The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Jiangjunizzy]

Ok, after some testing, turns out the frame speed mod only affects the animation of the character and not the hitbox's speed. I changed ivysaur's dsmash to 1/5th the speed, and the hitbox came out when it should've if it was at 1x speed, but his animation didn't even get to the part where he's supposed to attack.

 

[cooler1339]

I hear that if you play online you desync and its super lame which is a shame really. If you want to see good players just youtube it.

Concerning the method of fixing one character at a time, I don't mean to question your methods but how will you measure how balanced a character has become if you don't have others to compare them to? In my opinion it would make more sense to make one change to every deserving character (or a couple at a time) so you can compare them to the rest of the roster easier. Just my two cents, if you think your way is better then I trust you guys.

btw is there a way to get just Link's B^ buff without anything else? If so could someone either point me in the right direction, or post it?

Don't worry too much about everything I've said. If this gets popular enough people will realize that bad characters need buffs. By then we will have plenty of opinions to fix them. People will say a character is fine now, but when they start to realize they can't compete they will change their minds.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Just like to say that Ivysuar and Ness feel great. Ness keeps his options and still feels fast, and Ivy has some serious combos. After fixes are made to his tether he'll be pretty good. I'm having too much fun with the changes you guys made lol.

 

[Alopex]

In case anyone missed it, Almas confirmed in Kupo's thread that the No ASL code was missing. So that answers that. I'm sure he's reinserted it by now.


As for the freezes, I highly doubt its the grab values as it just wouldn't make sense.

But if someone who gets glitched frequently could test it out with and without the grab release values, and see if there's a difference, if the problem does turn out to be with the grab release values, I already have an idea of how it could be fixed. But if they aren't the problem, it's entirely unnecessary.

 

[spunit262]

I manged to repeated the crash. It happened it the "Character Specific Gravity Modifiers" code. I got it while transforming into Giga Browser, it's not exactly common as I did it a few times (I was in training mode trying to repeated it). I'm going to try Zelda/Shiek to see if it will happen with them. I sent Almas a PM with more details.

 

[Alopex]

Alright, so I can breathe a sigh of relief then. While you're here, spunit, would you mind helping me out with this conundrum?

Value 00C on the Action List is "Second Jump", so assumingly it's the midair jump/double jump. Can that value be used in any way to make a code for the DJ height? Perhaps through altering the SH or FH codes that currently exist?

 

[spunit262]

Alright, so I can breathe a sigh of relief then. While you're here, spunit, would you mind helping me out with this conundrum?

Value 00C on the Action List is "Second Jump", so assumingly it's the midair jump/double jump. Can that value be used in any way to make a code for the DJ height? Perhaps through altering the SH or FH codes that currently exist?

One of them is also messes with the DJ power too right (I think I remember someone saying some thing to that effect, I think it was Almas), then it should be possible.

 

[stingers]

3rd time's the charm...

Why was Pictochat taken out of random

 

[The Cape]

Not really. I'm not one of said players. I'm their hacker monkey.

He isnt a hacker monkey. He is my personal love toy.

 

[zxeon]

He isnt a hacker monkey. He is my personal love toy.

...uhh, what?

 

[Alopex]

One of them is also messes with the DJ power too right (I think I remember someone saying some thing to that effect, I think it was Almas), then it should be possible.

Sorry, spunit, I didn't quite understand the bolded part. Could you rephrase that, please?


@Stingers
I don't know what you mean by "taken out of random", but if you're wondering why it's not frozen/reversed any more, that answer is in the OP under "Global Settings Changes".

 

[SketchHurricane]

Shanus
Are you also keeping an ear to the Code Agenda thread? There was some discussion on Bowser grab release in response to the grab release fix, and Alopex came up with some numbers that are pretty compelling towards the viable preservation of Bowser's grab release options. Check out these two posts in particular.

 

[lamelikemike]

3rd time's the charm...

Why was Pictochat taken out of random

lol, no one seems to want to give you an answer.

well the reason its not in random, is the same reason it is now un-frozen.(or a result of that)

There is discussion (according to the OP) that maybe it should not be frozen to present another strong counter pick.

I'm assuming all this after reading the change log in the OP.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I like the Bowser Grab Release solution Alopex came up with. Definitely not just an idiot proof setup now.


Also, the txt file download seems to lack returns. It's just a giant wall of text.

Is anyone else having this problem? If it's just me, I'll deal.

 

[Almas]

It's to do with how the formatting of a raw text file works. I can fix it soon enough.

Spunit was right about the crash glitches - I know exactly how to fix the error, but I'm going away until tomorrow night for a tournament. Considering the rarity of these glitches, I don't see it being that much of an issue.

It seems someone is smiling down on me, too, given my newfound name colour.

EDIT: Aw heck, I'm taking Brawl+ to the tourney. I can't present a glitched version. The OP has been fixed, but the website hasn't. Hopefully you'll find fewer crash glitches now.

 

[Bowser King]

Ok, so,

Bowser Math Time!
(Bowser Frame Data)

Bowser's dash grab comes out on frame 10. To my knowledge, it is the dash grab that is used for his chain releases.
Shield comes out on frame 1. Equally, then, you can start a spotdodge on frame 1, but the laggiest spotdodge won't have invincibility frames until frame 3.

So, if we compound that, it would take 33 frames to perform a spotdodge from the moment you get ground released.
Bowser can dash grab you after 10 frames, so compounded it means that it would take 30 frames for Bowser to perform a dash grab from the moment he ground releases a character.

So, in order to remove Bowser's chain release completely, he needs to have a grab release animation length of 23 frames. This way, Bowser's dash grab will always come out on frame 33, just like the laggiest spotdodge (ironically, Bowser himself is the one who has that spotdodge...). This means no character will ever be able to get chain released.

So, this means Bowser would have 7-10 frames of leeway to work with, depending on whether or not his follow-up attack can be shielded or not and also depending on which character you're up against.


Remembering that the opponent's shield will come out on frame 31, what follow-ups does Bowser have with 7-10 frames of leeway?

- Jab (Hits on frame 6, will hit on frame 29. Guaranteed against all characters pending range.)
- Utilt (Hits on frame 8, will hit on frame 31. Might get shielded.)
- SideB (Grabs on frame 8, will grab on frame 31. Guaranteed against all characters.)
- UpB (Hits on frame 6, will hit on frame 29. Should be guaranteed pending range.)

- Meanwhile, if your opponent is slow or doesn't know the match-up, you could Ftilt, Dtilt, Dash attack, or Dash regrab. Those all come out on frame 33. One would hope that your opponent wouldn't let you dash regrab after the first... but if they do, they deserve it. That'll learn 'em! Like DI'ing Falcon's throws to prevent chain grabs.

- You could also play mindgames on your opponent, because if you expect a spotdodge will take place after the release, just use neutral B instead. It'll be out before their spotdodge ends and you can hold it to punish them when their invincibility frames are over. Not bad, right?

- A DownB could also be pulled off, circumstances permitting. It'll hit on frame 34, so it's a risky maneuver, but it could work if you predict your opponent will shield and jump out of the shield upon release.


So, yeah. That's what I got.

What do people think? What do the Bowser mainers think about their options?

23 is as low as Bowser's grab break can get without permitting the chain regrab. So there's no point in asking for it to be any lower than that. I think there are plenty of options left to Bowser with a 23 grab break. And given how he can't combo out of any of them and none of them are reliable kill moves, I don't see this as being any different than the Falcon throws > stuff that SketchHurricane mentioned.

Bowsers grab release is easily the hardest grab release (universal) and one of the hardest chaingrabs to pull off.

It's not like D3's or falco's or even IC's chaingrab. You have to predict an air release or ground release and even if you button mash, your opponent can still get out (by button mashing as well). Bowsers grab range is crap. Short and simple. Grab release is a huge part to keeping bowsers defensive and offensive mix available. Without it I'm afraid bowser players are going to be forced to stay defensive and, when a projectile spammer comes in. Were going to be forced to move in (which we always are with spammers) but then were, if hit, going to get comboed like there's no tommorow. ^B isn't even as useful anymore so our defensive game, once again gets destroyed.

Also take into account that bowser, even with grab release in Vbrawl isn't considered that hard to beat (although he's extremely underrated). With his weaker versions and not as useful moves and ability to get comboed to who knows when will ever be considered a threat or good at all.

Thick skin is his basically his new saving point and it's really good at that. Though, contrary to popular belief, he can't even then be saved. His floatyness helps him get out of the combo's but it allows him to get killed faster. Double-edged sword. For a character like bowser that wants to avoid stringed together moves in Vbrawl I'm sure the threat of not being able to get out of combo's or getting killed easy (which, even with less combo's they'll still be there and bowser is one of the characters it effects the worst) will haunt us for a long time.

All I'm trying to say is that bowser is a decent character and I enjoy playing as him BUT with his weaker moves and weaknesses along with a overall weaker defensive and offensive play it feels as if bowser got striped of his shell and sent out with nothing to protect him.

Grab release options

Also, bowser bomb can get airdodged on second hit to all the characters it applies to (very few).
using b has huge start uplag and a person could easily roll in that time.
Ftilt can get shielded and with and so can utilt (which wont work because it hits above bowser and behind and not the front.
Klaw works on a few characters in Vbrawl so I'm guessing it will be the same here.
Same applies for ^b.
Jab is basically still useful.

Summary:

Good
-Thick skin- very good

Double edged sword
floatier

Bad
No grab release- bad
Not as useful klaw and fortress- very bad
Comboed- bad

I'm not trying to complain about what you guys have done because you guys are amazing for making brawl+ come this far but I ask that you keep his grab release because neither is it game breaking (characters like wario, who suffer the most, are near impossible to grab) and neither without it will bowser be the same.

-Bowser King

 

[shanus]

Shanus
Are you also keeping an ear to the Code Agenda thread? There was some discussion on Bowser grab release in response to the grab release fix, and Alopex came up with some numbers that are pretty compelling towards the viable preservation of Bowser's grab release options. Check out these two posts in particular.

Im away from my comp this weekend (on iphone) if you could pm me those links thatd be great

And uh oh @ almAs being red

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Okay guys, I'm having some serious issues here.

Just a second ago, a friend and I were playing with the newest codeset.

I fell into the water in Jungle Japes and went to jump out. Ness jumps like 2 feet from the water and does a PK Flash. I fall back in and try to jump out again. Another PK Flash. I respawn on the stage and jump. Another PK Flash.

We started circling our control sticks and he got locked doing Fox's fsmash, while I kept throwing out PK Flashes without touching anything but the control stick. Default settings


I don't know what to make of it. Should I capture the replay and upload it?

I've also been doing jumps when I didn't mean too for a while now. I assumed I accidentally hit up too far or something, but now I'm questioning that. It always happens when I go for Ness' dair, if that helps

 

[Revven]

Okay guys, I'm having some serious issues here.

Just a second ago, a friend and I were playing with the newest codeset.

I fell into the water in Jungle Japes and went to jump out. Ness jumps like 2 feet from the water and does a PK Flash. I fall back in and try to jump out again. Another PK Flash. I respawn on the stage and jump. Another PK Flash.

We started circling our control sticks and he got locked doing Fox's fsmash, while I kept throwing out PK Flashes without touching anything but the control stick. Default settings


I don't know what to make of it. Should I capture the replay and upload it?

I've also been doing jumps when I didn't mean too for a while now. I assumed I accidentally hit up too far or something, but now I'm questioning that. It always happens when I go for Ness' dair, if that helps

Try another stage with water? See if the CPU does it? If the CPU does it, then, yeah it's a problem. But, if the CPU doesn't, then it's your controllers. >_>

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Try another stage with water? See if the CPU does it? If the CPU does it, then, yeah it's a problem. But, if the CPU doesn't, then it's your controllers. >_>

Two of my controllers? I never had this problem with any other game, Melee or vBrawl

And it's not a constant thing, this is the first time I've been locked in a PK Flash.

I'll go test it on other stages and stuff. If it is my controllers, then that's actually the best case scenario. I could stand to have new controllers anyway.

 

[SketchHurricane]

@Tatsuman
Same thing happened to me with beta 3 codeset. The only addition I had was jump momentum. Different moves were coming out though, as in an air dodge every time we jumped, ect. The only code in the past that had a problem with moves automatically coming out was buffer, although it was a bit different than this. It could be the buffer code interacting with something else, but that's just my guess
Edit: It had nothing to do with water though.

In other news, I have an interesting idea! Looking at the move ID list, and the possibility of speeding frames up...would it be possible to speed up the entire game, or most of it, by globally speeding up every move in the move list? It would be roughly the same effect as the global speed code, and could possibly work without the glitches! I might try a raw text file that simply speeds up everything in the list and test it out.

 

[shanus]

So far notes for the next iteration of char balances:
Samus (too floaty)
Sheik (too floaty)
Wolf (add some more weight)
Alopex / Sketch Hurrican Bowser Grab Release Mod

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Huh...

The replay didn't record it. It simply acts like a desynched replay and we start killing ourselves about the time it happened.

 

[Revven]

Two of my controllers? I never had this problem with any other game, Melee or vBrawl

And it's not a constant thing, this is the first time I've been locked in a PK Flash.

I'll go test it on other stages and stuff. If it is my controllers, then that's actually the best case scenario. I could stand to have new controllers anyway.

Well, it never happened to me in the time I played with Finnz yesterday, so, I dunno. =\

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Well, it never happened to me in the time I played with Finnz yesterday, so, I dunno. =\

I've been playing friendlies with my crew every day for a week now. This is the first day I've run into this, and also the first day I've been using Beta3.1

Though the jump issues I mentioned have been a problem all week. Even when I was using Mookie's codeset. Maybe I just fail at jumping? xD

 

[shanus]

Thats a strange error tatsu. Sounds almost like a controller error even :O. We have a member of our crew who plays ness a lot and never experienced said issues. Let us know if it happens again.

 

[Alopex]

Bowser King, I'm sorry but no. Chains of any kind need to and are being removed.

Ease is not a factor, because at the professional level it will occur regardless.

Just look at Sliq in vBrawl.

Fact of the matter is, if it can be done, it will be done. And it will be done a lot.

23 frame grab break gives Bowser tons of options after a grab release, which I've detailed. I cannot see how a chain grab is a justifiable request. Abusing an exploit is NOT a way to balance a character.

The DownB and NeutralB are options pending prediction. In a lot of cases, your opponent is likely to dodge right after the grab break in order to avoid getting regrabbed. You can punish that reaction by starting the NeutralB after your grab break. The frames will coincide perfectly to have you punish that dodge. DownB also needs prediction. Brawl+ is all about rewards for proper prediction.
SideB, Jab, UpB, all those will work most of the time.
Tilts are a way to punish their slow reaction if you have faster ones. Same applies for a regrab.

I mean, yes your options are more limited than vBrawl, but they still exist. Bowser can still do things out of a grab break. He still has a grab release game that can be used. I know it's not as ideal to you Bowser mains since it's a nerf from vBrawl, but you have to understand that exploiting broken grab mechanics does not promote a smart way to fix things.

As you can tell by the sheer amount of discussion and the unique things that's being applied solely to Bowser, we are trying hard to fix Bowser. We're not ignoring him and we won't stop until he's totally fixed. But we're not going to do that by turning a blind eye to obviously broken mechanics.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Thats a strange error tatsu. Sounds almost like a controller error even :O. We have a member of our crew who plays ness a lot and never experienced said issues. Let us know if it happens again.

If it was my controller reading inputs wrong though, wouldn't the replay have saved the input exactly and been able to replicate it?

An odd problem, to be sure...

 

[zxeon]

I think Samus is great as she is right now.

 

[shanus]

If it was my controller reading inputs wrong though, wouldn't the replay have saved the input exactly and been able to replicate it?

An odd problem, to be sure...

Missed your post about the replay desync, sorry there ;-). I'm not sure really, its hard to say what went wrong without any other repeats. Something to definitely keep in mind though. Thanks for reporting!

 

[shanus]

I think Samus is great as she is right now.

I was thinking of just buffing her Downgravity to something like 1.2, so empty jumps will be a bit quicker. I was also thinking of slight upgrav addition of 1.025. Nothing that noticable, just slight modifications. I am away for the weekend though, so I'm relying on others to test it for me lol

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Missed your post about the replay desync, sorry there ;-). I'm not sure really, its hard to say what went wrong without any other repeats. Something to definitely keep in mind though. Thanks for reporting!

Yeah, no worries.

I'll keep playing around with it and see if I can see what causes it.
Just for the record though, it happened to my friend's Fox as well. He was locked doing his fsmash without touching the controller in the same match.

 

[shanus]

Yeah, no worries.

I'll keep playing around with it and see if I can see what causes it.
Just for the record though, it happened to my friend's Fox as well. He was locked doing his fsmash without touching the controller in the same match.

Very strange. I know Almas said there was a bug in one of his codes he found, and I think he updated it this morning. Update your set, just in case.

 

[stingers]

Wait, Pictochat was unfrozen because it's considered a viable stage even in it's unfrozen form?

It's not. At all. Honestly, Wall Infinites enough are enough to ban it, not to mention the randomness of it and having to fight the stage more then your opponent...

If your opponent Fsmashes you and a Rocket randomly appears and gives you an extra 25%, how is that fair? That's the whole reason items are banned.

 

[shanus]

Wait, Pictochat was unfrozen because it's considered a viable stage even in it's unfrozen form?

It's not. At all. Honestly, Wall Infinites enough are enough to ban it, not to mention the randomness of it and having to fight the stage more then your opponent...

If your opponent Fsmashes you and a Rocket randomly appears and gives you an extra 25%, how is that fair? That's the whole reason items are banned.

Its mainly because the stage hazards are minimal. As the SBR has left it as counterpick, we too have chosen to have it remain as counterpick for the time being. We had several discussions about it, but for now, we are leaving it alone.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Wall infinites are gone, as far as I know. They weren't even a big deal in vBrawl on Pictochat, just annoying.

If a Dedede was going to counterpick you, he'd counterpick Yoshi's Island and kill you within a minute. Not get scattered wall chaingrabs that last at most to about 50%.

Jab Locks might be a problem, but if you get caught in one on Pictochat, I think you almost deserve it. xD

 

[stingers]

Stage Hazards are minimal have never been a reason for allowing a stage; otherwise I'm sure that stages like Warioware and Pokemon Stadium 2 would be counterpicks on the normal Brawl as well.

Also, as I'm sure you know, the SBR made Pictochat a legal stage with Brawl- in mind, not Brawl+.

You've already changed things like default stock amount AND put stages on random...that weren't even allowed in Brawl-. Why would you leave in things like Pictochat in?

I'm questioning where you could find a tournament with Yoshi's Island (melee) allowed. For Singles at least, for doubles it's...counterpick worthy I suppose.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Stage Hazards are minimal have never been a reason for allowing a stage; otherwise I'm sure that stages like Warioware and Pokemon Stadium 2 would be counterpicks on the normal Brawl as well.

Also, as I'm sure you know, the SBR made Pictochat a legal stage with Brawl- in mind, not Brawl+.

You've already changed things like default stock amount AND put stages on random...that weren't even allowed in Brawl-. Why would you leave in things like Pictochat in?

I'm questioning where you could find a tournament with Yoshi's Island (melee) allowed. For Singles at least, for doubles it's...counterpick worthy I suppose.

Warioware gave random invincibility, model size changes (with increased or decreased knockback as well), and random kills. This is not the same thing as Pictochat's incredibly predictable hazards. The only way I've ever been killed by one is being thrown into them.

PS2 was a counterpick. xP

Because it's a perfectly reasonable stage?

All the tournaments around here have had it be legal recently. I know because I counterpick it frequently.

 

[smasher91613]

Sorry if this has been asked, I'm a little confused. How exactly does this work? Your saying that I can just put codes into my wii and actually change how the characters play?

Thanks for the help

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Sorry if this has been asked, I'm a little confused. How exactly does this work? Your saying that I can just put codes into my wii and actually change how the characters play?

Thanks for the help

Yes. You use a homebrew program called Gecko OS and load the game through that. It will boot the codes stored on your SD card to Brawl and apply them.

There are multiple guides around the boards on how to enable your Wii to play Brawl+, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure it out.