The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[leafgreen386]

People who say samus has always been floaty in her games so we should keep this... yeah, this is true... to an extent. But if you think she can't have a low sh, then you need to load up just about any metroid game (although super metroid would be preferable, seeing as how that's where she's the floatiest), and try to do a smash short hop with her. Notice how high she goes. She will barely lift off the ground. Samus had a huge amount of control over how high her jumps went in her games, so it seems stupid for her to not be able to perform a low sh when it would be more beneficial to her character.

As for bowser... how about we buff his uthrow and upB? Remove some of his lag from both of them so he can combo off of them. The buffed uthrow would make up for the loss of good grab release setups, and I've always felt that bowser should be able to combo off of his upB.

 

[Revven]

SMK, we have a new better Wolf for 3.2.

As for the SHs, using the code we have. We cannot take it lower than .8

That's fine (SH height), and cool, I'll be glad to test him and stuff. Will 3.2 be out soon?

 

[Blank Mauser]

Just my two cents on two of my characters that I main.
Kirby and Sheik's SH heights should be reduced, possibly to .9 or .85.
Right now, there's absolutely no reason to keep Sheik's SH height at 1 because it isn't keeping any specific combo, other than maybe her Dthrow-->Dair, but that isn't important enough to keep from lowering her high SH. Her game can be much improved by this.
Kirby as well, although doesn't have a high SH, could definitely benefit from a faster SH'd aerial game to ground, because SH Bairs/Fairs are about all he has for good approaches, and the time spent FFing the Bair could be lowered, therefore bettering Kirby in one area which he really lacks in.

As a Kirby main too I don't think its necessary. It couldn't hurt I guess, though only so long as Dair can still be SH'd usefully. .9 or .85 would be a little drastic imo. If anything, please don't change his Dgrav/Ugrav and FullJump settings, I like them the way they are. @_@

 

[CountKaiser]

Kirby seems fine to me. He feels great.

Some thoughts I had. Could that filler be used to modify character weights?

Also, I remember a debate that Dash speed was only a band aid fix for air momentum. With the new momentum code, will dash speed go away, now?

 

[cAm8ooo]

As a Kirby main too I don't think its necessary. It couldn't hurt I guess, though only so long as Dair can still be SH'd usefully. .9 or .85 would be a little drastic imo. If anything, please don't change his Dgrav/Ugrav and FullJump settings, I like them the way they are. @_@

While i agree that its not necessary. It does help his game a lot. I believe his approach game is much better when you can shorthop fast fall b-airs and f-airs at a faster pace.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I play a bit of Kirby myself, and he honestly seems perfect. Great balance.

A lower SH doesn't seem at all necessary, but that's just me.

 

[SketchHurricane]

even if an IC manages to **** with CGs. It is because they are better than the person they are playing, not because the CGs are broken, people need to learn to fight this type of thing instead of just saying it should be stripped from the character. because thats just ridiculous.

What? First of all, we haven't even come to a conclusion on ICs. Second, if they **** you with chain grabs, it has nothind to do with you because...oh I dunno...you can't do anything. You can be good at CGs and crap at general play, and you still get stocks for free if you land a grab.

For the record, I'd like to see ICs retain the CGs (lol), but if there is any possible way to prevent 0-deaths, that would be ideal. If we want to make it harder, perhaps editing the speed or knockback of the grabs. If we want to make it less practical, perhaps nerf the damage.

Right now, there's absolutely no reason to keep Sheik's SH height at 1 because it isn't keeping any specific combo, other than maybe her Dthrow-->Dair, but that isn't important enough to keep from lowering her high SH. Her game can be much improved by this.

Well, Sheik's been described as amazing, so there's not much incentive to make her better, even if we can. That's like suggesting things for MK just because they would improve his game. I know Sheik is no MK, but you get the idea.

People who say samus has always been floaty in her games so we should keep this... yeah, this is true... to an extent. But if you think she can't have a low sh, then you need to load up just about any metroid game (although super metroid would be preferable, seeing as how that's where she's the floatiest), and try to do a smash short hop with her. Notice how high she goes. She will barely lift off the ground. Samus had a huge amount of control over how high her jumps went in her games, so it seems stupid for her to not be able to perform a low sh when it would be more beneficial to her character.

As for bowser... how about we buff his uthrow and upB? Remove some of his lag from both of them so he can combo off of them. The buffed uthrow would make up for the loss of good grab release setups, and I've always felt that bowser should be able to combo off of his upB.

All good ideas. Problem is, they say SH can't go below .8, which is ghey. I think we should buff upB over uThrow, since upB is such a staple that it would be a more effective buff.

 

[poklin]

I think shiek really needs a shorter short hop it's just to high to be really useful and it slows her down, I feel kirby could use a very little decrease in sh height not much tho.

 

[Osi]

I think shiek really needs a shorter short hop it's just to high to be really useful and it slows her down, I feel kirby could use a very little decrease in sh height not much tho.

I agree with this a bit. I'm in favor of her having either less float or less SH. She lacks air speed a bit right now, and for a speed based character with bad KO potential I think the speed is a must. Or we can go the other route and make the SH just high enough to double air attack like mario/marth.

 

[Greenpoe]

Shanus
Are you also keeping an ear to the Code Agenda thread? There was some discussion on Bowser grab release in response to the grab release fix, and Alopex came up with some numbers that are pretty compelling towards the viable preservation of Bowser's grab release options. Check out these two posts in particular.

I agree. Seems like a perfect middle ground to me.

 

[The Cape]

Dude. Sheik F smash, Sheik U smash, D Smash, Back air, Nair

Gimps all day. No kill potential? Do you play any good sheiks?

The character plays excellently. She is one of the best chars right now IMO and the SH helps her combo game enough. Lower SH would actually be something that would put her on the line of too good.

 

[zxeon]

People who say samus has always been floaty in her games so we should keep this... yeah, this is true... to an extent. But if you think she can't have a low sh, then you need to load up just about any metroid game (although super metroid would be preferable, seeing as how that's where she's the floatiest), and try to do a smash short hop with her. Notice how high she goes. She will barely lift off the ground. Samus had a huge amount of control over how high her jumps went in her games, so it seems stupid for her to not be able to perform a low sh when it would be more beneficial to her character.

Seriously lets quit the bull****. Better SHs for Samus and Zero Suit Samus. Even at .6 Samus still gets air. I'm not saying that's what her SH should be though. A good number for Samus is like .75 - .8 And ZSS is good at .7 - .75 at normal Up gravity.

 

[Shell]

Wait, you aren't telling leafgreen to cut the bull****, are you? 'Cause he's agreeing with you.

 

[Osi]

Dude. Sheik F smash, Sheik U smash, D Smash, Back air, Nair

Gimps all day. No kill potential? Do you play any good sheiks?

The character plays excellently. She is one of the best chars right now IMO and the SH helps her combo game enough. Lower SH would actually be something that would put her on the line of too good.

Sorry cape, I should have specified more. Sheik has a lack of low % power KO moves, but the ability to raise damage 100+ in combos easily. Her air attacks are nice for gimps as well. You also brought up an excellent point that she may be good enough now, and putting that speed behind her could make her too good. Sorry really should have worded it different than no KO potential because she can combo to 100+ fast and KO with her down/up smash easily.

 

[zxeon]

Wait, you aren't telling leafgreen to cut the bull****, are you? 'Cause he's agreeing with you.

Don't worry I'm not.

 

[MK26]

RE: ICs CG

*light bulb turns on* Somebody make a code that halves the amount of buttons you need to press to escape from an IC grab. Makes it easier to escape from 0, and if they try to charge a smash you can escape before the second smash. Problem solved.

Also, leave Bowser alone! [/hysterical chris crocker voice] but seriously, leave his CG alone plox

 

[Blank Mauser]

If IC's can't kill out of grab what're they supposed to kill with?

Also I hope Samus keeps SH airdodge Zair.

 

[cAm8ooo]

RE: ICs CG

*light bulb turns on* Somebody make a code that halves the amount of buttons you need to press to escape from an IC grab. Makes it easier to escape from 0, and if they try to charge a smash you can escape before the second smash. Problem solved.

Also, leave Bowser alone! [/hysterical chris crocker voice] but seriously, leave his CG alone plox

Hmm. Maybe. But can you make this character specific to the IC's grab? I dont want everyone's grabs to become easier to escape, just theirs.

 

[stingers]

What's wrong with Wolf in this codeset? He's one of the most fun characters in 3.1 how he is. I recorded some matches with my friend today with Kirby and Wolf and they're amazing how they are.

 

[Revven]

What's wrong with Wolf in this codeset? He's one of the most fun characters in 3.1 how he is. I recorded some matches with my friend today with Kirby and Wolf and they're amazing how they are.

I was just saying that his SH height didn't feel right to me when I played him some today. His gravity isn't the problem, I just wasn't used to his SH height being normal again despite it being the same as vBrawl's.

A slight change to his SH height would be a good compromise IMO.

 

[Blad01]

Lol ? Bowser receives less damages ? G&W has more aerial lag ? A lot of these changes are so dumb

 

[stingers]

His SH height lets him hit with Bairs like no tomorrow though it's amazing.

Maybe since you're a Brawl- Wolf player you're biased but as a new Wolf user his Brawl+ self is fantastic.

How much do you want to raise his SH height? I honestly don't see what's wrong with how he is now, but if you see any way to improve his game by making his short hop higher, feel free to tell me <_<

 

[leafgreen386]

I really think we should be trying to optimize characters' physics first, and worry if it breaks them later. Because there's a good chance that a lot of our fears are unfounded. I also believe that we should be handing out nerfs sparingly, and instead be trying to buff characters up to the "standard." This means that if a character plays better with a certain set of values, then we should be using those values. Period.

Sheik doesn't need any buffs, but she should at least have an optimized sh height, which would be much shorter than she has right now. I'm gonna play around with the values a bit and try to find what I think works best for her.

 

[Revven]

His SH height lets him hit with Bairs like no tomorrow though it's amazing.

Maybe since you're a Brawl- Wolf player you're biased but as a new Wolf user his Brawl+ self is fantastic.

How much do you want to raise his SH height? I honestly don't see what's wrong with how he is now, but if you see any way to improve his game by making his short hop higher, feel free to tell me <_<

lol, I used Wolf in the Beta 2 set and he was quite amazing then so I'm more biased with how he was as a fastfaller. But, I like how he kind is now (the jumps and the gravity) it's just his SH height that bothers me. I don't want to increase it a lot, probably just down to .95 or .90, something not too short and not too high would suffice. What a lower Sh height would do for him would be this:

Pros
Dair becomes tons more useful as a combo and setup move
Fair hits easier than it does when you AC it and isn't just a move you use to setup with
Bair hits people lower and thus, he could follow up even faster with his Wall of Bairs. His normal SH height only allows him to do like two Bairs (SH Bair, then a full hop Bair) then you have to land again and continue from there (possibly fitting in a third Bair).
Wolf has a hard time hitting smaller characters without a slightly lowered SH height (Kirby for example).

Cons
Loses AC Fair


lol, I can't really think of anything else he loses in the cons section, there's more pros to it if he has a short SH height (just .95 would be nice IMO). He'd be able to combo a whole lot better overall if he had a shorter SH height. I always kinda dreamed Wolf would be somewhat like the old Falco in Melee before vBrawl came out, so I want his Dair to be more useful, and with his normal SH height that won't... really work.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Lol ? Bowser receives less damages ? G&W has more aerial lag ? A lot of these changes are so dumb

whats so dumb about bowser taking less damage? I think its mighty awesome if you ask me.

 

[MK26]

Lol ? Bowser receives less damages ? G&W has more aerial lag ? A lot of these changes are so dumb

I think the logic behind bowser is that he's so easy to combo and has so few combo moves that he needs to be able to tank to be viable.

And G&W's aerial lag was increased from 50% of his regular brawl level to 75%. Everybody's aerial lag was halved, and G&W's dair spam was noted to be super-powerful at such a low level. So they decided to pull it closer to the original level

On an unrelated note...any feedback on my IC grab fix idea?

 

[cAm8ooo]

I also made another suggestion in the code agenda thread. Make a code that triggers a grab break every 4th grab. Perhaps both of our ideas combined (if possible) would really solve the problem.

 

[BEES]

Still think Falcon's too heavy. I would get rid of some of his dgrav. Maybe set it to 15-ish. Right now it's very restricting. Just running off the stage to knee is nearly fatal. It also makes him too easy for many characters to combo. Several have got to have 0-deaths on him.

 

[ShortFuse]

I'm a Marth main since Melee days. Marth's aerials seems to lag now. They come out later than usually. Is that an intentional additional to the codeset? (nevermind, it seems like it's the changed buffer system that means i have to cstick exactly when i'm available)

Also, Luigi's UP+B is scarier now with this gravity setting. Jab, SHORYUKEN!

And shieldstun seems too good for Marth. fAir into grab is very reliable (more reliable than melee)

lulz

I just nAir, nAir, nAir, fAir, fAir Bowser to death off the stage.

fAir is way too broken. It's back to Melee style. In fact, it's better than Melee. A lot easier to chain
fAir fAir fAir fAir fAir combo against ganny just now. Meh. No skill needed, really.

It must be the weight, but nAir, nAir, nAir, fAir against Popo.

fAir has major shield chip. (i like breaking shields)
and fB kills easily with low ceilings now that there's no stale move negation

oh and Dash Cancel Grab (Dash, down, Z) is better than Shield Cancelled Grab since you don't have to wait 3~ frames to cancel the dash grab animation. It's 0/1 frame now

We have a new Brawl+ tech. Sweet.

What's also nice is Footstool Jump is actually useful and you can use it in combos.

 

[matt4300]

And shieldstun seems too good for Marth. fAir into grab is very reliable (more reliable than melee)

lulz

I just nAir, nAir, nAir, fAir, fAir Bowser to death off the stage.

fAir is way too broken. It's back to Melee style. In fact, it's better than Melee. A lot easier to chain
fAir fAir fAir fAir fAir combo against ganny just now. Meh. No skill needed, really.
.

I!!... yo.u... he.... sighhhh we all know bowser blows all the ball sacks of every char ... and is hyper blowing on mrs. marth... can't wait unil he can have a fair relatively even match with a good marth, and not blow marth after the match becuase he got Completely *****...

EDIT: Eh heh, sorry I guess its just kinda depressing for me.

 

[ShortFuse]

I!!... yo.u... he.... sighhhh we all know bowser blows all the ball sacks of every char ... and is hyper blowing on mrs. marth... can't wait unil he can have a fair relatively even match with a good marth, and not blow marth after the match becuase he got Completely *****...

Er... okay.

 

[cooler1339]

Marth seems like he is easily the best in B+ and it should stay that way

 

[Greenpoe]

Still think Falcon's too heavy. I would get rid of some of his dgrav. Maybe set it to 15-ish. Right now it's very restricting. Just running off the stage to knee is nearly fatal. It also makes him too easy for many characters to combo. Several have got to have 0-deaths on him.

Weight=/=Fall speed. Saying Falcon is too heavy means that he should die easier.

 

[wazgood]

oh and Dash Cancel Grab (Dash, down, Z) is better than Shield Cancelled Grab since you don't have to wait 3~ frames to cancel the dash grab animation. It's 0/1 frame now

We have a new Brawl+ tech. Sweet.

haha i posted that like 200 pages ago lol in the code agenda topic

 

[Eight 52]

Marth's Fair needs to get nerfed if it's as godly as you say, or at least have the shield stun on it reduced.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Marth's Fair needs to get nerfed if it's as godly as you say, or at least have the shield stun on it reduced.

I personally havnt seen it to be that godly. Good yes, but i don't believe you can chain it as well as he says. Against a computer yes. But against someone who can both DI well and tech i dont really see it being broken

 

[Greenpoe]

Give Bowser's down-B first-frame hyper-armor.

 

[the_judge]

Though I love Marth's new Fair game, it is OP.
It should have slightly less hitstun and less damage on shields.

On another note I thought I would hate MK's nerfs, but I actually don't find them horrible.
He is now moreso a damage racker rather than an offensive demon.

I agree that Marth is one of the best in B+ though.

 

[ShortFuse]

Marth seems like he is easily the best in B+ and it should stay that way

Have you even TRIED fox (he's my secondary)? He completely destroys. There's no stale move negation on the uSmash and with stronger downwards gravity his utilt spam is even better.

his dash attack has enough shieldstun to just constantly spam dash. oh and if you mess a tech (or you're not close enough to the ground), don't forget about the sliding uSmash. fThrow can chain into running upsmash at 90% or so.

looking at marth and fox, i think shieldstun is too high

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

why would you hate nerfs to the best character in the game wtf