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Oh, really? That's pretty cool lol, I wasn't actually expecting that at all tbh And yeah, I feel like aside from arrows (vksdfvsdkfvj), recovering against Pit would be kinda like RPS with Pit setting up for a nice gimp or getting one if he wins and Wolf getting back to the ledge otherwise.
When you are doing match-up ratios for characters with poor approaches but great defensive games like Mr. Game & Watch, how do you apply a ratio to them?
I mean, Mr. Game & Watch only loses around -1 to Meta Knight if he has the lead, but if MK has the lead it can very easily turn into -3. Do you just assume that he does/doesn't have the lead at all times, or do you take into account how easily he can get the first hit compared to his opponent, etc...?
Each panel has a different train of thought. Its like character boards discussing ratios except you gotta get an invitation to take part in the discussion.
they'll probably take in account what they think the MU ratio is based off their experience.
When you are doing match-up ratios for characters with poor approaches but great defensive games like Mr. Game & Watch, how do you apply a ratio to them?
I mean, Mr. Game & Watch only loses around -1 to Meta Knight if he has the lead, but if MK has the lead it can very easily turn into -3. Do you just assume that he does/doesn't have the lead at all times, or do you take into account how easily he can get the first hit compared to his opponent, etc...?
Idk how others do it, but I try to figure out who'd be able to get the lead the easiest or can force an approach more effectively, etc. That seems to work fairly well. MUs in Brawl are somewhat dynamic though, I really hope more people do write-ups because a number only says so much :x
Wolf vs pika would be interesting without the cg, even from the beginning of the game he at least had fthrow upsmash. I think it would be hard to say who would win since the game would develop a lot differently, but both characters are extremely well rounded so I think it would be very close one way or another.
When you are doing match-up ratios for characters with poor approaches but great defensive games like Mr. Game & Watch, how do you apply a ratio to them?
I mean, Mr. Game & Watch only loses around -1 to Meta Knight if he has the lead, but if MK has the lead it can very easily turn into -3. Do you just assume that he does/doesn't have the lead at all times, or do you take into account how easily he can get the first hit compared to his opponent, etc...?
From what I understand the BBR as a whole does not make this judgement, but rather the GWs who participate in the discussion. Your best bet would be to speak with these GWs. Its probably appropriate to have the list in this thread.
Wolf vs pika would be interesting without the cg, even from the beginning of the game he at least had fthrow upsmash. I think it would be hard to say who would win since the game would develop a lot differently, but both characters are extremely well rounded so I think it would be very close one way or another.
From what I understand the BBR as a whole does not make this judgement, but rather the GWs who participate in the discussion. Your best bet would be to speak with these GWs. Its probably appropriate to have the list in this thread.
Fthrow>Usmash isn't even that amazing. has 2 Dthrows>Usmash, which does much more damage. He even can get an Uair in if he predicts it. And we're even with that f@gg0t.
Iirc, I think I recall ESAM mentioning that fthrow buffered usmash works at a lot of percentages on FFers. Plus with the potential of a thunder read, it has a lot more damage or juggle potential.
Wolf vs pika would be interesting without the cg, even from the beginning of the game he at least had fthrow upsmash. I think it would be hard to say who would win since the game would develop a lot differently, but both characters are extremely well rounded so I think it would be very close one way or another.
I meant like Wolf vs Peach lol, not Pika vs Peach xD sorry for not being clear Wolf vs Peach is 0 on this MU chart but a good amount of people on both sides feel it's +1, mostly due to Seagull being awesome at the MU :3
Also, I thought Pika couldn't usmash Wolf out of dthrow due to shine (@ Seagull)
I meant like Wolf vs Peach lol, not Pika vs Peach xD sorry for not being clear Wolf vs Peach is 0 on this MU chart but a good amount of people on both sides feel it's +1, mostly due to Seagull being awesome at the MU :3
Also, I thought Pika couldn't usmash Wolf out of dthrow due to shine (@ Seagull)
He can't Usmash us out of Dthrow, but he can out of Fthrow at lower percents. Even if DI's a Nair downward he won't die after the cg ends lol, but it'd be a dumb thing to do. Just memorize percents. Usmash won't kill out of cg, but it can set him up to be thundered if he doesn't play his cards right...
If you're talking about that spike pillaring thing, if you buffer a spotdodge, he can only continue it if he jabs, aka the grab isn't guaranteed. Made Nerd and FILIP stop doing it to me after awhile.
Of course you can always get hit after the dthrow X3 to about as much too I guess.
Also, ROB's tilts/jab are really good, not a lot of people know this.
Fthrow>Usmash isn't even that amazing. has 2 Dthrows>Usmash, which does much more damage. He even can get an Uair in if he predicts it. And we're even with that f@gg0t.
pikachu couldl fthrow chaingrab> usmash I think for 4 throws for about 40-50% before the dthrow one came out.
Also the best punish for pikachu out of his dthrow chaingrab is his guaranteed footstool > QAL > charged fsmash/thunder KO. But most pikas will usually go for the simple usmash/nair since that doesnt require practice really.
Also the best punish for pikachu out of his dthrow chaingrab is his guaranteed footstool > QAL > charged fsmash/thunder KO. But most pikas will usually go for the simple usmash/nair since that doesnt require practice really.
Not SDI'd enough to save you :x there's no uair, so you're basically stuck on the ground where Pika has a gigantic range in which he can lock you thanks to QA. Then once he's done and you're at like 115% anyways, you're basically guaranteed dead when he hits you with thunder / charged fsmash.
tbh im not even sure you can SDI the uair footstool. Its an aerial so pikachu has the ability to follow SDI, and no one ever SDIs out of MKs uair string which is even more predictable and SDIable.
Its not really relevant though, since its rare that youll see it attempted.
Oh and nobody SDI's out of MK's uair because it's a frame 2 move, you can't react to it, you have plenty of time during Pikachu's chain-grab to prepare for the uair.
Even during MK's uair string, if he SL's you and you were trying to SDI the uair, you've just DI'd down and are begging to be gimped.
Edit: Does Pikachu have a guaranteed footstool even without the uair? If so I'd like to see the frame data for that.
Wario can actually chaingrab Ganondorf from 0% to 90%. Also Wario has the speed to out speed Ganon's terrible speed.
Air releasing with Ganon is pretty good on Wario, but Wario has some good combos too along with good speed and agility, unlike Ganon. I would just leave this as a -2 for Ganon.
Oh and nobody SDI's out of MK's uair because it's a frame 2 move, you can't react to it, you have plenty of time during Pikachu's chain-grab to prepare for the uair.
Even during MK's uair string, if he SL's you and you were trying to SDI the uair, you've just DI'd down and are begging to be gimped.
Edit: Does Pikachu have a guaranteed footstool even without the uair? If so I'd like to see the frame data for that.
I meant his uair string, not one uair. I dont see people SDIing out of it until at least the 3rd or 4th hit. Pikachu only needs to hit with uair once. Nothing to do with shuttle loop.
And yeah, I feel like aside from arrows (vksdfvsdkfvj), recovering against Pit would be kinda like RPS with Pit setting up for a nice gimp or getting one if he wins and Wolf getting back to the ledge otherwise.
