Maniclysane
Smash Lord
Just dtilt all day and you beat him. Obviously.
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
- Status
Lol that and Ftilt. With retreating delayed Fairs. :o
I admit, Sonic's not as easy to beat as he looks, but his entire game is baiting/trying to get inside. He does it worse than Wario.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Thanks DMG, your summary's in the OP.
Next week's discussion is DDD, for anyone who's wondering.
Next week's discussion is DDD, for anyone who's wondering.
socandrewcer
Smash Lord
i could star helping with summaries too if you like
Master Raven
Smash Master
Atomsk is vital for DDD info at this point. CO18 also has tons of good exp vs MK.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
QFT.
Can't wait for that.
Jupz
Smash Master
Yay DDD is next 
My 2 fave characters 
My 2 fave characters 
crifer
Smash Lord
BTW,
we the DK boards, have a new matchup Thread,
we discuss mk now and we would like to see your opinion on the matchup...
so come to our thread^^
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235788&page=3
we the DK boards, have a new matchup Thread,
we discuss mk now and we would like to see your opinion on the matchup...
so come to our thread^^
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235788&page=3
ADHD
Smash Hero
Diddy vs MK, 50:50.
First off, there are alot of theories about how mk should play this matchup. Such one as patience when he has his bananas out and being aggressive when he doesn't. It doesn't work, the next move mk does determines what's going to happen next, the playstyle you choose to fight diddy with is generally meaning-less. The matchup for mk is dependant on whether he is successful at approaching or not. Now being over-aggressive or overly-passive is bad, but everything in between is fine.
The reason this matchup is dead even (I will take you all down if you argue!) is because metaknight has no solid approaches on diddy and if the diddy player limits them to the best of his ability it makes the matchup incredibly difficult for mk to get in grabs or sword strikes. Diddy can punish practically everything OOS with a banana that mk has, such as ftilt, SH fair, glide attack, dsmash, you name it. I will say a basic rule: Don't ****ing tornado on the ground!
I primarily get alot of damage from tornado happy metaknights because diddy's shield in fact rarely ever gets shield poked if he aims it up by this move. It's more likely to break the shield rather than shield poke, it's very odd but useful in diddy's favor. However, the tornado can be good if he's coming back down to the ground.
Gimping. If you've ever played a good diddy as mk, you'll realize how hard it can be to gimp him when he's recovering. He just has so many options and mix-ups that you'll rarely ever get a low percent gimp, only a few minor damage from aerials. Although a falling nair from the edge will stump him from recovering directly below you. Just don't get side b grabbed offstage, if it doesn't result in you being footstooled to your doom, it will result in him getting a free pass back on-stage. If worst comes to worst, diddy will just charge his barrels from very far away. This prevents you from hitting him offstage, but you can try to time a shuttle loop or aerial to knock him out of his trajectory.
I suppose you all may think dair camping can be a good option. It isn't. Running shields in to approach and saving your shuttle loop OOS is a good option though however. But if the diddy catches on he can easily bait this and punish it. It's all dependant on the players really. Grab alot, it forces diddy in the air and where he is most vunerable in this matchup. Even so, diddy has options to evade your aerials. He can side b away from you, airdodge, reverse peanut gun, or fair.
It's very likely for the first match to be played on bf. The instant I am about to play a metaknight player in tourney I just say "Let's go bf." Because the stage striking system always goes down to that level. Good counterpicks are always anything from the top of your head that's copmletely homosexual. Rainbow cruise, brinstar, norfair, castle seige, etc. It's never a free win, but mostly always in your favor.
So yes, 50:50, it comes down to the players entirely. Jump cancel throws and glidetossing can be nifty to use but won't make the matchup any easier. Learning how to use bananas can be said the same way, it improves your speed vs diddy but the matchup remains the same: difficult for you.
Hope that's good.
First off, there are alot of theories about how mk should play this matchup. Such one as patience when he has his bananas out and being aggressive when he doesn't. It doesn't work, the next move mk does determines what's going to happen next, the playstyle you choose to fight diddy with is generally meaning-less. The matchup for mk is dependant on whether he is successful at approaching or not. Now being over-aggressive or overly-passive is bad, but everything in between is fine.
The reason this matchup is dead even (I will take you all down if you argue!) is because metaknight has no solid approaches on diddy and if the diddy player limits them to the best of his ability it makes the matchup incredibly difficult for mk to get in grabs or sword strikes. Diddy can punish practically everything OOS with a banana that mk has, such as ftilt, SH fair, glide attack, dsmash, you name it. I will say a basic rule: Don't ****ing tornado on the ground!
I primarily get alot of damage from tornado happy metaknights because diddy's shield in fact rarely ever gets shield poked if he aims it up by this move. It's more likely to break the shield rather than shield poke, it's very odd but useful in diddy's favor. However, the tornado can be good if he's coming back down to the ground.Gimping. If you've ever played a good diddy as mk, you'll realize how hard it can be to gimp him when he's recovering. He just has so many options and mix-ups that you'll rarely ever get a low percent gimp, only a few minor damage from aerials. Although a falling nair from the edge will stump him from recovering directly below you. Just don't get side b grabbed offstage, if it doesn't result in you being footstooled to your doom, it will result in him getting a free pass back on-stage. If worst comes to worst, diddy will just charge his barrels from very far away. This prevents you from hitting him offstage, but you can try to time a shuttle loop or aerial to knock him out of his trajectory.
I suppose you all may think dair camping can be a good option. It isn't. Running shields in to approach and saving your shuttle loop OOS is a good option though however. But if the diddy catches on he can easily bait this and punish it. It's all dependant on the players really. Grab alot, it forces diddy in the air and where he is most vunerable in this matchup. Even so, diddy has options to evade your aerials. He can side b away from you, airdodge, reverse peanut gun, or fair.
It's very likely for the first match to be played on bf. The instant I am about to play a metaknight player in tourney I just say "Let's go bf." Because the stage striking system always goes down to that level. Good counterpicks are always anything from the top of your head that's copmletely homosexual. Rainbow cruise, brinstar, norfair, castle seige, etc. It's never a free win, but mostly always in your favor.
So yes, 50:50, it comes down to the players entirely. Jump cancel throws and glidetossing can be nifty to use but won't make the matchup any easier. Learning how to use bananas can be said the same way, it improves your speed vs diddy but the matchup remains the same: difficult for you.
Hope that's good.
ADHD hit hard on a lot of aspects of that matchup:
Tornado is nearly useless except when Diddy has to land (almost like using Tornado on Snake, pretty useless unless you use it to hit him when he is falling.) Diddy has the running speed to punish tornado, even if you retreat it, and he can Glide toss OOS if you end it near him.
Dair camping is also fairly weak against Diddy except for the occasional edgeguard and when you are competing with him in the air (You Uair/Nair, he airdodges, you Dair to try and catch him, misses/hits, he jumps towards you and you Rising Dair).
Approaching Diddy is really hard for MK to do when Diddy has a banana in his hand. Air attacks will usually just be shielded fairly easy and then punished with a Glide toss, up or forward or even backwards. Ground attacks are also fairly easy to punish. Something to note however is that MK can use his tilts at near maximum range and fairly safely put pressure on him, although you have to be aware of what his options are too.
For example, let's say you hit Diddy's shield with Ftilt when he is pretty far away. If you do just the first hit of Ftilt, Diddy can't punish it unless he buffers a Toss (Not a glide toss, that adds a few frames to the execution) while he is in shield stun which is pretty hard to do if you did not predict the Ftilt far enough in advance. However, if you are literally near tip range of Ftilt, if Diddy does decide to Glide toss Backwards, he would move out of range for you to punish. However, the trade off for Diddy is that it will take loner for his Banana to reach you, giving you more time to PS even if you take a misstep and do another hit of Ftilt really fast. If you are close and you do Ftilt, you can time the second hit of Ftilt to hit him when he tried to toss a banana at you and stop him. Same for the third hit, however obviously if you guess wrong and do all 3 hits of Ftilt and he is still shielding, you are gonna get punished for it. If you stop after the first or second hit, he can only punish you again with a buffered toss, which you can punish him for doing with another hit of Ftilt. Basically, it comes down to whoever guesses right the most. I would give a slight edge to MK though in those situations, in that he is the one who can use his range to Ftilt/Dtilt and force Diddy to react to that, where as Diddy really can't do that.
Overall, I would give MK a slight edge in the matchup. It's fairly similar to the Wario matchup, you have to think outside the box a bit, rushing down usually isn't as effective as using your range to zone these characters better, and both characters are amazing at punishing MK when he makes a mistake which makes for a more level playing field.
55:45 overall, 60:40 on a few of MK's Counterpicks.
Also someone tell M2K to stop sucking vs Wario/playing bad lol. I'd rather not spend a month explaining to people that Wario doesn't actually counter MK just because they saw M2K lose to Fiction.
Tornado is nearly useless except when Diddy has to land (almost like using Tornado on Snake, pretty useless unless you use it to hit him when he is falling.) Diddy has the running speed to punish tornado, even if you retreat it, and he can Glide toss OOS if you end it near him.
Dair camping is also fairly weak against Diddy except for the occasional edgeguard and when you are competing with him in the air (You Uair/Nair, he airdodges, you Dair to try and catch him, misses/hits, he jumps towards you and you Rising Dair).
Approaching Diddy is really hard for MK to do when Diddy has a banana in his hand. Air attacks will usually just be shielded fairly easy and then punished with a Glide toss, up or forward or even backwards. Ground attacks are also fairly easy to punish. Something to note however is that MK can use his tilts at near maximum range and fairly safely put pressure on him, although you have to be aware of what his options are too.
For example, let's say you hit Diddy's shield with Ftilt when he is pretty far away. If you do just the first hit of Ftilt, Diddy can't punish it unless he buffers a Toss (Not a glide toss, that adds a few frames to the execution) while he is in shield stun which is pretty hard to do if you did not predict the Ftilt far enough in advance. However, if you are literally near tip range of Ftilt, if Diddy does decide to Glide toss Backwards, he would move out of range for you to punish. However, the trade off for Diddy is that it will take loner for his Banana to reach you, giving you more time to PS even if you take a misstep and do another hit of Ftilt really fast. If you are close and you do Ftilt, you can time the second hit of Ftilt to hit him when he tried to toss a banana at you and stop him. Same for the third hit, however obviously if you guess wrong and do all 3 hits of Ftilt and he is still shielding, you are gonna get punished for it. If you stop after the first or second hit, he can only punish you again with a buffered toss, which you can punish him for doing with another hit of Ftilt. Basically, it comes down to whoever guesses right the most. I would give a slight edge to MK though in those situations, in that he is the one who can use his range to Ftilt/Dtilt and force Diddy to react to that, where as Diddy really can't do that.
Overall, I would give MK a slight edge in the matchup. It's fairly similar to the Wario matchup, you have to think outside the box a bit, rushing down usually isn't as effective as using your range to zone these characters better, and both characters are amazing at punishing MK when he makes a mistake which makes for a more level playing field.
55:45 overall, 60:40 on a few of MK's Counterpicks.
Also someone tell M2K to stop sucking vs Wario/playing bad lol. I'd rather not spend a month explaining to people that Wario doesn't actually counter MK just because they saw M2K lose to Fiction.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Thanks a lot of for the summaries guys. I'm putting them up right now.
Week 5 - King Dedede
NEXT MATCH-UP
Week 5 - King Dedede
Tornado + Aerials > DDD
That is all
That is all
Master Raven
Smash Master
Guys, I'll post this chunk of info from Atomsk's blog on AIB:
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=17327
Okay first off, you want to stay on the ground a lot. The typical MK approach is sh fair. You easily can shield cancel grab it. Most of MKs approaches are unsafe vs DDD, EXPECIALLY TORNADO. Campier MKs will space tilts. Power shield these and punish them with B-throws. B-throw is extremly good in this match. Its generally good to keep b-throwing him until it starts to do 12%. At this point he should be around late 80s assuming you've hit him with other things lol. This is when you should start to try and either
A) D-throw mix up(will go into predicting these in a bit)
or
B) U-throw
U-throw is very good because a horrible position to be in this game is above someone. Sadly, using brawl+ tatics will work at 0% against most high/top tier characters the first few times you do it. Seibrik taught me this a while ago. At 0% its good to u-throw to u-air most of the top/high tier characters. You should be able to connect with some of another u-air if you do it right afterward. It also forces many characters to airdodge. If you watch in my match vs ADHD on Frigate, I get 2 kills off on him cause I U-throw him when he is at kill %.
When fighting aggresive MKs aka people like Dojo or DMBrandon, the matchup will generally revolve around being a tad more aggresive earlier on. A good approach to MKs or vs any character in general, is to run at them to sh bair. When they're near you and you feel unsafe you have 2 options besides rolling away, shielding, or sidestepping. You can u-tilt whenever you feel unsafe since it'll beat out most things, or you can full jump dair out of shield.
When fighting MKs that will camp you aka teh_spamerer, its much easier to force the MK players to approach you. Gain the % early on from a poke and simply walk away. MKs options aren't very good since mostly everything becomes predictable. Just wait for him to arieal or tilt, and power shield it and b-throw and run to the other side of the stage. Now I understand that this isn't the most entertaining thing to do, but its the most effective.
TORNADO
Tornado is seen as the major reason as to why MK wins vs DDD. However, once you learn to predict it, its a very easy move to punish. All of the moves I'm about to state will beat the tornado.
Suck from the top
You can pivot grab it
You can grab it when it first starts
All of your smashes will
Gordo will
F-tilt will cancel it when it first starts
Utilt will flat out beat it unless they space it
D-tilt will beat it
Fair from the top will
Dairing from the top onto the middle of it
Bair from the top will
JET HAMMER BEATS THE TORNADO
Nair from the top onto the middle will
However, even though all of those options will beat it, the safest one to do is to just angle your shield up as they tornado you and grab them once it's over. Your shield is amazing. Even when its a small circle it can stand up to the tornado. Also shielding 2/3s of the tornado then side stepping the rest of it is great cause its a free punish
D-throw
When you d-throw people, it generally depends on what the skill level of your opponent is as to how you should react to it. Scrubs will either always roll the same direction or get up attack.(I CAN BE WRONG, THEY CAN CHOOSE TO HAVE A BRAIN) Smarter players will tend to mix it up(obviously lol) so here is what i do. I d-throw dash shield. I watch expect them to roll away or get up attack, however I assume that they'll roll behind me too. So anticipating the roll, and reacting to the other options is the best thing IMO. If they try to just lay on the ground you can either Fsmash, Dash attack, or D-tilt. IMO those are the best options and they're what I hit with.
The match up in general is mostly about knowledge of MK and how the character plays. Most MKs when they f-smash your shield when your close will d-smash right after. Just f-tilt him out of it. When they try to d-smash multiple times while next to you just f-tilt or d-tilt them out of it.
D-smash is also very good for killing MK in this match. Since its range is very good, it will hit people trying to space tilts or fairs.
Suck is awesome in this match too. When forced to land on the ground you don't really have many options. However the best ones to do are the obvious airdodge down, bair before you hit the ground, Suck, or Dair. Those are DDDs only real options while landing. HOWEVER, JET HAMMER ACTUALLY IS GOOD. Jet hammer has a low hit box that is actually a good way to knock people away while trying to land. MKs often time will charge F-smash expecting you to airdodge down into it. Fall Jet hammer is very good against that lol.
This is the response I wrote to someone on smashboards who was having trouble in the match. Its actually 50/50. More people just need to put more time into learning how to fight the character rather than cry about him.
I'm pretty skeptical of this matchup being even at all but this is some good info on fighting him.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=17327
Okay first off, you want to stay on the ground a lot. The typical MK approach is sh fair. You easily can shield cancel grab it. Most of MKs approaches are unsafe vs DDD, EXPECIALLY TORNADO. Campier MKs will space tilts. Power shield these and punish them with B-throws. B-throw is extremly good in this match. Its generally good to keep b-throwing him until it starts to do 12%. At this point he should be around late 80s assuming you've hit him with other things lol. This is when you should start to try and either
A) D-throw mix up(will go into predicting these in a bit)
or
B) U-throw
U-throw is very good because a horrible position to be in this game is above someone. Sadly, using brawl+ tatics will work at 0% against most high/top tier characters the first few times you do it. Seibrik taught me this a while ago. At 0% its good to u-throw to u-air most of the top/high tier characters. You should be able to connect with some of another u-air if you do it right afterward. It also forces many characters to airdodge. If you watch in my match vs ADHD on Frigate, I get 2 kills off on him cause I U-throw him when he is at kill %.
When fighting aggresive MKs aka people like Dojo or DMBrandon, the matchup will generally revolve around being a tad more aggresive earlier on. A good approach to MKs or vs any character in general, is to run at them to sh bair. When they're near you and you feel unsafe you have 2 options besides rolling away, shielding, or sidestepping. You can u-tilt whenever you feel unsafe since it'll beat out most things, or you can full jump dair out of shield.
When fighting MKs that will camp you aka teh_spamerer, its much easier to force the MK players to approach you. Gain the % early on from a poke and simply walk away. MKs options aren't very good since mostly everything becomes predictable. Just wait for him to arieal or tilt, and power shield it and b-throw and run to the other side of the stage. Now I understand that this isn't the most entertaining thing to do, but its the most effective.
TORNADO
Tornado is seen as the major reason as to why MK wins vs DDD. However, once you learn to predict it, its a very easy move to punish. All of the moves I'm about to state will beat the tornado.
Suck from the top
You can pivot grab it
You can grab it when it first starts
All of your smashes will
Gordo will
F-tilt will cancel it when it first starts
Utilt will flat out beat it unless they space it
D-tilt will beat it
Fair from the top will
Dairing from the top onto the middle of it
Bair from the top will
JET HAMMER BEATS THE TORNADO
Nair from the top onto the middle will
However, even though all of those options will beat it, the safest one to do is to just angle your shield up as they tornado you and grab them once it's over. Your shield is amazing. Even when its a small circle it can stand up to the tornado. Also shielding 2/3s of the tornado then side stepping the rest of it is great cause its a free punish
D-throw
When you d-throw people, it generally depends on what the skill level of your opponent is as to how you should react to it. Scrubs will either always roll the same direction or get up attack.(I CAN BE WRONG, THEY CAN CHOOSE TO HAVE A BRAIN) Smarter players will tend to mix it up(obviously lol) so here is what i do. I d-throw dash shield. I watch expect them to roll away or get up attack, however I assume that they'll roll behind me too. So anticipating the roll, and reacting to the other options is the best thing IMO. If they try to just lay on the ground you can either Fsmash, Dash attack, or D-tilt. IMO those are the best options and they're what I hit with.
The match up in general is mostly about knowledge of MK and how the character plays. Most MKs when they f-smash your shield when your close will d-smash right after. Just f-tilt him out of it. When they try to d-smash multiple times while next to you just f-tilt or d-tilt them out of it.
D-smash is also very good for killing MK in this match. Since its range is very good, it will hit people trying to space tilts or fairs.
Suck is awesome in this match too. When forced to land on the ground you don't really have many options. However the best ones to do are the obvious airdodge down, bair before you hit the ground, Suck, or Dair. Those are DDDs only real options while landing. HOWEVER, JET HAMMER ACTUALLY IS GOOD. Jet hammer has a low hit box that is actually a good way to knock people away while trying to land. MKs often time will charge F-smash expecting you to airdodge down into it. Fall Jet hammer is very good against that lol.
This is the response I wrote to someone on smashboards who was having trouble in the match. Its actually 50/50. More people just need to put more time into learning how to fight the character rather than cry about him.
I'm pretty skeptical of this matchup being even at all but this is some good info on fighting him.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
That is just stupid and shouldn't come from a member of SBR...
DDD does actually do quite good against MK and the MU isn't that broken as people think, I'm going to post more this evening.
lain
Smash Master
Listen to what Atomsk says.
I (and probably CO) think it's even as well. DDD can do it.
I (and probably CO) think it's even as well. DDD can do it.
Jupz
Smash Master
Yay atomsk wrote that cause I was the one that needed help with the Matchup lol
Anyway yeah also we kill way earlier with utilt and dsmash (110's) then MK does overall as we are the heaviest with DI We also rack damage faster then you think with bthrow and tech chase.
lolAnyway yeah also we kill way earlier with utilt and dsmash (110's) then MK does overall as we are the heaviest with DI
We also rack damage faster then you think with bthrow and tech chase.I think Foursaken once said that MK dies from a fresh utilt at 100% even with DI. That seems accurate.
At lower percents, Waddle Dees usually hit MK if you toss them after a bthrow. This stops working around 60-70% though and it isn't that important, but it chips on a little damage and keeps the rest of your moves less stale. There's also the chance you could pull a Gordo, which is rare but nice.
I was going to do a writeup but then Atomsk pretty much summed everything up. I'll add more stuff if I think of it later.
At lower percents, Waddle Dees usually hit MK if you toss them after a bthrow. This stops working around 60-70% though and it isn't that important, but it chips on a little damage and keeps the rest of your moves less stale. There's also the chance you could pull a Gordo, which is rare but nice.
I was going to do a writeup but then Atomsk pretty much summed everything up. I'll add more stuff if I think of it later.
cutter
Smash Champion
Is this honestly the best you can come up with as an SBR member? You provide no insinuation of sarcasm or any other sign that this was a joke post otherwise, so I'll more than likely accept it as a serious post.
.Tero gets it.
It really makes me question if everyone in the SBR is a quality member that seriously cares about Brawl.
Jupz
Smash Master
Also, Dedede's B-air can beat out MK's F-air if you do one immediately after a jump, I kinda think of it as "exploding out with a bair". Our fair beats his although its slower... beware of U-air chains -> Tornado as that racks up heaps of damage, and I'm pretty sure our U-air and D-air outrange his D-air and U-air respectively. But MK's aerials are all much faster excluding our B-air and N-air. UP-B screws up our SH-Bair approach, and most of our aerials, so try to stay on the ground. There are several ways we can beat tornado as Gates said.
Just some extra info, please correct me if I'm wrong about anything
Just some extra info, please correct me if I'm wrong about anything
Yeah, Uair chains, occasional gimping, and Tornado are pretty much the only things I fear from MK. Other than that he's just not that threatening to me anymore. I can spotdodge dairs, shieldgrab poorly spaced retreating fairs, bair any aerial, and kill him after about 6 to 8 bthrows. I actually play this matchup more than MK dittos and I'd only switch back to MK if my opponent took me somewhere with lots of platforms (Battlefield) or maybe somewhere he could maneuver better than me (Rainbow Cruise?)
55:45 MK's favor, simply because MK has those random moments where, for lack of a better term, he just wins because he's MK.
55:45 MK's favor, simply because MK has those random moments where, for lack of a better term, he just wins because he's MK.
Man nobody gets my sarcasm :[ my mistake for not showing it enough. I'll post a little bit more later, gotta study for finals.
Nvm I'll write some stuff now.
As M2K likes to say, DDD can jump into Dair for a lot of situations, including tornado. So that's plus 1 for him. Obviously, Meta Uair chains to tornado is a lot of damage. Waddle throw is nice to just throw in there for some extra damage and/or keeping Meta's aerial approach at bay. MK needs to get DDD at higher percents to kill than DDD does Meta (Utilt, anyone?). It's hard to gimp either of them (multiple jumps, anyone?). Most of what needs to be said has been said, but I'd like to point out that considering how badly other characters do against Meta, DDD isn't a bad choice. I'll have to agree with around 55:45 in MK's favor. DDD outranges Meta a lot, and has some nice ways to stop MK's approaches, but, like Gates said, Metaknight is Metaknight.
I want to stress how amazing Dair is with DDD for those that don't know. It'll rack up damage on you really fast when combined with Bthrows if you aren't careful.
Nvm I'll write some stuff now.
As M2K likes to say, DDD can jump into Dair for a lot of situations, including tornado. So that's plus 1 for him. Obviously, Meta Uair chains to tornado is a lot of damage. Waddle throw is nice to just throw in there for some extra damage and/or keeping Meta's aerial approach at bay. MK needs to get DDD at higher percents to kill than DDD does Meta (Utilt, anyone?). It's hard to gimp either of them (multiple jumps, anyone?). Most of what needs to be said has been said, but I'd like to point out that considering how badly other characters do against Meta, DDD isn't a bad choice. I'll have to agree with around 55:45 in MK's favor. DDD outranges Meta a lot, and has some nice ways to stop MK's approaches, but, like Gates said, Metaknight is Metaknight.
I want to stress how amazing Dair is with DDD for those that don't know. It'll rack up damage on you really fast when combined with Bthrows if you aren't careful.
Jupz
Smash Master
LOL, I know what you mean Gates. Its like... Metaknight just takes control of himself to overcome human error and win the match
As far as gimping goes, MK can gimp Dedede, but he has to put in a lot of effort and Dedede has ways of getting around it. I like abusing upB super armor since if you angle it right MK is too slow in the air to follow it up with anything besides Drill Rush or Tornado, both of which leave him helpless, or maybe turning around/reverse Shuttle Loop and gliding, which is more dangerous for Dedede, but he can still survive a glide attack at high %.
I completely agree. The hitbox on dair is really big too, I think it might be from his waist to the tip of the hammer. And it occasionally autocancels. Dair is definitely his second best aerial.
Um, how?
Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant to say. Victory IS his destiny.Metaknight just takes control of himself to overcome human error and win the match
I swear this actually happens to me sometimes lol
I think this is 55:45 MK btw, pretty much what has already been said but I wouldn't go so far as to call it even because, while DDD does have tools to deal with tornado, that's only as an approach, it's still an amazing punishment move that you can camp and mindgame him into.
rocklee10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
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I was thinking because Meta can chain Dtilt D3 to high percents, but what good D3 would get caught right next to the wall? lol nvm
A1lion835
Smash Champion
Er...you seem to be in the middle of another matchup, but the kirby boards have just started to discuss mk. Please contribute to the discussion! The thread is here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395. The old rating of 55:45 your advantage is still our opinion, but it was a few months back since we discussed it and we'd like it if you could come help us with the discussion. All help is appreciated :D
I don't know the exact name for the technique, but it's something Ganons use with their Dair. Thunderfoot? It basically takes away all landing lag on DDD's Dair.
Tornado is a real hard problem for DDD.
He needs to shield it perfectly to punish the nado lag.
M2K said Dair beats Tornado before a long time.
Yes it does.
But the box where you can hit MK is like:
__________________---------__________________ top of the nado
this.
Tornado is way faster than DDDs airspeed, so MK can easily avoid the Dair hit by moving to the left or right a bit.
Good DDDs will try to stay on the bottom because tornado can be punished with good shielding and walking. Then DDD can punish the nado lag. DDD is really helpless in air, because there the tornado ***** him much more than on the bottom.
DDD needs to stay away from the edge. His recovery sucks and can be ***** by MK. If DDD got free stage space behind him he can use it very effectivly. (MK approaches, so DDD needs to go backwards a lot)
Maybe MK can outcamp DDD. Making a small amount of damage and then playing really deffensive.
I think the MU is 60:40 or 65:35.
He needs to shield it perfectly to punish the nado lag.
M2K said Dair beats Tornado before a long time.
Yes it does.
But the box where you can hit MK is like:
__________________---------__________________ top of the nado
this.
Tornado is way faster than DDDs airspeed, so MK can easily avoid the Dair hit by moving to the left or right a bit.
Good DDDs will try to stay on the bottom because tornado can be punished with good shielding and walking. Then DDD can punish the nado lag. DDD is really helpless in air, because there the tornado ***** him much more than on the bottom.
DDD needs to stay away from the edge. His recovery sucks and can be ***** by MK. If DDD got free stage space behind him he can use it very effectivly. (MK approaches, so DDD needs to go backwards a lot)
Maybe MK can outcamp DDD. Making a small amount of damage and then playing really deffensive.
I think the MU is 60:40 or 65:35.
Jupz
Smash Master
Its definately not that bad IMO, more like 55:45. Dedede has a much easier time killing because of the weight differences and kill moves. There are plenty of ways DDD can deal with tornado, as Gates pointed out before.
CO18
Smash Hero
I think its 6:4 tbh. If two EQUALLY skilled players with as much practice vs the opposing character as each other play, mk has the upper hand IMO. Most situations the d3 player for example will have way more matchup experience than the mk since mk's are much more frequent and is considered a bad matchup for D3 so D3's will make an effort to practice the matchup as well as they can.
I play Seibrik's mk basically every tournament whether winners Finals, Grand finals something and I used to beat his MK when he didn't know the matchup but now its the direct opposite and it's not exactly even and we're around the same skill. As long as the MK camps smartly its pretty hard because they can mix up nado which you can't punish at all times just by shielding then chasing with d3 then baiting your shield and running and dash grabbing you.
And also MK can easily avoid D3's kill moves as well, lots of times there won't be much of a difference in the percents the d3 or mk dies at because MK can easily avoid Up tilt, Bair etc and safely punish it. When I play Hrnut's MK he lives to like 160% very often because it's hard to land a kill move on Mk if they're smart.
Also Mk shouldn't exactly gimp D3 when recovering but if he's smart D3 should take a decent chunk of % each time when recovering to the stage trying to avoid the gimp, then sometimes you can randomly die or get knocked off too far to recover if they time their up+B right with yours or they predict you trying to cancel early and go straight for the ledge.
I play Seibrik's mk basically every tournament whether winners Finals, Grand finals something and I used to beat his MK when he didn't know the matchup but now its the direct opposite and it's not exactly even and we're around the same skill. As long as the MK camps smartly its pretty hard because they can mix up nado which you can't punish at all times just by shielding then chasing with d3 then baiting your shield and running and dash grabbing you.
And also MK can easily avoid D3's kill moves as well, lots of times there won't be much of a difference in the percents the d3 or mk dies at because MK can easily avoid Up tilt, Bair etc and safely punish it. When I play Hrnut's MK he lives to like 160% very often because it's hard to land a kill move on Mk if they're smart.
Also Mk shouldn't exactly gimp D3 when recovering but if he's smart D3 should take a decent chunk of % each time when recovering to the stage trying to avoid the gimp, then sometimes you can randomly die or get knocked off too far to recover if they time their up+B right with yours or they predict you trying to cancel early and go straight for the ledge.
Shadow 111
Smash Lord
are you completely forgetting that DDD can just up tilt the tornado? >_>
he doesn't have to shield it if he times the up tilt correctly
rocklee10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 452
I'd say 60:40, I mean, we do have the upper hand, but we don't dominate Kirby.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Here's some really good advice from Dojo on the DDD match-up that he posted in the MKBR. He gave me the OK to post it here:
Dojo. said:
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