Havokbringer
Smash Lord
Hey Scar take a look at my videos and let me know what you think: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197283
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
bahamutz69
Smash Journeyman
awsome thanks scar 
the thing about the uairs ending animation was really helpful, im pretty sure thats why i was sding as often as i was.
tips on dropzone? does it have to do with starting the knee right when u leave the platform or is it jumping right when the knee animation ends? i just have trouble getting back to the stage.
thanks!
the thing about the uairs ending animation was really helpful, im pretty sure thats why i was sding as often as i was.tips on dropzone? does it have to do with starting the knee right when u leave the platform or is it jumping right when the knee animation ends? i just have trouble getting back to the stage.
thanks!
Hey I just picked up Falcon recently and I have run into a little trouble with him:
1. What are my options for KOs when my opponent is at higher percents? U-air edgeguard and hope a knee lands?
2. I am having some trouble landing grabs at mid-range. Short-range is easy enough, longer range is possible with dashes, I just can't get one when my opponent is between the ranges of a standing grab and a JC-grab. How do I land these? Am I doing my JCs poorly?
3. Along the same lines, I am having some trouble following throw-knee DI. Hitting them without DI and when they DI towards me is really easy now for me, but it's when they DI away from me that I have trouble. Do I need to dash before I jump or just jump and hold towards them as I do so?
4. Finally, I might be going to E54. Would you like to MM (like $5 lol)?
Thanks
1. What are my options for KOs when my opponent is at higher percents? U-air edgeguard and hope a knee lands?
2. I am having some trouble landing grabs at mid-range. Short-range is easy enough, longer range is possible with dashes, I just can't get one when my opponent is between the ranges of a standing grab and a JC-grab. How do I land these? Am I doing my JCs poorly?
3. Along the same lines, I am having some trouble following throw-knee DI. Hitting them without DI and when they DI towards me is really easy now for me, but it's when they DI away from me that I have trouble. Do I need to dash before I jump or just jump and hold towards them as I do so?
4. Finally, I might be going to E54. Would you like to MM (like $5 lol)?
Thanks
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
utilt is a great edgeguarding move for higher percents if you want to stay safe on the stage, ledgehop bair or moonwalked bair work well also.
I'll let scar handle this one, he can probably explain it better than I can. Just practice your jc grabs, and like everything else in smash, you will get it down.
Dash so you get the momentum you need to catch up to them and knee while they're in hitstun, falcon carries a lot of momentum in his jump, use it.
Come to Cali and I'll mm you for sure. Check out my youtube channel too, the video's are a few months old, and I've gotten a lot better since then, but any critique helps.
Scar
#HarveyDent
No DI on uthrow?? Full jump uair and uair again on the way down, son!
Or do this.
Already did bro, I even commented on the second one on YouTube.
Both. Dropzone doesn't have too much room for error, so just try to knee immediately, never fastfall or you will die, and dj asap. Once you get it down perfectly, you can actually recover onto the stage without grabbing the ledge.
1. Try not to let them get to high %s, but if they do, then yes, uair and then edgeguard, iceman pointed out your safest effective edgeguards.
2. You're probably just messing up your jc grabs. If your opponent is spacing himself right there on purpose I suppose I'd suggest pivot grabbing, but that's kinda tough.
3. Dash before you jump, this can get tricky too, you really have no choice other than to be both fast and accurate.
4. Sure haha see you there.
Doomgaze
Smash Apprentice
Regarding dropzones, use the C-stick instead of A to perform the knee and you wont risk going into a dash before you run of the ledge.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Scar-Oh yhea full jump double uairs for the ****! Totally forgot about those.
I tested doing it on marth at 30%, with no DI on the uthrow and then DI on the first uair down and away
if you space yourself correctly and time everything right you're actually able to hit him with the second uair on the way down (even if they DI the uair perfectly!)
How early/late would you time the nair (in the jump) if you do this? Do you land during the auto cancel frames or do you l cancel it? (Just curious.)
I tested doing it on marth at 30%, with no DI on the uthrow and then DI on the first uair down and away
if you space yourself correctly and time everything right you're actually able to hit him with the second uair on the way down (even if they DI the uair perfectly!)
No , that sounds really cool. Heh, comboing full jump nairs->more full jump nairs like in that darkrain hrc vid would be really cool.
How early/late would you time the nair (in the jump) if you do this? Do you land during the auto cancel frames or do you l cancel it? (Just curious.)
Magus420
Smash Master
You start it right as you leave the ground and hit them on the way up with the 1st kick, then the 2nd kick comes out without hitting them at the peak of your jump when they're below you, and then you fastfall back through them and time it to hit with the end of the 2nd kick's hitbox window. It's out for 10 frames so hitting late with the 2nd hitbox so you're already on the way down gains you a lot of time to combo off of it compared to other aerials used as you leave the ground from a jump.
It should autocancel unless you wait too long to start it. It's good for comboing at low damage and when they're in that general area where they're too high for a SH n-air and you might not be able to combo them with u-airs.
It should autocancel unless you wait too long to start it. It's good for comboing at low damage and when they're in that general area where they're too high for a SH n-air and you might not be able to combo them with u-airs.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
That's really cool magus... I tested it and it *****, you can do full jump nairs->full jump nairs at fairly low percent :O You can also easily combo it into full jump double uairs really easily. Nair hitstun=to good.
best thing about it is that it counters almost all type DI. If they DI down and away they just come closer to the ground and you can start shffling them. DI'ing up wont help much unless they're very high in the air to begin with and even they are you can hit them atleast 1-2 times more, which is good damage.
Thanks scar and magus
BTW- someone asked about uair->double jump knee, i remember someone asking this in g-regs thread and he said it starts working 55->60%. But like scar said it's not easy to do. You usually have to fast fall before you double jump to position yourself correctly.
Remember that uair->double jump uair will kill most characters without great recoveries, also.
best thing about it is that it counters almost all type DI. If they DI down and away they just come closer to the ground and you can start shffling them. DI'ing up wont help much unless they're very high in the air to begin with and even they are you can hit them atleast 1-2 times more, which is good damage.
Thanks scar and magus
BTW- someone asked about uair->double jump knee, i remember someone asking this in g-regs thread and he said it starts working 55->60%. But like scar said it's not easy to do. You usually have to fast fall before you double jump to position yourself correctly.
Remember that uair->double jump uair will kill most characters without great recoveries, also.
Scar
#HarveyDent
To my knowledge no one ever does uair falling knee besides me, and I have only done it in tourney about 4 times ever.
-vs stupid Sheiks/Marths who expect a second uair and want to save their dj. They can (and should) dj out --or God forbid, fair-- because uair hitstun sux and knee comes out relatively slowly.
-vs Fox/Falco/Falcon if they DI incorrectly or the %s just so happen to be perfect. I think they can DJ out too, but no one expects the knee b/c again, no one ever does it.
The second one is the typical stale Falcon combo, full jump uair, after the animation ends either ff dj (fastfall double jump) or just dj knee.
Again, this is difficult to do because
-uair hitstun is not that great
-the DI is often times difficult to read
-you really need to dj knee fast, as soon as the uair animation ends.
The third is awesome vs like faster falling characters who DI the uair very well, the uair stun is huge and if they DI up and in, sometimes you have enough time to land and quickly run to them, jump dj knee.
What I think you meant was full jump uair, land, full jump knee. That's a typical combo and it's awesome, much more reliable than dj knee IMO, situation dependent of course.
It's kind of hard to talk about smash like this but all of these things are very quick, and more/less simple things. If they seem overly complicated then that's my fault for poor articulation.
Nah its fine if had experince in all the melee lingo (Even though i was in the godforsaken game that is brawl for 4 months).
Another question (Hopefully not bothering you >.>)
Is it wise to use Falcon's WaveDash alot or no due to being to short i mainly use it to stop my DD or to Waveshield or edgehog.
Another question (Hopefully not bothering you >.>)
Is it wise to use Falcon's WaveDash alot or no due to being to short i mainly use it to stop my DD or to Waveshield or edgehog.
Scar
#HarveyDent
So long as it's doing what you want it to be doing, it's an excellent tool for all of those things and more, spacing in general.
bahamutz69
Smash Journeyman
ahh i had a feeling Dropzone would be a pain to learn. i also cant moonwalk very well, ive been getting better just form going to training and slowing down/speeding up the time or using bunny hoods but i can never get it like you or SS
EmuKiller
Smash Ace
If only M2K can help others with clear advice, none of these ask scar, cactuar, cort...etc threads would be needed.
Scar
#HarveyDent
a) This thread is an opportunity for me, Scar, the great one, to speak straight to the people. What could be more necessary than that?
b) M2K gives phenomenal advice, lol. Granted, a lot of the time he just says "I don't exactly know, I just feel it when I play." That is actually often times my answer, too, but I try to put myself in the situation and think about what I would do, just like any other normal human. lol Does not compute for M2K.
b) M2K gives phenomenal advice, lol. Granted, a lot of the time he just says "I don't exactly know, I just feel it when I play." That is actually often times my answer, too, but I try to put myself in the situation and think about what I would do, just like any other normal human. lol Does not compute for M2K.
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Lol. Hey, when I tech chase, what move should I do? I mean should I stomp, knee, raptor boost etc.? Which is the best choice? Sorry if this is a noobish question. I wanted to know if I have options.
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Personally, I just keep grabbing until they stop teching and then plant knee in face. All the options are good though, raptor boost tech chase is nice because it covers all three tech options and is a free knee.
edit: I thought up a saying today, tech in place equals knee in face.
edit: I thought up a saying today, tech in place equals knee in face.
Scar
#HarveyDent
Yeah you have a ton of options and it comes down to personal preference, and really depends on what you think they're going to do. If someone always techs towards the edge of the stage, knee b/c then they'll be sent far offstage.
If someone always techs in the same place and they aren't yet at killing %s, stomp>stomp is an incredible option, that's like 30% dg right there. If you really have no clue then raptor boost is good b/c it covers more than one tech option.
All of them are viable, none of them are downright stupid, so just play around with them and figure out what works best for you.
If someone always techs in the same place and they aren't yet at killing %s, stomp>stomp is an incredible option, that's like 30% dg right there. If you really have no clue then raptor boost is good b/c it covers more than one tech option.
All of them are viable, none of them are downright stupid, so just play around with them and figure out what works best for you.
JFox
Smash Hero
How do I beat Peach using Captain Falcon?
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
JFox made a funny, lolol. I hope you aren't serious though ;x.
edit: yo Scar, would you mind checking out a couple of my vids in my channel, they're kind of old and Ive improved a lot since then, but some critique doesnt hurt ;p.
edit: yo Scar, would you mind checking out a couple of my vids in my channel, they're kind of old and Ive improved a lot since then, but some critique doesnt hurt ;p.
JFox
Smash Hero
Do i know u?
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
No, but I know you're a peach main,, and a pretty darn good one, but you were probably joking ;p. You never know, we may meet by some odd twist of fate and play smash ;p.
NES n00b
Smash Master
You don't. =P
Edit: Oh ****, I thought you meant the other way around. lol I mean you knee her in the face....or just combo her after dash dance camping for a long time.
Magus420
Smash Master
If it's JFox's Peach then some combos I find to be highly effective are:
D-Air->Stomp->Stomp
Stomp->D-Air->Nipple Spike->D-Air
D-Air->Air-Stomp->D-Spike->Nipple-Stomp
CanISmash
Smash Lord
i remember i use to play peach and discovered the beauty that peach spreading her legs open for falcon with f-tilt is amazing.
also how do i beat fox with c.falc?
:D
also how do i beat fox with c.falc?
:D
JFox
Smash Hero
LOL, Magus fawk you. I def need to play you again.If it's JFox's Peach then some combos I find to be highly effective are:
D-Air->Stomp->Stomp
Stomp->D-Air->Nipple Spike->D-Air
D-Air->Air-Stomp->D-Spike->Nipple-Stomp
Scar
#HarveyDent
JFox next time I play you (if you can make it to me in tourney lolol) I'm using Magus combos on you all day.
How do you beat Fox? It's easier than beating Falco, I'll tell you that much. Much to learn you have about that matchup, it becomes VERY difficult vs high level smart/technical players. I'll share this knowledge soon.
How do you beat Fox? It's easier than beating Falco, I'll tell you that much. Much to learn you have about that matchup, it becomes VERY difficult vs high level smart/technical players. I'll share this knowledge soon.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Easier then beating falco? I thought it was the opposite. Falco's recovery is soo easy to gimp (compared to fox's)
Despite Falco's bad recovery, Falco is much better at controlling Falcon than Fox is. There are many ways to get around both characters, though. Just wait for Scar to descend from the heavens with his ultimate wisdom given to him by Falcon himself.
Neverender
Smash Journeyman
Falco is just really good at controller enemies, and pressuring them. Falcon being the prime example.
JFox
Smash Hero
LOL, only magus can tech chase dair me like that. Your tech chases are balls.
Ja
Smash Journeyman
Scar/Magus are there any bad habits I might have? I know this is very vague, but for example I had to relearn how to lcancel because I never knew you weren't supposed to press it all the way down, and I don't believe that's in a single guide. Were there any bad habits that either of you had to train yourself out of?
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Why can't you press it all the way down anyway?
JFox
Smash Hero
You can press it all the way down, you just can't hold it down for too long, otherwise you will put up a shield.
There are tons and tons of bad habits that happen to all smashers. Like for example, you should be using the C-stick for all smash attacks and aerials. And u should be using the Y button. And you should be wavedashing with the opposite trigger that you shield with.
You shouldn't sit in shield much. You shouldn't constantly storm your opponent with "safe" attacks (nair jab, knee jab, etc) cuz nothing is really safe in this game. You should never get into the habit of playing on autopilot, try to think as much as you can while you play about everything your opponent is doing. Always have a technique down before relying on it in tourney. Never let your ego get to you, cuz that is when you will stop trying to improve. Don't roll out of nervousness, its what people are waiting for. Eat a healthy breakfast.
LOL
There are tons and tons of bad habits that happen to all smashers. Like for example, you should be using the C-stick for all smash attacks and aerials. And u should be using the Y button. And you should be wavedashing with the opposite trigger that you shield with.
You shouldn't sit in shield much. You shouldn't constantly storm your opponent with "safe" attacks (nair jab, knee jab, etc) cuz nothing is really safe in this game. You should never get into the habit of playing on autopilot, try to think as much as you can while you play about everything your opponent is doing. Always have a technique down before relying on it in tourney. Never let your ego get to you, cuz that is when you will stop trying to improve. Don't roll out of nervousness, its what people are waiting for. Eat a healthy breakfast.
LOL
Ja
Smash Journeyman
You can it works, but you won't be able to tech. If you lcancel with a "lightshield" you can still tech. Thank you Magus!
CanISmash
Smash Lord
^ -_- WOW. why couldn't that have been stated 2 years ago when I just started learning. That's such useful information why l-cancel when you can z-cancel. I knew you could do it but I didn't know it saved your tech incase you messed up or something.
also jfox it's all about preference. but c stick for aerils is recommended. its the only way to have full di control while performing aerials. e.g. retreating f-airs.
also jfox it's all about preference. but c stick for aerils is recommended. its the only way to have full di control while performing aerials. e.g. retreating f-airs.
Ja
Smash Journeyman
No by lightshield I mean you just press the shield trigger lightly. Which on the ground produces a light shield. Lightly press means not ALL the way in for a hard shield. I doubt z lets you lcancel moves.
musashi
Smash Apprentice
Hey Scarr, I got a question about techchasing against Fox and Falco.
Is there a pattern to techchase?
Like for example when you grab and d throw them really fast at low % they will most of the time miss the tech or tech just in there.
I've noticed that most of the times when you u throw and the oponent DIs away from you and you run towards them, they will tech roll towards you.
I've also noticed that people tend to roll toward the edge most of the time.
Is there any pattern i'm missing? I barely read any moves and the patterns i've mentioned are really vague and barely work unless i'm playing against a low skill player :/
If you could help me out with these patterns it would definetly improve my game against spacies, which I think are the worst matchup against C Falcon and they are the chars that are mostly used.
Also, i've started to think these patterns work against most players or maybe every player techs differently?
Thanks!
Is there a pattern to techchase?
Like for example when you grab and d throw them really fast at low % they will most of the time miss the tech or tech just in there.
I've noticed that most of the times when you u throw and the oponent DIs away from you and you run towards them, they will tech roll towards you.
I've also noticed that people tend to roll toward the edge most of the time.
Is there any pattern i'm missing? I barely read any moves and the patterns i've mentioned are really vague and barely work unless i'm playing against a low skill player :/
If you could help me out with these patterns it would definetly improve my game against spacies, which I think are the worst matchup against C Falcon and they are the chars that are mostly used.
Also, i've started to think these patterns work against most players or maybe every player techs differently?
Thanks!
Magus420
Smash Master
That was JFox that replied not me, lol. Oddly enough though, if you hadn't mentioned that exact thing that's what I would've said, since I used to do that also and relearned how to l-cancel like 2 years ago. While I was at it I also switched to using R to l-cancel and shielding/lightshielding with R since I usually wavedash with L. I still powershield with L though since it tends to work better using my left finger.
Also Z does l-cancel since it's basically L/R + A. I use it in the rare event I use Sheik and do SH needle charges and want to cancel it into an aerial I'll quickly tap Z 3 times to cancel the charge, do the aerial, and then l-cancel it as well.
Also Z does l-cancel since it's basically L/R + A. I use it in the rare event I use Sheik and do SH needle charges and want to cancel it into an aerial I'll quickly tap Z 3 times to cancel the charge, do the aerial, and then l-cancel it as well.