amount of hitstun on you).

It's a defensive buff that helps Bowser not get combo'd as much, which when used in combination with the "Bowser don't care code" turns him into a defensive tank.

 

[Shell]

Regarding the Ganon Jab:

I mentioned this to shanus a bit ago, I thought I'd bring it up here.

The most important part of Ganon's jab is how fast the opening frames come out. In melee, this was on the third frame. This was still balanced because the move had enough ending lag. If Ganon was pressuring a shield with it, the opponent could retaliate between jabs with half-way decent timing.

Enter Brawlendorf. At 1.7x speed, the move comes out roughly on the 5th or 6th frame. Certainly not game-breakingly good. The key difference is that in Brawl they gave his jab generous amounts of IASA frames. Thus, at 1.0x speeds he could repeatedly jab at melee-esque intervals thanks to the IASA frames, but was hindered by the all important initial slow opening frames. Speeding up the move at all means that the jab can be spammed with little interval in between.

If you slow the move down much more, you run the risk of losing the real benefit of a fast initial hitbox. What really needs to be fixed, if at all possible, is the removal of the generous IASA frames so he can not spam it.


Bottom line is, I don't think anyone's going to put the work / lines necessary to fix this, so I say let Ganon have his cake. I still think he's in the middle of the stack as it is. As I admit that I am ganon-biased, though, I will play a bunch of matches against my friends and see what they think.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Ness
Bowser
Thick Skin is cool, but I'm curios as to how the code works? I'm not sure if 0 damage moves are a good thing. Does it decrease damage across the board, or simply eliminate 1% damage attacks? If fractions of damage are still kept in memory, it would be cool if jabs and the like still did a bit of damage after 1 or 2 hits. I'll see how some serious matches go against my friend who plays him well, and get back to you.

I was wondering this too, just so I can figure out whether some moves are even worth it to use on him. I really was only able to go even in damage with GS' Bowser using D3, but using other chars I had to pull a lot more moves to get him up lol. Its pretty cool, heavies being used against heavies and all.

Anyways, I did Kirby's Dthrow and since the move is separated into several hitboxes he didn't even take damage until the last hit. Heck I'm only waiting for moves to do negative damage now.

 

[leafgreen386]

Floatier characters are harder to combo as in general they suffer less hitstun (I'm not actually sure what causes this though, but somehow having a higher fall speed increases the amount of hitstun on you).

Actually that's not true. At all. It's just that floaties are in the air longer and thus seem like they have less hitstun. In actuality, the higher your fall acceleration, the less hitstun you receive. I mentioned this earlier in the thread when talking about wolf. Note I said fall acceleration. Not top fall speed. So it is possible for a character to have a high fall speed acceleration but a low top fall speed and thus get away with less hitstun.

Hitstun is calculated by h = m*l / d, where m is the universal hitstun constant, l is launch speed, and d is a character specific division constant. Division constants are higher for characters with higher fall acceleration (ie. fox) to prevent them from being combo'd quite so bad, but wolf has a similar fall acceleration to characters like pit and mario. His division constant is 33, in a game where division constants range between 32 and 36. With +.085 hitstun, wolf currently suffers 45 frames of hitstun from an attack with a launch speed of 3000. If he had fox's division constant of 36, he would only suffer 41 frames of hitstun from the same attack. Not a significant amount, but it can matter.

 

[The Cape]

What Dark Sonic said about Bowser is roughly true. He is a bit floatier, with a faster fast fall to allow him the ability to get out of combos easier, with Bowser dont care on top of that it just makes him that much harder to build damage on. Sure he dies easier off the top, when you finally get him to the right percent :-p

Wolf, dont like his heavy nature either. I loved how he played before any changes were made to him back with Kupo's old set.

Glad to see people like the Ivysaur and Link boosts

Why do people want a higher Ness SH? I cant really see the reason.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Anyways, I did Kirby's Dthrow and since the move is separated into several hitboxes he didn't even take damage until the last hit. Heck I'm only waiting for moves to do negative damage now.

Yuup. It does 1 percent at the very end because it does 1's and then a final 2 which is the only attack doin anything. Makes kirby's downthrow pretty much useless as a damage racker besides the fact that it can be used to start a nice little combo on him with up-tilts or b-airs and what not. I actually like it this way tho (not from a kirby stand point but a bowser of course) It makes him much better and different then any other character. It doenst make him too good tho. Overall its a wonderful buff to his game. gg on whoever thought it up.

 

[BEES]

1 frame buffering doesn't quite do it for me. I think I'll go back to 2.

Also, not liking the Falcon in beta 3. Feels like he's wearing lead boots. Simply running off the stage to attack is a near-death experience. This has been a problem in all three beta codesets so far. So I'll roll back to the Cape's gravity modifiers.

 

[kupo15]

why did we give links dair lag a boost? Is it not 15 frames anymore?

BEES, have you tried my falcon?

Spoiler

0918AD70

Falcon full gravity from 1.1 to 1.075
Fast fall still at 1.15
Sh from .9 to .85 to compensate for slightly more floatiness
Fh kept at 1.1 because ledge hop nairs was hardly possible
kept down grav at 1.2