Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[iamthemicrowave]

does falcon have a worse grab range than everyone above him on the tier list? im pretty sure he does. who loves grabbing people, being out of range, then them grabbing you while you lag after JC grab? I DO!! it happens 10000 times more with marth cuz yeah.

also what about when marths attack my shield with unspaced aerials, so i can shield grab them, but they grab me first? am i doing it wrong?

 

[tubes]

does falcon have a worse grab range than everyone above him on the tier list? im pretty sure he does. who loves grabbing people, being out of range, then them grabbing you while you lag after JC grab? I DO!! it happens 10000 times more with marth cuz yeah.

also what about when marths attack my shield with unspaced aerials, so i can shield grab them, but they grab me first? am i doing it wrong?

For everytime this has happened to me. I have shield grabbed people from behind my back at least 3 times.

And now that I look at Falcon's grab hitboxes. I wish there was some way I could dash-grab out of shield or somehow use that hitbox behind falcon in a not unrealistic and unnecessary manner.


Also as far as advice goes: try predicting when they'll grab and wavedash out of shield and punish. Or better yet, don't let Marth hit your shield at all.

 

[Scar]

i use the back grab hitbox all the time, it's weird but you can sort of tell when it's going to work, it's mostly when the other player is in a cooldown animation behind you after a laggy move, most chars when they're standing behind you even if they're really really close you won't grab them

very good vs aerials against hte back of your shield.. idk keep trying it and you'll figure out when it works and when it doesn't

but yeah CF's grab box is complete ****, good thing he's fast. dumb son of a *****.

 

[tubes]

i use the back grab hitbox all the time, it's weird but you can sort of tell when it's going to work, it's mostly when the other player is in a cooldown animation behind you after a laggy move, most chars when they're standing behind you even if they're really really close you won't grab them

very good vs aerials against hte back of your shield.. idk keep trying it and you'll figure out when it works and when it doesn't

but yeah CF's grab box is complete ****, good thing he's fast. dumb son of a *****.

It punishes dash attacks like the fist of the north star.

 

[Scar]

hahaha true

protip of 2009: in falcon dittos lots of people try to avoid tech chase regrabs with fB because raptor boost moves falcon's box to the side a bit before he goes for you

i've found that when i play against bad CFs (ultimascout lolol) and they try to tech chase regrab me, this trick never works because of falcon's horribly laggy stupid non-jump canceled grab box

so kids, sometimes it pays to not jump cancel.

 

[NES n00b]

It punishes dash attacks like the fist of the north star.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvD26Vbgov0

 

[Alukard]

i think my falcon is really ****ing legit ... scar? thoughts?

only cuz u told me how to gentleman

 

[arbustos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvD26Vbgov0

this has always been one of my favorite youtube videos. everyone in the world should watch it twice.


also if someone is recovering high should i ignore them and position myself to get a grab or try to uair or something and potentially get hit?

 

[Tomacawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVizuKAUJo&fmt=18
Critique????
1:33-2:05 is worth watching if you're too lazy to critique
also, I know I should be dding more to dodge utilts when he whiffs. but other than that, any advice is appreciated

 

[KAOSTAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVizuKAUJo&fmt=18
Critique????
1:33-2:05 is worth watching if you're too lazy to critique
also, I know I should be dding more to dodge utilts when he whiffs. but other than that, any advice is appreciated

For starters that moonwalk thing, probably not the best for tourney. Friendlys whatever, but its not that tricky and it limits your options terribly. You shouldnt be able to walk backwards and backair a standing marth.

Falcon can really only approach with nair, hope to get marth to commit, or fly by stomps, and sometimes backairs if they let the shield down early. Its better to face forward when you approach and hit with the tips of the nairs so u dont get shield grabbed.

You dash dances looked like you were just doing em cuz you watched youtube and thats what everyone else was doing. Try to feel it out a little more and mix up the lengths of forward and back so that you can get marth to commit to a move that you can punish or have him let his guard down so you can sneak a grab in.

walkoff uair at higher percents.
Nice combo.

 

[P.C. Jona]

basically dd camp until you get a grab
or a nair

then do a combo
like you did

if your getting *****, get away, get back to a neutral position then dd camp again

also dont always try to recover with dj knee
or dj airdodge

just grab the ledge
and mindgame
do like a clodzero back to the ledge in to another clodzero into a nair or idk
ssexy combo tho

 

[tubes]

basically dd camp until you get a grab
or a nair

then do a combo
like you did

if your getting *****, get away, get back to a neutral position then dd camp again

also dont always try to recover with dj knee
or dj airdodge

just grab the ledge
and mindgame
do like a clodzero back to the ledge in to another clodzero into a nair or idk
ssexy combo tho

what jona said only you don't have to go for just grabs. nair to **** or sometimes knee to **** works too.

and never approach marth ever unless you want sword up your ***. Don't approach, Punish!

Also just work on your dash dancing in general. You can't really dash into his range then dash out before he hits you. I'd recommend trying to keep about a marth forward smash of distance between you and him. Maybe a little less.

 

[BigD!!!]

i sat next to 2 japanese dudes on a plane and one of them knew who captain jack was

 

[Scar]

LEGITTTT

bigD is the ****

come back for pound4

 

[iamthemicrowave]

i sat next to 2 japanese dudes on a plane and one of them knew who captain jack was

maybe it was the musician captain jack from DDR

 

[Milos]

also if someone is recovering high should i ignore them and position myself to get a grab or try to uair or something and potentially get hit?

at high percents just position yourself near the edge and start charging a downsmash right after they reach the peak of their up b. if they go for the ledge time it so it hits them before they grab, if they land behind you release it right before they land, the back foot will catch them while they're in lag. they can DI the back foot though and survive up to really high percents, so this is not always the best option.

 

[Juggleguy]

Does jump-stomp out of shield only work if Fox/Falco overshoots their nair and mistimes the fast fall? Far too often I try punishing this way only to eat a shine. Do I just suck at spacing the jump before stomping?

 

[NES n00b]

Does jump-stomp out of shield only work if Fox/Falco overshoots their nair and mistimes the fast fall? Far too often I try punishing this way only to eat a shine. Do I just suck at spacing the jump before stomping?

I am just going to say that it doesn't work unless they let you make it work. Very risky to try stomp of shield against space animals now a days.

 

[Tomacawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QroY9VkyUk
critique this one too?

 

[tubes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QroY9VkyUk
critique this one too?

You do like 10x better against fox Jesus Christ! Only thing I have to say really is that raptor boost tech chases can be risky as a wrong prediction = stock.

However, I've heard from multiple people, who have more smash credentials then myself, that raptor boost is the best tech chase. Which makes me think maybe there's something I'm not seeing/doing it wrong.

When exactly is a safe and logical time to use raptor boost as a tech chase against characters with fast tech rolls? and what are the benefits of tech chasing with raptor boost vs. a stomp or knee?

If I could effectively use raptor boost as a tech chase then erry day I'd be boostin', but the reward just doesn't seem worth the risk.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you can use raptor boost to cover 2 or more options from a single tech chase.

 

[Scar]

I am just going to say that it doesn't work unless they let you make it work. Very risky to try stomp of shield against space animals now a days.

yeah it used to be broken as **** too

you can use raptor boost to cover 2 or more options from a single tech chase.

HOLY GERMAN MOUNTAINS BATMAN HE'S RIGHT

 

[Juggleguy]

If you uthrow and Fox/Falco doesn't DI, or DI's slightly away, you can dash forward a bit and raptor boost back to cover:

1) tech in place
2) no tech
3) tech back

Best part is even if they tech forward (the one option that isn't covered) it's still fairly difficult to punish you as you'd both be pretty far away from each other at that point. Near the edge, you might even be able to cover all four options... assuming they can't jump out of uthrow yet. They'd have to DI stupidly to put themselves in that poor position, though.

 

[tubes]

you can use raptor boost to cover 2 or more options from a single tech chase.

If you uthrow and Fox/Falco doesn't DI, or DI's slightly away, you can dash forward a bit and raptor boost back to cover:

1) tech in place
2) no tech
3) tech back

Best part is even if they tech forward (the one option that isn't covered) it's still fairly difficult to punish you as you'd both be pretty far away from each other at that point. Near the edge, you might even be able to cover all four options... assuming they can't jump out of uthrow yet. They'd have to DI stupidly to put themselves in that poor position, though.

...oh yea.

Spoiler

10chars

 

[P.C. Jona]

tech in place and no tech are kinda the same thing
because if you do a move there
if they do either one
they get hit

 

[JPOBS]

lol? its not "so easy". you must have very fast reactions to deal with falcons mediocre grab range. everything in smash has a counter. if you go for this everytime they can just miss a tech and get up attack you while you are running around their body.

if its so easy people would win more tournaments with falcon, more falcon mains would exist, the world would be a better place, yadda yadda

im pretty sure i stated they cud just not tech in that very post

 

[Tomacawk]

you know what covers more options than raptor boost?
falcon kick.
discuss.

 

[Strong Badam]

unfortunately falcon kiyick doesn't lead into anything

 

[Mokumo]

ive comboed it into a forward b before, but maybe my opponent was being stupid.

i use falcon kick to get out of tight situations near the ledge. if you hit them you dont get as much distance so if you miss on purpose it can help you run away.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

tech chase with falcon kick can successfully lead into another tech chase with falcon kick YES!

 

[tubes]

Falcon kicks a **** cool move but unfortunately you often get punished for using it hit or miss. Go Gannon when you want to Falcon kick is what I do.

edit: wait what? GG7's post intrigues me.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i dunno if you throw someone and techchase with falcon kick and you hit them, they'll have to tech again right? so you falcon kick again MUAHAHA

 

[Roneblaster]

GG7 speaks the truth, i mean who techs after getting falcon kicked?

i think your obligated by a universal law to **** up the tech.

 

[tubes]

I just can't imagine there'd be enough time to recover from the falcon kick and run back to the fox in time to techchase wether they tech'd it or not.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Dair- aerial falcon kick is pretty good because the opening hitbox has great downward knockback
It's a stupid combo but pretty cool

 

[TresChikon]

i dunno if you throw someone and techchase with falcon kick and you hit them, they'll have to tech again right? so you falcon kick again MUAHAHA

Infinites...

 

[Roneblaster]

Infinites...

i want my job please.

falcon kick infinites? 2 good.

too bad itll never happen

 

[BigD!!!]

i got consistent internet finally

**** will be real

scar i'll be back december 2nd so pound 4 is a 100% go

 

[Roneblaster]

big D + Scar team at pound 4? or am i just too tired and jumping the gun?

 

[Meneks]

i got consistent internet finally

**** will be real

scar i'll be back december 2nd so pound 4 is a 100% go

I wish i could go to pound 4