Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[NES n00b]

lol yeah right what about ganon and pichu and roy

they **** captain falcon up

also nice speech patters nes n00b after that after that after that. english n00b 2 lulzzzz

I have never said I could write well.

Maybe I should have just stuck with like a "tier list" like numbering system.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think you like should have stuck with like a "tier list" like numbering system too, NES n00b.

 

[Scar]

2 very good points by strongbad in his past 2 posts

****

 

[NES n00b]

Too many likes I get it. >_>

At least, I am comforted by the fact that Iori and Lambchops post with worse grammar.

 

[Ryan-K]

yeah well i find falco not that difficult tbh

 

[P.C. Jona]

hahhaha

anyways

i would argue fox and sheik are tied for difficulty

and gayness

 

[Mokumo]

falco is still super gay.

just not quite as bad as fox or sheik.

 

[KirbyKaze]

vs. Spacies, you have to get lucky or predict well with some tech chases.

I thought at this point in Smash development we were all operating with the understanding that Sheik, Marth, Fox (when he actually bothers to do so), and Falcon were all proficient tech chasers off pure reaction time in most matchups and didn't necessarily need to perform "reads" to get *****-damage off regrabs and other crap.

Unless your post is specifically aimed at setting up a KO, in which case then you're probably right.

 

[Ryan-K]

or even if you cant react alot of characters have techtraps and such. wooo

 

[Mogwai]

within the realm of reasonable human reaction time, you can't perfectly tech chase Spacies to my knowledge. I don't feel like doing frame analysis and **** right now, but my understanding of Falcon vs. Spacies techchasing is a 50/50 game where you try to react to tech rolls or stomp vs. neutral tech/no tech.

 

[Cia]

ICz are also really proficient tech chasers.

 

[Ryan-K]

within the realm of reasonable human reaction time, you can't perfectly tech chase Spacies to my knowledge. I don't feel like doing frame analysis and **** right now, but my understanding of Falcon vs. Spacies techchasing is a 50/50 game where you try to react to tech rolls or stomp vs. neutral tech/no tech.

it's easy to react to their tech as close to perfection as possible if you just do grabs because eventually you will get into a position where you can legitimately see where they are going or you can guess right to stomp or knee. but regrabs are very easy

 

[Afro_Chris]

Too many likes I get it. >_>

At least, I am comforted by the fact that Iori and Lambchops post with worse grammar.

lol yes bad gammer for the win!!!!!

 

[Juggleguy]

I like how we're arguing about which of the worst three, Sheik Fox Falco, are most difficult to play against.

It's irrelevant. They all possess more gayness and pressure ability than Falcon does, and I find it a great challenge to overcome that every match.

 

[`DNS`]

lol yes bad gammer for the win!!!!!

gammer?

10gammers

 

[NES n00b]

gammer?

10gammers

Exactly............

 

[KAOSTAR]

Fox is harder to kill than falco and sheik. Offensively, they are all gay.

nuff said.

 

[Strong Badam]

2 very good points by strongbad in his past 2 posts

****

my other post was legit

 

[tubes]

What I don't like about Fox Falco and Sheik personally is that all too often I go in to punish them for something only to get REVERSAL COMBO 500 POINT BONUS! This is especially bad against sheik forward tilt. I'm starting to think maybe I'm supposed to use mind games to figure out how they react to me attempting to punish forward tilt and punish their reaction instead.

Also I'm pretty sick of tech chasing spacies only to receive spotdodge--> stock. It wouldn't be so bad if when I tried it it worked for me too. Falcon spotdodge first hit --->get hit with something else ---> stock.

I've actually started using rolls to escape tech chases and it works more than it should.

 

[Reaver197]

Falcon's roll is better than his spotdodge.

 

[Scar]

yeah roll >> dodge

idk if you're not good enough at getting those grabs i'd recommend still going for them in friendlies, but if you're in tourney seriously try to slow it down and just space yourself in front of them with dash dancing and wait for that spotdodge

alternatively watch recent scar matches vs eggm, all i do is run up, shffl knee and it *****, they CC it a lot. regrab won't work if you're even a moment too slow, but the good thing is that you can feel that you're a little slow so try to be aware of that and mix-up your followups

 

[Reaver197]

My least favorite thing is predicting a spotdodge and stomping them to try and punish them for it, but it dodges the whole thing anyway.

Is knee better for hitting spotdodgers? It seems so at times.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i love not fastfalling my knee so they spotdodge but get hit anyway

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon too good.

Too bad he sucks.

 

[JPOBS]

tech-chasing spacies is only a guessing game if you choose to techchase with stomps or knees. then you have to worry about actually readign them.

but you could be a total ***** and techchase with regrabs on reaction. Downthrow, dance dance, to regrab is easy extremely easy.

the only flaw in this method is that if they choose to not tech on purpose, in the time it takes you to do a sh aerial on the spot, they can roll and escape.

but most spacie players fear inplace knees/stomps like the plague so they wont miss techs but when they do its like "u f***er!"

 

[Scar]

jpobs good luck regrabbing tech in place shine every time

 

[P.C. Jona]

just dash dance and make them spot dodge like 50 times lol

its pretty cool sometimes i just dash dance like crazy like in and out and they get scared its like llooooooool

 

[JPOBS]

true tech in place shine would be a problem. meh nothing perfect.

 

[Scar]

and if you're a little off on the grab vs anyone who dodges they can **** you, tech in place is hard to react to

 

[P.C. Jona]

thats why i always knee where tech in place/no tech in place goes
unless they just stop doing it then i go for grab

 

[NES n00b]

I've been able to react to tech in place stuff as long as I grab. In addition, I am able to stomp in place when people try to not tech in place somewhat consistently.

Stomping and kneeing is another thing entirely.

 

[P.C. Jona]

at lower percents kneeing is so much better because you can get a grab
with stomp you gotta wait till like 20 or a little more

you know i never really noticed how important tech chasing was until i understood that you cant just combo everything
theres combo and the tech chasing put them together and you get ****

 

[Scar]

you have a lot of practice doing it though, like i can do it if i'm like 100% in the zone but i'm not used to it at all so it's way harder, you have to get the dash out like immediately and control the spacing really well

when i do that i often can't get missed tech, i'm stuck in one frame of mind

eventually i'll break out of it though, melee habits are really hard to break for some reason

unless you're mango > everyone

edit @ jona i got better than 90% of falcon mains before i learned how to tech chase (which occurred the day before genesis). true story, combos ftw.

 

[JPOBS]

yea spotdodge -> stock is no fun if you're off by just a bit.

u can hit them with a non-fastfalled knee if u kno they will spotdodge right? does it hit with the sweet or sour spot?

 

[NES n00b]

you have a lot of practice doing it though, like i can do it if i'm like 100% in the zone but i'm not used to it at all so it's way harder, you have to get the dash out like immediately and control the spacing really well

when i do that i often can't get missed tech, i'm stuck in one frame of mind

That one frame of mind thing is the same kind of problem I am having testing new techchasing methods.

I am going to keep trying things in the next couple of months so....I dunno. If you guys find anything to make stuff like this easier don't hold out on me, cause I won't hold out on you guys.

 

[Strong Badam]

so yeah scar when are we doin that $100 mm?

 

[iamthemicrowave]

but you could be a total ***** and techchase with regrabs on reaction. Downthrow, dance dance, to regrab is easy extremely easy.

lol? its not "so easy". you must have very fast reactions to deal with falcons mediocre grab range. everything in smash has a counter. if you go for this everytime they can just miss a tech and get up attack you while you are running around their body.

if its so easy people would win more tournaments with falcon, more falcon mains would exist, the world would be a better place, yadda yadda

 

[Magus420]

It'd be better to dash then crouch where they hit the ground so you can CC JC grab getup attacks, and having near equal distance between rolls away/towards you. Getup attacks generally have high base KB and low growth, so it works to pretty high percents. I've had good success with this, and when I mess up it's usually either because the dash doesn't work right out of the crouch, I can't get into the proper position in time, or they're named Fox/Falco and have **** 1 frame invincible attacks out of techs in place =(

 

[KirbyKaze]

tech in place shine is gay, but it's still completely possible to react to them and grab them out of their tech.

 

[Scar]

That one frame of mind thing is the same kind of problem I am having testing new techchasing methods.

I am going to keep trying things in the next couple of months so....I dunno. If you guys find anything to make stuff like this easier don't hold out on me, cause I won't hold out on you guys.

yeah ill let you know

i mean all i do really is go for tech in place all the time, and now people know that i only chase that and tech forward so i'm starting to mix up stomp in place, raptor boost forward, and fade back dair to cover the 3 teching options, and throw in a few reaction regrabs here and there

its working really well

my whole thing is that with regrabs yeah it upsets people and like htey feel trapped and **** but you can't really abuse it bc it doesn't end stocks quite like a nice raptor boost or dair will

the key is a balance between frustrating people and getting reliable knee setups, and i think the best knee setup there is is a raptor boost

It'd be better to dash then crouch where they hit the ground so you can CC JC grab getup attacks, and having near equal distance between rolls away/towards you.

yeah i do this now too, it's hard to get it when they roll behind you, the turnaround timing before the dash is weird

i try to wd back turn around grab, is that unnecessary?

also i've had SOME success with fsmash after CCing fox's getup attack, which is ****

Tech in place shine is countered by not being slow.

thx sheik main

tech in place shine is gay, but it's still completely possible to react to them and grab them out of their tech.

thx edit, it's significantly more difficult than anything else CF has to do on reaction, but yes it's very possible.