Um no, I'm "proposing" that the 3 fast fallers from Melee don't have to be and shouldn't be the only 3 fast fallers in Brawl+. There's no reason not to have other characters be fast fallers also if it suits their playstyle, and fast falling definitely suits Squirtle's playstyle.
I'm just seeing what feels like too much of a Melee bias with the way things are being applied to Fox, Falco, and Capt. Falcon. It's not like they're the only ones that can benefit from the degree of fast falling they're receiving. And since this is Brawl and not Melee, the standard for who is a fast faller should come from new Brawl standards, not old Melee standards.
Umm... you're entirely missing the point.
What's the point? A lot of those moves DID kill in vBrawl and were cornerstones of character metagames.
Moves like Sonic's Uair, which every Sonic player will tell you was priceless in vBrawl. It got severely nerfed in Brawl+ simply from the overall increase in fast fall speed and downwards fall speed.
So it's inherently doing less knockback in Brawl+ and not killing as early as it did in vBrawl. Considering the Uair's properties, that nerf was entirely unwarranted.
OBVIOUSLY if VKO's aren't a good strategy for a character, then you don't rely on them and they will still be a bad strategy for that character in Brawl+.
But if VKO's are a good strategy (like most Luigi strategies), then all those strategies have been nerfed across the board. That's not fair when you consider that all characters whose strategies relied on HKO's remain completely unphased and actually get boosted when you consider how much more powerful edgeguarding is now.
So we boost the VKO moves back to the point where they can be reliable killing moves again.
That's not changing anything, that's RESTORING what was lost in the transition to Brawl+. Much like Brawl+ is restoring things which were lost in the transition from Melee to Brawl.
Granted, like I said before, VKO's did need some nerfing as they were too easy in vBrawl. But FF and Dgrav nerfs combines with UpGrav nerfs just take things too far for characters like Mario, who needed a buff instead of a nerf. His UpSmash was his most reliable kill move, and it's been unnecessarily nerfed across the board.... like many other moves... that's the whole point here... unnecessary nerfs that need to be reversed, the only way of doing so being KB increase.
@Shanus
Understandable position, and I'll play 3.1 as soon as I get my Wiimotes back (Monday night), but considering how little the values have changed from Beta 2, the math would indicate that VKO's remain relatively unchanged from Beta 2.
And I've only really been asking for that one change...
Whether it's through UpGrav reduction or increase of knockback for VKO moves... they're just two different avenues towards the same solution... and both would be fine with me if both were available.
EDIT: Also Shanus, could you please explain to me what 0.95 UpGrav does to make Char/Bowser that CAN'T be done by just increasing SH and FH and decreasing DownGrav?
I'm not seeing it.
