Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Chuee]

Razer just owns.
Who has a pocket snake?

He does own.
but pointing him out as an example is silly.
He has set losses to gnes and went last hit game 3 vs ADHD. Clear example of snake being a diddy counter guiz

 

[Vinylic.]

Chibo should definitely give out his essay assignment about this right now.

He has most of it right. MK is banned.

Needs no reason when your looking at him on a monitor/television screen.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Razer just owns.
Who has a pocket snake?

I do, man. ;D

 

[BluePeachy100]

I have a pocket Snake. c:

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I have refuted them. Look harder. This time I'll post it again.

1. Planking is fixed by LGL. Simple as that. Make it very low if needed for MK.
2. Tourny results. The BIGGEST tournament possible (Apex) was won by falco. If that isn't solid evidence than you are kidding yourself. Btw he didn't come second either. Also iirc the year before that, snake won. Again the biggest tournament possible that hosts the best players in the nation. Normally I'd say 1 tourny doesn't mean much but when it is of this grand a scale it does. Also in a recent tourny with MK unbanned a Wario won. I wonder what you'll say if this apex, MK doesn't win either.

Also I said "most of the top players". So you are wrong. I never said all. I even mentioned one that didn't. Heck you read that post or at least claimed to. I don't think you are actually reading my posts at all at this point though.

Now if you think I'm wrong kindly refute the top 2 statements.

Obviously, I'm not an authority on the matter. But neither are you, again what's your point?

Those aren't my points with MK ban.

You still haven't backed your "most" top players comment at all nor have you explained why it should matter.

Ledge game is a tool that contributes to the problem. Stalling (hint, he doesn't need the ledge) is closer to the point.

As for your tournament results comment, I laughed. I honestly did. Believe me, I know when Larry won. It was ****ing amazing, but it doesn't support your point. I can cite specific results and claim that Pokemon Trainer and Luigi are the two best characters in the game. You ignore results like KTAR 6 where 6 of the top eight were MK. You ignore data like this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295425.

 

[Life]

I have a pocket almost everything. Doesn't really matter since I'm bad at all of them, but it's fun.

 

[CT Chia]

I finally JUST finished skimming this ENTIRE thread

took hours lol

at first i read every post carefully

but then i got tired of so many pages and kind of skimmed it finding important stuff

what kind of stuff do you guys wanna know, ask away any (serious) questions URC related

 

[DMG]

Diddy does not have hard counters. He has a few arguably soft counters though, and he definitely has soft counters on plenty of stages. Brinstar RC you can find a lot of characters that at least go even.

 

[Ripple]

Maybe you should read what I just said. Or perhaps I was the only person who took that in correct context... or perhaps not.

you're the only one who took it out of context. I was referring to diddy. it wasn't meant to be aimed at MK

 

[Life]

Chibo: Lux kind of touched on this, but how influential was the poll result in the final decision? 75% is pretty decisive, but do you think something like 65% or 55% would have still led to a ban?

 

[Alien Vision]

Today is a very good day. :>

I couldn't agree more! I am quite dubious about what can come of this. Now that MK is gone, many characters will be a bit more justified, since the rest of the top tiers aren't nearly--if not at all--as broken as MK.

 

[El Duderino]

I would support you on this if this exact scenario hasn't been done several times in the past with other fighting games.

That doesn't magically make it right though. Besides, we are not like other fighting games. To start with, we actually have the resources here to pull off a patch successfully.

The whole goal here is to keep the scene going strong for as long as possible. In the short term banning Meta Knight may be an adequate way to address the current complaints and issues, but it is far from a good long term solution. It is a massive trade-off bound to cause lots of unrest, not a real solution.

 

[BluePeachy100]

MK banned y?

 

[Beninator]

Allow Marth to now take top tier.

 

[Chuee]

Whos to say that snake player MAINS snake and the diddy is a pocket diddy? I used razer as an example because he beats gnes(2nd best diddy) at every event and the last time razer met ADHD(best diddy) he beat him twice(once in losers and once in winners). This was at WHOBO 3.

@ maining snake
not sure what you're talking about now.......
You're original post about this was talking about character/stage CPing. In which you said MK can't be CPed. CP is picking up characters to fight a character you struggle or w/e right? If so you mentioned snake as a character CP to diddy. So I'm not seeing what you're saying.

 

[Sharky]

MK banned y?

cause u booty

 

[Chuee]

cause u booty

nah u booty

 

[popsofctown]

If blind pick Random and get MK


What happens.

 

[John12346]

MK banned y?

It could be that MK has a moveset, recovery, zoning game, etc that far outclasses what the rest of the cast can offer,
Or the fact that MK has won upside of half of all tournament money in 2011 so far,
Or that we had to directly nerf him in our ruleset, then suggest a billion other ways to nerf him in order to keep him as an acceptable character,
Or that he doesn't have any disadvantageous matchups nor stages outside of FD, which he can strike and ban,
Or that he generally kills hype and 3/4s of the community wants him banned.

 

[Xyro77]

@ maining snake
not sure what you're talking about now.......
You're original post about this was talking about character/stage CPing. In which you said MK can't be CPed. CP is picking up characters to fight a character you struggle or w/e right? If so you mentioned snake as a character CP to diddy. So I'm not seeing what you're saying.

How is this hard to grasp?

Snake counters diddy(soft to hard, dont care).
Brinstar(among others) counters diddy(soft or hard, dont care).

Thus diddy can be CPed by character and stage. Thus diddy will not be banned.

its simple

 

[Vinylic.]

"come-- *phwap* *shink*"

"*tornado* *tornado* *block and tornado* *tornado*

*tornado*
*tornado block grab up boom come *phwap shink* HMMPH *SHANK* GAME"




That's MK for ya.

 

[_Yes!_]

UNITY OR DEATH

JOIN OR DIE

caps

 

[prOAPC]

somebody post it in shoryuken.com

 

[Xyro77]

If blind pick Random and get MK


What happens.

mk is not legal. so u random pick again.

 

[solecalibur]

I finally JUST finished skimming this ENTIRE thread

took hours lol

at first i read every post carefully

but then i got tired of so many pages and kind of skimmed it finding important stuff

what kind of stuff do you guys wanna know, ask away any (serious) questions URC related

what are your opinions on sleeper characters that will rise in tounrys that are normally put down by MK?

 

[BluePeachy100]

cause u booty

i'll **** u with falco let's go, noob

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo: Lux kind of touched on this, but how influential was the poll result in the final decision? 75% is pretty decisive, but do you think something like 65% or 55% would have still led to a ban?

It's hard to speak for everyone and their reasons, but I can provide some general insight + my own.

The primary info we had at our disposal was:
-Our own discussions amongst ourselves as the URC in our forum and weekly meetings
-The public polls held recently on SWF and AiB
-A summary of the BBR MK Discussion*
-Data, charts, and various findings made by the community (such as the charts John#s made, the statistical approach to MK (I think Tuen made it? sorry if I'm mistaken), anything like that)

* The BBR had a discussion about Meta Knight in general a few months ago split into different topics, and with approval I was able to summarize/prune them for the URC. I can not comment much on this as it was only authorized for the URC, and not the public. You can somewhat consider this as input from top players/minds, etc.

This isn't to say we haven't considered nothing else, because we certainly do. Most, if not all, of us read the public Unity Discussion Thread, see tournament results, attend tournaments, speak to various people on a person level, etc.

The public poll played a big part in the decision if it was a big point to the player. Each person in the URC was entitled to their vote and to base what they wanted on it. But lets be real here, 75% is a LARGE amount. It's the first poll to break the super majority barrier (66%), and reaching to a 3:1 ratio is fairly impressive. We also tallied up the results of the informal AiB poll with help from John#s which also came out to around 75/25 as well. The SWF poll was more important overall because of it's exposure, amount of voters, precautionary steps to prevent alt accounts, and keeping it hidden to avoid peer pressure.

Sorry it's vague, but I think that tells a lot.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

That doesn't magically make it right though. Besides, we are not like other fighting games. To start with, we actually have the resources here to pull off a patch successfully.

The whole goal here is to keep the scene going strong for as long as possible. In the short term banning Meta Knight may an adequate way to address the current complaints and issues, but it is far from a good long term solution. It is a massive trade-off, not a real solution.

Manually patching a game is considerably more work then banning the character outright. And it's not even about laziness, it's about doing what's healthy. ST Akuma, O. Sagat, and Hilda from Soul Calibur IV were banned because of how over-the-top powerful they were. The same thing is now being done to Metaknight, and you're suggesting that the community go out of its way to use a mod that people are already split on? That seems like more of a problem than outright banning.

And even if said patch were implemented, there would be more problems with trying to balance MK further because he would be under a constant microscope, being watched to find the slightest problem. It would continue, and more rules would be added to limit him, or more patches would have to be added, etc. Theorycraft, of course, but it's frighteningly feasible. A hard ban is the best solution.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Zmx, I'll be back for you. Going to eat for now.

 

[What's The Point]

what are your opinions on sleeper characters that will rise in tounrys that are normally put down by MK?

Non-existant. MK doesn't hard counter anyone, he just beats everyone equally as much per tier. Sleeper characters have other high tiers that "put them down".

 

[Ripple]

Non-existant. MK doesn't hard counter anyone, he just beats everyone equally as much per tier. Sleeper characters have other high tiers that "put them down".

TL doesn't

 

[Bizkit047]

If all trolls were like Gauss, then trolling would never really be a problem.

 

[Chuee]

How is this hard to grasp?

Snake counters diddy(soft to hard, dont care).
Brinstar(among others) counters diddy(soft or hard, dont care).

Thus diddy can be CPed by character and stage. Thus diddy will not be banned.

its simple

Uh, to clarify. Is character CPing to you picking up a character to fight said character, or just said character has bad MUs/stages so therefore he won't dominate.

 

[Nysyarc]

Non-existant. MK doesn't hard counter anyone, he just beats everyone equally as much per tier. Sleeper characters have other high tiers that "put them down".

Not saying it will necessarily lead to anything, but Meta Knight does in fact hard counter Ike and it is his worst match up by a fairly significant amount.

To clarify, with MK out of the picture, Ike's worst MU becomes a soft counter if you're pessimistic, namely Olimar.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Debating on whether I should actually answer posts in this thread.

i guess Ill do some short stuff.

1. Planking is fixed by LGL. Simple as that. Make it very low if needed for MK.
2. Tourny results. The BIGGEST tournament possible (Apex) was won by falco. If that isn't solid evidence than you are kidding yourself. Btw he didn't come second either. Also iirc the year before that, snake won. Again the biggest tournament possible that hosts the best players in the nation. Normally I'd say 1 tourny doesn't mean much but when it is of this grand a scale it does. Also in a recent tourny with MK unbanned a Wario won. I wonder what you'll say if this apex, MK doesn't win either.

Now if you think I'm wrong kindly refute the top 2 statements.

Dont mind if I do.
1. You are personally stating that its possible that mk would need a lgl thats lower than the rest of the cast. That alone is tantamount to admitting that Mk is an overpowered character in this game.
2. You are ignoring the LITERALLY hundreds of tournaments that mk wins. Every month, every year, every weekend, mk is making money to the point that it dwarfs what any one tourney win can pull. even apex. if falco wins 1 500 man tourney, but mk wins 50, 100 man tourneys both before and after that, you cant all of a sudden, negate the proof because of one occurance that doesnt even make up a tenth of the overall product.

salt mountains.

you shut the hell up.

how the hell do you even dare to let that crap come from your mouth. the last time I saw you. I was stomping out your fox with ganon in melee AND giving your metaknight the **** with my sonic in brawl. and you have the audacity to say that you dont respect me?! because I dont want to have to deal with broken bs that lets you get closer to beating me than you ever will or should otherwise? what a load of crap...

that's 4 people coming back to the scene and 1 person quitting because of the MK ban.

you mad anti-ban?

thats pretty much the same ratio as the banning pole. lol

Right now I'm happy Brinstar/RC are still legal. I know a ton of the community just picked up MK because they went the "if you can't beat them, join them" route. I even picked up MK to see if I could be good with him.
I'm really interested to how this'll be though, because we thought a lot of "what if" MK got banned.

this, Im really excited to see what competitive advantages stages like delfino give without mk around

 

[Xyro77]

Uh, to clarify. Is character CPing to you picking up a character to fight said character, or just said character has bad MUs/stages so therefore he won't dominate.

uh what.....................?

just know that diddy can be countered in multiple ways(by char/stage) and because of that he will never be banned.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Terran is imbalanced.

 

[t!MmY]

NO NO WAY

Why dont americans restrict ****ing stages?
before banning Character which restricts the players' action , you should ban stages whitch are TOO GOOD for MK
Current rulesets have advantages for Mk players too much, so you should change rulesets.

I talk about this at twitter, MANY Japanese players agreed my opinion.

I agree with this opinion as well.

 

[Ussi]

somebody post it in shoryuken.com

If you visited the site you would know AZ posted it there.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/meta-knight-is-banned.146754/

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

rofl just what i would expect from a joke ASS game...

get ***** brawl scrubs