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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
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Sunnyvale, CA
Since I have so quickly climbed to Melee's elite pro-status, since I am indeed one of the only players to have ever ended a teams tournament match with a flying falcon punch double KO, since I am, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most ELECTRIFYING man in Melee today, I feel that it is only appropriate for me to guide my fellow Falcon mains and help them reach the level that I have attained.

And if by some inadequacy of articulation you are left unable to match me in level of skill, at the very least, with my help, each and every one of YOUR matches will be more amazing, more exciting, more electrifying than ever before.

Yes, with my help, you too can have millions watching, holding their breath and waiting for each and every well-placed knee, cheering you on as you take one, two, three, and eventually four stocks.

So post your questions and read, cherish, and follow the glorious advice given by the Great One, Scar. But always remember to pay the sincerest of respects to those who have paved the way before us. Realize that we stand on the shoulders of giants. Remember the pioneers of Captain Falcon: Isai, Darkrain, SilentSpectre, the magnanimous G-Regulate, Jiano, Tapion, PC Jona, and many many others.

Our Falcon brothers, we salute you.

Show me your moves!
-Capt. D. J. Falcon
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,187
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
yay awesome thread :)
ill re-ask one of the questions i asked in g-regs thread lol
what do you do about ppl who keep diing down and away?
im fast enough to combo floaties and usually semi floaties who di down and away, but when heavyweights and semi fast fallers (like sheik and roy) it gets kinda impossible >.> :(
I can usually follow up things DI'd down and away with a really low shffl'd uair (asap out of the jump) but I can't follow that up with anything (except sometimes jabs and/or regrabs, but they're usually to far away for that). So I get like 2-3 hit combo's dont really lead anywhere
Any tips or should I just tech chase when they do that?
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
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Messages
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Sunnyvale, CA
As best as most Falcon pros can estimate, there are a few EXTREMELY uphill battles. One is vs Sheik. The only man to better this matchup to this date is Darkrain. Darkrain>Sheik>Falcon. This is because he somewhat inhumanly combos them to death from a single hit nearly every time. This is very apparently impossible for the average Falcon player.

However, basic Sheik strategy doesn't change much and it's easy to predict what she's going to do to spank you. The answer is usually ftilt. If they ftilt when you run up and grab, run up and shield. But when you shield an ftilt what do they do after? Ftilt.

Wavedash out of shield forward, back into shield, block another ftilt, and grab? That might work, but it's tough. WD back out of shield might be a better idea, you can start fresh from there, and you've closed the gap which is bad b/c she can needle camp you.

Basically you want to grab her before she hits you, be very wary of ftilt, try to bait it, remember that a well-timed stomp will go through it, but don't just jump at her or she'll probably fair you. Never let her live past 90 or you will be in trouble, uthrow knee at around that % for the kill.

Work on your combos and be SMART and be PATIENT.

The true key to this matchup is to get more experience, and don't continue to make the same mistakes you've already made, i.e. shffl knee into Sheik's ftilt.
 
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Parker1006

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 4, 2008
Messages
266
Location
Tallahassee, FL
thank you very much for the help Scar. My friend plays Sheik. I noticed that stomping can interrupt some of her tactics. I'll keep in mind your advice when in battles against the ******-ninja. Have a nice day.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
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what do you do about ppl who keep diing down and away?
Regrab.

Falcon has 3 viable options after uair/nair vs the 3 different (smart) DIs at lower %. It's very obvious if you think about it, and I can only produce this list because I have enough experience to recognize what's going to naturally follow up after reacting to DI. Use this list to try new things, but only after you see that something works should you implement it regularly.

After uair...
Up and away DI, uair.
Away DI, nair.
Down and away DI, grab.

After nair very low %s...
up and away DI, nair
away DI, regrab
down DI, predict a missed tech and knee/dair

after nair slightly higher %s...
up, uair
away, nair
down, regrab

This is NOT vs fastfallers, but vs almost everyone else this is a good rule of thumb.

Also, as an afterthought, vs floaties the answer is almost always uair uair uair, unless they DI down at low %s in which case nair usually combos into itself indefinitely.
 

Iceman12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
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364
Location
McKinleyville, CA
I seek Falco tips, lots of my buddies play Falco, and its just hard for me to get grabs in so I can tech chase and combo them. I usually counterpick dreamland 64, but what other stages are good for platform dashing to avoid lasers.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Nov 18, 2007
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17,679
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Spiral Mountain
magus, if sheik f-tilts your shield and hits with just the tip of her f-tilt, is there enough time to up+b out of shield and punish or is it unpunishable if she spaces?
 

Parker1006

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
266
Location
Tallahassee, FL
I seek Falco tips, lots of my buddies play Falco, and its just hard for me to get grabs in so I can tech chase and combo them. I usually counterpick dreamland 64, but what other stages are good for platform dashing to avoid lasers.
I suck at melee, but I think I might be able to help here. When it comes to grabs, I would avoid trying to compete against lazers. Most of your grabs are probably going to come after a whiffed punch or a kick by Falco. Pokemon Staduim can give you a little bit of platform help (especially during stage changes). My favorite stage against Falco is Rainbow Cruise. Captain Falcon is an ATHLETE. Rainbow cruise is like a jungle gym for this guy. Falco is a stiff moving character, and WDing into everything doesn't help but so much on a constantly moving stage. Also, the moving stage gives you an advantage against Falco's awful recovery and it doesn't give Falco a solid stage to set up shine combos. Mute City can gimp him (and you too ) if you feel ballsy. Hopefully I helped you against Falco a little bit. In short, punish Falco's CQC mistakes with grabs, and counterpick with moving/changing stages so Falco can't get comfortable. Have a nice day!
 

Guts-Rage

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
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27
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On The Shore Of Another World
Hello, Scar

I have played with Falcon for quite a while now. I really want to learn how to Moonwalk, I have checked Zhu's Moonwalking guide. I have seen many other videos also, Though I still don't get how to do it properly. I can Moonwalk only a small distance not too long. Well, that is about the only thing that gives me problems, I can do the rest SHHFling and every other pro tech with ease. BTW You have an awesome Falcon, Scar. I just watched your Combo Vid, It was Bad-Arse. hahaha Keep up the good work, man.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
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lol Thx and I suck @ moonwalking too, if you figure it out let me know.

I'll respond about Falco too, gimme a bit to think about it. Falco is dumb.
 
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Havokbringer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
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El Sobrante,CA
Ok there are 2 ways to do the moonwalk that SS does.

1.You dash in the direction you want to moonwalk in then dashdance the opposite direction but also start the moon walk and you should (if your fast enough) be able to fly pretty far backwards with 1 jump.

For example: Dash to the Right>then to the left but immediatly do the half circle motion for the moonwalk.

2.The funny but also effective way is to wavedash in the direction you want to moonwalk then start the moonwalk during the wavedash and it should have the same/close to the same effect.(This is what I use)

I'll post about Falco later.Hope that helped.
 

Iceman12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
364
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McKinleyville, CA
I used to suck at moonwalking too, but the best way to practice is just to practice in training mode for half an hour until you just become too ninja and it comes second hand. It really helped my edgeguarding game once I became good at it, for serious. moonwalked reverse knee edgehog is the greatest thing ever.
 

CanISmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
1,449
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Elmont LI, Queens. Philadelphia during semesters.
everybody sucks at explaining moonwalking.

the mewtwo vid taught me that and some advice from friends

basically you'll go as far as how fast you initial hit right or left. so the faster initially the better and basically you're just going right then left to right. ... (or vice versa) make an imaginary line in your head under the neutral position of the control stick and thats the line you move left to right across.
 

NES n00b

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,272
Location
Oxford, Mississippi. . . . permanent n00b
Since I have so quickly climbed to Melee's elite pro-status, since I am indeed one of the only players to have ever ended a teams tournament match with a flying falcon punch double KO, since I am, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most ELECTRIFYING man in Melee today, I feel that it is only appropriate for me to guide my fellow Falcon mains and help them reach the level that I have attained.

And if by some inadequacy of articulation you are left unable to match me in level of skill, at the very least, with my help, each and every one of YOUR matches will be more amazing, more exciting, more electrifying than ever before.

Yes, with my help, you, too can have millions watching, holding their breath and waiting for each and every well-placed knee, cheering you on as you take one, two, three, and eventually four stocks.

And as is fitting for the beginning of the end of a post at the end of a beginning of a thread, I will explain what will be at the end of the end of the end of the beginning: a quote, and my perpetual answer to the question, "Scar, how can I be more like you?"

"You motha****as could NEVER do it like I can do it, don't even try it, you'll look stupid. Do NOT pursue it."
-Eminem

Humble pie is not served in VA obviously. But your Falcon is good so I guess it is deserved. *shrug* And you are going to give me a money match in Event 52. =p Right?

It is good you actually want to help people with the smash bros.

Edit: Wait....you suck at Moonwalking? WHY SCAR WHY?!?!?!?!?
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,187
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
Hello, Scar

I have played with Falcon for quite a while now. I really want to learn how to Moonwalk, I have checked Zhu's Moonwalking guide. I have seen many other videos also, Though I still don't get how to do it properly. I can Moonwalk only a small distance not too long. Well, that is about the only thing that gives me problems, I can do the rest SHHFling and every other pro tech with ease. BTW You have an awesome Falcon, Scar. I just watched your Combo Vid, It was Bad-Arse. hahaha Keep up the good work, man.
Im pretty good at moonwalking so ill help out here
[cocky]i can moonwalk->edgehog with ganon without walking or WD:ing before or anything like that. I just roll to the edge and start moonwalking to edgehog like a champ. btw moonwalking across the stage with falcon is a cakewalk compared to that[/cocky]

First of all, the moonwalk does not start until you hold the control stick in the opposite direction that you dashed in initially.
The goal is not to make a half circle movement as fast as you can as many people think. The goal is to start a dash and put the control stick in the opposite direction that you dashed in ASAP without going through the middle.

Not holding the control stick in the direction you initially dashed in for to long is very important. I usually don't even smash the control stick all the way so I can move it back ASAP. If you hold the control stick in the direction that you initially dashed in for say 1-2 frames instead of something like 3-4 frames that will make a BIG difference.

The reason most people suck at moonwalking is because they don't realize this. They think they can hold the control stick in the direction they initially dashed for as long as they want basically, and that how fast they do the half circle motion decides how long their moonwalk will be. They're very wrong.

And making your movement as efficent as possible is also important. watch the beginning of this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jAL0i4xXk&fmt=18
They give an example of the control stick movement for a "good moonwalk". Using this small movement will allow you to take the control stick back much faster.

The longer your control stick is in the opposite direction that you initially dashed in during your moonwalk the longer your moonwalk will be.

Hope this helps :)
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
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Farfield
this is an interesting thread i like.seriously the only walk to get good at moon walking is practice.(Note:i heard SS is good at moon walking because he's left handed..just a note)i was wondering scar do you play anyone else than Falcon?i just wanted to know.cant wait for IKM 2.

i was wondering if you can check out my falcon thread pls

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193966
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
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Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
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Farfield
and the thing is.....its not that you suck at moon walking..you play really fast because when i play fest sometimes i cant do it lol.other than you darkrain was the first falcon player i studied and liked.i cant wait to see you guys play each other...

peace
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
585
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Farfield
the way i think of it is when you put in the half-circle motion make sure you hold back all the way when your at the edge guaranteed you slide off all the way..same thing when wave land of edges to so you wont get stuck.sometimes changing the speed messes me up.i only change the speed when i practice scar jumping a little.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
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Savannah, Georgia
*nair shine upsmash*
nub, it's nair, shine, grab, u-tilt, upsmash. Get it right, GAWD!
;P

Any help with Falco matchups? I have trouble getting a hit in because my opponent is good at keeping pressure with Shines, lasers, and dairs. basically shine dair shine dair lazer when im not near him. It's so predictable but I find it hard to get by. Whenever I try to attack out of shield, it seems he knows exactly what I do and he full jumps into a dair that usually leads to my stock taken off by the end.
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
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Atlanta, Ga
What would Captain Falcon say if someone asked him, "What would you do for a Klondike bar?"
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
Okay, I have a certain "button dilemma." I don't know whether I should shffl with Z or the c-stick. I can do it with both, but the Z sometimes makes me do JC grabs. But with the c-stick I have "dead air time" after my shorthop before I get to the stick. Both feel comfortable. Should I go with Z, or just try to speed up with the c-stick?
 

Havokbringer

Smash Lord
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El Sobrante,CA
Okay, I have a certain "button dilemma." I don't know whether I should shffl with Z or the c-stick. I can do it with both, but the Z sometimes makes me do JC grabs. But with the c-stick I have "dead air time" after my shorthop before I get to the stick. Both feel comfortable. Should I go with Z, or just try to speed up with the c-stick?
You should always use c-stick.

Moowalking is too easy for all these long and complicated descriptions.

You just have to practice the regular moonwalk till you can grab the ledge, then

put the dash dance motion in it.You need that forword momentum from Falcons

dash right before the moonwalk to send him farther.
 

Magus420

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Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
You can actually moonwalk farther by not dashdancing, because when in a DD you need to hold 2 frames in the down/backwards range before you can hold full back or you'll turn around instead. Outside of a DD though you can go directly from forward to holding back with nothing inbetween needed but it's obviously very hard to move that quickly.
 

Magus420

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If you do the DD moonwalk too quickly you'll just turn and run in the direction you wanted to move with the moonwalk instead. Maybe you're pivot crouching and then you end up not dashing?


Also, I posted this in the Ganon forums recently:
My Falcon one was epic, lol.

http://www.mediafire.com/?t8nguxrsxmi

When you do the dash forward, try to press it the minimum amount forward needed to trigger the dash so you'll have less distance to travel backwards and can reach it faster.

Ideally, you'll want to press forward then on the very next frame be holding fully back like I did for the Falcon one, but that's really ****ing hard to do fast enough. If there's a neutral frame read by the game inbetween those then when you press back it will just make you dashdance instead.

If you instead go forward then skim down and around just below the neutral area you can keep the distance almost as short, but not have to worry about doing it in 1 frame.

If you do it out of a dashdance though, there needs to be at least 2 frames in the down/away area before you can hold back or you just turn around, so you can't do the straight line method out of one and need to do the curve downwards for it. If you can't do it much faster than a DD one allows anyway to make use of the greater potential when not in a DD, you'll probably get better results when DDing because it seems like there's less forward momentum from its dash or something.

When you multimoonwalk the ones after the first will always be able to be longer than what you can get with just one because the forward movement of the dash is reduced.
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
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Farfield
instead of dashing or not dashing i wave dash backwards and moonwalk and its you a long sliding animation if u fast enough...
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,187
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Göteborg, Sweden
Pivot crouching? I didn't even know that was possible. I don't crouch though, I just do the turnaround animation, but you can't crouch during the turnaround animation so... Most likely that's what I do.
and OMG that is an epic moonwalk.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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Oh, I believe you're not triggering a dash in the other direction after the turn.

So if you wanted to moonwalk to the left in a DD, when that happens you're dashing to the left, then hitting right to trigger a turn, but on the turning frame you're already moving back to the left for the moonwalk and aren't in the area that would make you dash to the right, and then since you can't dash to the left a 2nd time out of the pivot's turn hitting left after that does nothing.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
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Sunnyvale, CA
I seek Falco tips
The initial question was about counterpick stages vs. Falco. I think counterpick stages are LAME and I never choose them, I just try to get better at the actual matchup and hope that stage really doesn't matter.

Neutral Stages vs. Falco
Yoshi's is probably not a great idea, even though you can scarjump gimp so easily there and it's just combo video fodder,
Fountain is bad for both character,
FD is traditionally a very bad idea since he can combo you relentlessly, no platforms to help you avoid lasers or recover, etc etc
Battlefield is probably your best bet, big enough, lames Falco's fB every once in a while (and your dj, be careful) nice sized/height platforms
DL64... eh
and Stadium. Transformations are the worst ever, but the neutral stage is pretty sweet.

Onto general Falco tips. As everyone surely knows, you still get hit by lasers when you sh, but sh nair jumps over them. This is good for general maneuverability, unless the Falco can shoot lots of lasers really quickly, you can run around and nair and avoid most of them. This is your best approach as well, since nair will combo into grab. If you can't do anything out of grab then that's what you need to work on, tech chases, prediction, if you ever hit a stomp >50% plz plz knee out of it, otherwise do what you do, there are plenty of options.

The point of the match is to get that first nair before Falco hits you and therefore combos you to death.

Nair can be cc shined, which will probably kill you, so be smart about it.. Also, if Falco shoots high lasers, they will hit your nair, but you can mix up with raptor boost, which will go under high lasers. Mix those up and that's your basic "first hit" game.

When your shield is being pressured, dair out of shield is your best friend. You can literally dair out of shield vs pillaring or even fox nairshines for a VERY long time on your way to Falcon superstardom... it works on low- and mid-level players almost every time. You'll have to break the habit as you (and your opponents) get better, but keep trying it and be creative. Dair out of shield jumps over grab, shine, jab, and even avoids nair sometimes. Find out when it works and abuse it.

Falco is a tough match. No time to think (lasers), no room for error (combos), just make sure if he's ever offstage he never gets back on. Dtilt at the ledge vs fB is very good, especially if the Falco is under pressure to recover quickly (unless they're incredible at sweetspotting), otherwise wait there for upB and weak knee>uair them out of it. In pressure situations I typically ALWAYS jump out there with knee hanging out, again, this will hit low- to mid-level Falco players for a LONG time.

I used to suck at moonwalking too, but the best way to practice is just to practice in training mode for half an hour until you just become too ninja and it comes second hand.
This quote also applies to becoming good at Smash in general. Practice, you'll get it.

Humble pie is not served in VA obviously.
1) Correct, it is not
2) I'm from Philadelphia
3) See you @ Event 52

i was wondering scar do you play anyone else than Falcon?i just wanted to know.cant wait for IKM 2.
NO. And IKM2 will be incredible.

Should I go with Z, or just try to speed up with the c-stick?
The advice you were given is perfect, use the c-stick. Keep playing and eventually there will be none of that dead air time, you'll have your moves out instantly.

Play around with how you smack the stick, just try to hit it in the desired direction with whatever part of your finger/palm you have available. In the beginning you might put out a dair instead of a knee but eventually your muscle memory will kick in and you'll get more accurate.

Oh I see. Magus delivers again ^_^
Magus, in my experience, always delivers.
 
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