Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[OverLade]

*in a hotel doing a driveby summary, will post something more coherent later*

I agree with CO18 for the most part but I believe what evens the matchup up a bit is D3's ability to tech chase Metaknight. Tech chasing translates to how smart a player is, so the amount of damage you can do with it is relative. I'd also go with about 60:40 or 55:45, no worse, simply because of the amount of Damage D3 can build up quickly if they take advantage of oppurtunities. Like Snake any grab is an oppurtunity to catch up damage wise. D3's Dtilt is the most likely option against a smart MK, and kills at about 120% near the edge of a stage without good DI.

I think D3 ***** MK's that don't space well and play catiously, because playing aggressive risk's trading hits. If you're getting shieldgrabbed often you're not playing the matchup right.

 

[Crizthakidd]

there are some matches where ur arials especially fair like against wario work well

not vs d3 -_- ur going to get tech chase dthrow or 16%ed backthrow lol
ddds spot dodge and shield a lot so wait for those, or grab and start getting him in the air.
stupid ddd will punish ur aggresive *** so once u get some nice dmg in and thrown him off start playing defense, bait waddles and ftilits.

at 110+ dont nado too much from far cuz ur going to get uptilited lol

 

[DMG]

Dedede's Utilt can knock you out of Tornado obviously, so if you suspect he will use it, just hover outside his range and then move back inside.

 

[Staco]

CO18 brings up an interesting point. Defensive MKs are a lot harder for Dedede to deal with.

Maybe MK can outcamp DDD. Making a small amount of damage and then playing really deffensive. <- Already told this.

I dont know how DDD should approach a very deffensive MK played like Spamerer vs. Anther.

DDD cant do much against it, since his projectile sucks and can be beaten from tornado started a half fd away from DDD.

One bad thing for DDD, its hard to punish MKs tornado with shielding only since DDD is so big.
MK can use and end the tornado very high in the air, so that the lag gets canceld. (if you end the tornado 2 mk heights about the bottom tornado lag gets canceld)
If MK spaces away before tornado ends he cant really get punished for the nado.
So tornado seems to be very safe if mk gets enough space behind him.
Tornado, then maybe wait for the utilt and punish it, go high with the nado and try to hit the DDD, if DDD shields/escapes/runs away from the tornado, space away and lag cancel the tornado. =/
The only thing DDD can do to avoid this scenario is making pressure at MK and doesnt let him free space behind him, which is really hard for DDD. And maybe he can land one Waddle Hit after every tornado, whichs really sucks. xD

Techcasing with DDD sucks. One backward tech with MK and DDD cant punish with any move (except waddle, which sucks).

 

[DMG]

Lolwhut?

Dedede can punish techs from MK, no matter what direction MK chooses to go. If Dedede runs full speed, he can run and regrab MK after he techs and rolls away.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah and we can also run full speed then dash attack if you roll backwards

 

[Affinity]

Yeah and we can also run full speed then dash attack if you roll backwards

Best trip in the game

 

[Jupz]

Yeah LOL the first time I did it to someone I though I tripped and did damage lol. Also if you pause the look on D3s face as he throws himself sideways is priceless lol

 

[Staco]

If you see the DDD directly running towards you just roll forward. =/
I think a normal 15% throw is better than a try to techcase.

 

[DMG]

If you see the DDD directly running towards you just roll forward. =/
I think a normal 15% throw is better than a try to techcase.

He can stop the run, turn around, grab. Sometimes he can just pivot grab while running too.

I agree that it's probably smarter overall to Bthrow for the guaranteed damage.

 

[ksizl4life]

I guess most of you have alot covered but ill help too. Sorry atomsk but im gonna let u guys in on a gay thing ddd has on mk.

if you get down grabbed be wary. if you dont do anything, you can get jab locked to dash attack and its extremely gay. atomsk's little secret.

anyways, i wrote a guide on how to beat atomsk 1 week before apex and yay it worked. a fool with a plan beats a genius with no plan.

something good ddd's like to do is fast fall towards the ground and immediately up tilt OR roll left or right and immediately up tilting. its gay and can work. PLZ dont fall for it.

OBVIOUSLY, if your gonna play to win your gonna need to tornado alot. this doesnt mean spam like a *******. spam smartly. if hes above you, keep counts of his jumps and tornado when hes falling. whats he gonna do? bair, dair, inhale? diar has like a 25 percent chance of going thorugh. bair has to be timed correctly and be fast. inhale has to be aimed properly. **** him with tornado. PLZ dont approach a ddd with tornado. youll get up tilted. if your tornadoing his shield, move out of there......AND MINDGAME HIS *** AND GO BACK TO HIM CUZ HELL PROBABLY START CHASING YOU (atomsk). if your on platforms, up air chains to nair then when both are flaling to the ground RIGHT BEFORE U HIT THE GROUND, start reving up the tornado.

something good i learned in mk vs ddd is double nair. well i saw plank do it in a vid vs atomsk. its extremely good unless the ddd has enough brains to power shield and fair you. nair his shield,, then nair immediately after his shield. it should be low. piewrce him with tornado.

i fair alot vs ddd, as you can see with my set with him at apex

the only grabs you should do vs ddd are down grab and forward grab. down grab to tornado is a good strategy but some ddd's like to DI away and up tilt the nado thats approaching. wait for his dumb head to calm down then proceed to touch him with nado. f grab then read his air dodge and nair, up air, dair, nado. anything youd like.

dont ever glide attack ddd when hes on stage. you will get punished for 12+ damage.

save your down smash for the end plz. every down smash that can connect can be a f tilt even though you wont be needing much of f tilt in this match.

d tilt him when he is approaching the ledge from off stage. it works trust me.

ddd's like to fair to the ledge repeatedly.dair him and proceed to gimp him by making mk go high and nair him when he reaches the top with his up b.

when ddd is hanging on the ledge, go next to him while on stage and start to tornado or shield. tornado is better for the damage. whats he gonna do? get up attack wont break it. whatever he does he will get hit. if your in shield u have many choices. if he rolls start charging down smash. if he gets up attakc, nair out of shield or down smash, etc.

if you ever get inhaled start pressing b. they usually like to follow up with an attack and wont expect a tornado so suddenly.

thats about it for now. ill give more when i get home but with thgis u guys better not lose to ddd. atomsk doesnt even use ddd vs me anymore. he uses mk. (Scared, Potter )

60:40 MK

 

[Tero.]

He can stop the run, turn around, grab. Sometimes he can just pivot grab while running too.

I agree that it's probably smarter overall to Bthrow for the guaranteed damage.

Most DDD's would probably Bthrow first anyway, unless the Bthrow is stale, then they would go for Dthrow techchasing.

 

[Plairnkk]

ddd is so easy to **** with MK loool

 

[OverLade]

If you see the DDD directly running towards you just roll forward. =/
I think a normal 15% throw is better than a try to techcase.

Most good Dedede players do two stuttered dashes, meaning that if you roll forward, you're going to get Dsmashed, which hits on both sides of Dedede, kills at 120% with perfect DI, and does a lot of damage if it doesnt.

Trust me when I say MK has no option that Dedede can't beat if he predicts/reacts properly.

 

[Affinity]

Thanks a lot for the contribution guys.


If anyone hasn't seen it in the OP yet, next week's match-up re-discussion, starting this Sunday, is going to be the MK ditto.

 

[Staco]

DSmash cant hit if you tech away from DDD.

KSizzl Said sth. about DTilt DDD, if he recovers to the edge. Yes, this works really good!
I often do this and it works very well. DDD gets a really bad recovery position, if the DTilts hits him.


MK Ditto Discussion will be very interesting since the MK players learned to get around the FTilt.

 

[FunkMaster]

quick question concerning bowser. People in this board don't think that bowser goes even or has the advantage against metaknight...........do they?

just wondering. The bowser board seems to think so, for all that's worth. Personally, I find it hard to imagine. Even with Bowser's aerial speed, Fortress, and supposed fire camping stuff, that still doesn't get rid of the fact that Metaknight is metaknight and bowser is a gigantic target and isn't metaknight. I don't think it's it like 30:70 but certainly don't think it's even.

Yes, I realize bowser isn't melee bowser but still. I think they might be overrating their character in this match-up just a LITTLE bit maybe? Hmmm?

I remember at one point the Fox boards had the meta/fox matchup 70:30 in FOX's FAVOR so maybe it's a board thing.

What do you think?

 

[etecoon]

bowser is at *at least* a 45:55 disadvantage to MK IMO, and it's probably more like 4:6 or worse.

 

[DMG]

Bowser has an interesting matchup with MK. Needless to say, he is still disadvantaged.

 

[Jupz]

Meta has the small advantage IMO, because of Bowsers excellent grab release options.

 

[Cloud9157]

Dunno if I missed it or what, but for Olimar, Nair beats Nado out. It isn't that tough to DI and use Nair to break Nado at all, pretty much eliminating it as a problem.

 

[Affinity]

Dunno if I missed it or what, but for Olimar, Nair beats Nado out. It isn't that tough to DI and use Nair to break Nado at all, pretty much eliminating it as a problem.

We haven't gotten to Olimar yet.

 

[Staco]

Maybe we should do 2 matchups in one week.
One interesting MU like Snake etc. and one MU vs. some of the lower tiers.

 

[judge!]

affinity u should try and come to MWC east!!!. also u going to genesis?

 

[OverLade]

IMO MK vs. Bowser would be even if MK didn't have tornado.

Affinity what matchup is next? Dedede seems to have been explained pretty well.

 

[Master Raven]

I REALLY would like to do Olimar soon because I hate that ****ing *** and am absolutely bad at that matchup, I don't know how to fight him properly -_-

 

[Affinity]

Affinity what matchup is next? Dedede seems to have been explained pretty well.

The MK mirror starts on Sunday.

 

[Gates]

IMO MK vs. Bowser would be even if MK didn't have tornado.

So would MK versus Dedede actually lol.

 

[Affinity]

affinity u should try and come to MWC east!!!. also u going to genesis?

Nope. I'm gonna be in Brazil visiting family.

Wish I could though

 

[Staco]

Maybe we should do 2 matchups in one week.
One interesting MU like Snake etc. and one MU vs. some of the lower tiers.

I dont think that we really need one week to discuss one tier.
This? :V

 

[Master Raven]

I don't think we should do that, 'cause I don't know how we'd be able to discuss two characters within the span of one week, especially since not many people want to bother learning how to beat ****ty characters anyway. I think a better idea is to discuss S tiers first, then A, then B and etc. We do want to discuss fighting the most popular good characters.

 

[OverLade]

The MK mirror starts on Sunday.

*slaps head* gocha.

So would MK versus Dedede actually lol.

Yeah I think ROB, Bowser, Dedede would be even if MK didn't have Nado.

 

[Gates]

Forget banning MK, we should just ban the tornado lol.

 

[Affinity]

NEXT MATCH-UP​

Week 6 - Meta Knight (Mirror)

 

[Jupz]

I haven't had too much experience in this matchup, but I like to use Ftilt a lot to punish the other MK. I also like to use UP-B OOS a lot. I think playing defensively is the way to go in this matchup, just depends on what the other person does a lot and notice patterns in their gameplay. Mix up your recoveries. Try to land outside of Dtilt range as well unless you're gonna land first to dtilt them.

 

[Staco]

I can say one main thing to this.
FTilt was the main move in this MU before some time.
Players got around the FTilt. So FTilt isnt the best move in this MU any more. The pro MK players now often dont get in situations to beeing hit by a ftilt.

More later.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Shuttle loop is more useable than F-tilt in the MK mirror match. You can also shuttle loop MK out of tornado. I find that staying grounded helps more in an MK ditto match than staying in the air. Air combat isn't as effective since you can't do the usual D-air to tornado much. However, once you get the enemy MK off the ground, F-air, etc would be good.
However, I'm bad at MK dittos, and I never tried playing grounded before, I always stayed in the air most of the time against MK dittos and I think that might of been my downfall. It's a continuous trial and error.

 

[smasher01]

if you recover with nado they cant up-b you. so if you think they are guna edge guard you with up-b just nado recover but they can just mindgame you and make you nado than hit you with a nair or uair,so dont get predictable

 

[Shadow 111]

edgeguarding is one of the most important aspects of the mk ditto at the highest level... any move one mk does can be countered by the other mk if done properly.....
if they forward b back to the ledge you dair. nair, or up b it
if they tornado back... you DAIR... NAIR.... or UP B (have to hit with the front tip of your up b) it....
if they up b back you can nair it with proper timing...
probably the most important way to edgeguard which i get most of the top mks with because it's just so simple... is reverse up bing them while they are gliding back to the stage... they cannot air dodge while they are in their glide... and they don't have time to cancel it and air dodge if you are quick about it.

following the other mk offstage and edgeguarding him is important in this matchup because even if you can't get the gimp off (which you most likely won't due to mks numerous recoveries and multiple jumps) you will rack up some damage... and you CAN gimp them by doing things such as stage spiking them.

grounded shuttle loop is very important in this matchup. any time the other mk approaches with you with tornado you can just use the invincibility frames and hit them right through the tornado.

grabs are another very important factor in this matchup. sometimes running over to the other mk and shielding will work because they'll f tilt or improperly space a retreating fair and you can get a grab in. d throw is the best throw to use because you can follow up with many different options.. you can chase them if you don't think they DI'd it upwards and get in another grab. if they do DI it upwards and attempt to dair you... wait for that dair, shield it and punish with an up air combo or a nair.

 

[Popertop]

how do you get around the ftilt?